Hafnia

He's a disgrace!, i'm sure it was accidental - ask Cech

Get Jose on....made for him. 5 live say TC is struggling....

You'd hope so Hafnia.

There lies the problem Louis, the word "hope" - it's associated with wanting something that is unlikely to happen.

I guess the chickens will come home to roost if this is true.

Would we be this bad with Jags or Arteta in the team? Unlikely, the other players would be embarrased by the clear difference in quality they possess so would up their work rate. The team is totally void of confidence and any characters within it to get them going, I got it wrong when I said we would be a better footballing team without Neville. Yobo's back pass before? Outrageous!

Lack leadership. Ability to pass, no one wants the ball, no one showing. Expect 5-0

I am sure our board will not have been sat on their hands in the time that this has been in deliberation, they will have a plan B,C probably D . Anyhow, watching the game, just seen number 3 go in from a team who you would back for relegation.

Said at start of season we were 3 injuries away from disaster, not that I thought it would happen, it did. At this level you have contingency, seems we don't do that.

oh dear

On radio they said loan deals <_< don't get too excited, prob see Alan Snmith...

Get him in the treatment room, remember how he used to get the jukebox to work....

At the current moment in time there isn't much to choose between Fellaini and Cahill in terms of performance, both are playing way below a standard you would expect from a top flight midfielder, thing is Tim has done it in the past for us, Fellaini is yet to put together a string of performances. The novelty value is wearing off with Felliani for a lot of hs most staunch supporters, in the pedestrian way he patrolled the midfield on Saturday, is there much surprise? He will no longer be able to hide behind goals and team wins, cos we ain't getting either.

to add felliani into that list is so harsh its untrue, sure people are split on the feli debate but to say he was as bad as a player who couldnt head or a player who spent the whole time here on the injurylist is down right idiotic and unfair. I know we paid over the odds for him but he still doesnt warrent a place on that list, a player who finishes joint top goal scorer in his first season with us, it just doesnt make sense to me.

Downright idiotic and unfair ? Blimey now that is harsh and rash. Especially when the point wasn't that he is poor, i have given my balanced opinion of him. The reason he is in there is that he is a bad value signing. 15million doesn't represent good value for what he gives. Top scorer? Cahil could have scored two headers from set pieces on saturday and i would still have said he was the worst player on the pitch. Cahills overall play was shocking. From a midfielder i expect the ability to control tempo of the game and boss their opponents, the goals are icing on the cake when overall play is adequate. The same applies throughout.

No Yakubu? strange, but if your argument is value for money, then maybe not.

Yeah the Yak is great even at £11m he is value for money, but it just goes to show how well Moyes has done in the market overall that he doesn't get in the list, there have been some poor value signings. Felli, VDM, Kroldrup, Wright, Beattie - which is fair enough.

A survey of 4,000 fans about what it costs to attend games (including stuff like train fares) creating an imaginary concept that the Independent has the sense to put in inverted commas .

That's what you meant by inflation?

 

Fair enough.

how sad, let it go....... you like me and many others post on this site when a game is up and running looking for freebie sites, you either don't go because of money reasons, responsibilities, or maybe you don't care, surely not! - reason..... cost of going to game?

You have a problem in that you post something that someone can disagree or disAprove OF. Get over it, there are other fans out there with access to www.google.com

Well.... ESPN were certainly adding their two bobs worth. Seemed like every time he touched the ball, there was a comment along the lines of 'He'll be looking to impress his prospective future employers' or 'You'd imagine that their will be plenty more appearances for him at Old Trafford in the future'.

 

What a load of shite!

when jack had a shot the camera panned to his uncle,name, details, blackpool etc, he was hidden away in some old trafford snug - hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I suppose when you read some of my posts I harp on about how we need money. I guess realistically one of the reasdons we need it is that we are able to pay for 'proven' world stage performers and that comes at a price. I don't blame anyone for Fellaini as such, however maybe the reason we signed him was that we never quite had the extra spondoolies to get Moutinho. There is no magical way to know whether someone will fit in the premier league - for every Essien there is a Veron, for every Vidic there is a Kroldrup.

Pro's and Cons Fellaini:

Pro's: Young and time to develop, Great in the air, first touch, combative, get's in good positions around the box.

Cons: Slow, gives away too many fouls, needs to make more killer passes, can disappear from the game, don't know best position

Top ten signing? Here's mine in order based on importance and value for money:

1. Arteta

2. Saha (based on assumption was free - most technically gifted player we have IMO)

3. Jagielka

4. Pienaar

5. Cahill

6. Howard

7. Lescott

8. Neville

9. Baines

10 Yobo

This is the problem I have. You open up with "facts" like that and lose all credibility imo.

 

Annual inflation has been running roughly between 1.3% and 2.3% this decade so that, if applied to the £46.5m turnover (in 02/03) it would have accounted for an increase to just over £50m last year when in fact we turned over just short of £80m. So inflation has had a relatively minor part to play. Certainly not "a lot."

 

I don't understand the point in saying it. I'm not for a minute suggesting that the rise has been down to Bill's boardroom brilliance, it's down to many factors (as you rightly pointed out), but inflation certainly isn't a biggie .

Maybe a learning on my part to be more specific about the inflation I was referring to. However to protect my credibility - which should be in tact regardless - here is some reading.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/fans-concerned-over-football-inflation-1764258.html

I'm not into point scoring, but I do like to back up my posts with facts given the scrutiny (rightly so) they will receive.

anyhows COYB!!!

Yes we all know the club has massive debts, along with just about every other club in the Prem, but the fact remains the club has nearly tripled its turnover in the past few years so I cant see your point there

 

You complain that the shirt sponsorship is not as big as the likes of The Shite Man City and Arsenal, well get real that was never going to happen its still the best deal the club has ever done

 

As for Kitbag yes I also think that was a good deal and so yes I do beleive it is a success story seeing as though its the biggest deal in the clubs history

 

I see all of these things as a move in the right direction yet you just want to knock it so what would you suggest is the way ahead?

 

,

Not to insult, I just think you have set your sights lower than I have. I'm not about knocking the club, i'm merely putting your commercial victories in perspective, the glaring ommision on your point about shirt sponsors was Fulham - twice the amount we get. The kitbag deal was hardly deal of the century - as I say a struggling Man City got a similar Le Coq Sportif deal. The turnover was primarily down to the success on the pitch and player sales - not down to commercial activity, which was the original part of my point.

"i think you miss a lot of the fear we have. its not a case of wanting success now, im scared of losing the club completely. we are in massive debt, people always say not as much as the big boys, but they bring in a lot more cash to cover them. we are on the brink! we have sold everything we own apart from GP (and bellefield but with no PP we wont sell it to anybody)

i just want someone to come in who can stabilise the club, not arsed about buying all the worlds stars, just let us run from scratch again, that would give us a transfer budget of £15m+ each summer. maybe even buy back finch farm. but just to make us safe is priority number one for me."

 

For me this is the casing point for all those fans that are against Kenwright as Chairman rather than as a person. I dont care about a billionaire owner coming in and buying us the ROnaldos and Messis of this world, I just want the club to be safe from going under as well as a few million each year for Moyes to buy a couple of players but MORE IMPORTANTLY not so we have to sell anyone to get the funds. It may have started with Lescott this summer, but we keep going the way we are then itl be Rodwell in January with the likes of Pienaar, Mikky, Jags etc going next year. Sooner or later it will be Moyes jumping ship and we will be back were we started under the reign of PJ. I fear that if Kenwright doesnt leave or find funds soon then all the progress he and Moyes have made in the last few years will be undone...

You speak for me there.

If J.R Ewing came offering you good money for your back garden - you wouldn't sell - you know that he will strike oil and the subtsantial money he gave you would appear to be pennies. That's how I feel about selling our potential talent. They know he's gonna be a star. £20m, £30m, £40m could appear to be small change for this lad one day, the only way you would sell is if he was destined to be a similar player to Phil Neville - he's already better...

Record turn over every year( its tripled since the days of PJ), new state of the art training ground, the biggest shirt sponsorship in the clubs history, the biggest commercial deal in the clubs history(kitbag), the 2 new club shops and last but not least getting Tesco & Knowsley to stump up for our new ground

 

Oh and who do you think appointed Moyes and who stuck by him when most people were calling for his head?

I'll do this in stages:

1.

Record turnover every year??? You would like to think so, inflation has a lot to do with that. In the words of Bill after anouncing record turnover: "Our debt is a big debt and a worrying debt, but it is manageable because of our performance on the field and because we do well each year as a business, thanks to David (Moyes). But it is too much debt that every year is going to be added to" "Every summer it's the same problem. David must think 'every summer, how can I do it?'. He must be sitting there looking at these figures thinking 'they have given me nothing again and they want the Champions League'. "But we do manage to sustain the debt. We have a good bank and we have had to go to them again this summer. All we can do is borrow and that's what we are doing again this year to give David not nearly enough money to take a club that's finished fifth in the last two seasons even higher.

2.

Finch Farm was acquired in 2006 by Everton who later sold the land on for £2.1 million and then had it developed to the club’s specification by developers ROM Capital (an arm of the aAim Group). On completion, Finch Farm was valued by ROM Capital at £17 M. Everton signed a 50-year tenancy agreement with ROM Capital for Finch Farm.[2] Everton have an option to purchase the site after 5 years. So we are renting somewhere whilst we are lumbered with the problematic site in Bellefield which can not be built on.

3. Biggest shirt sponsorship in the clubs history - £2m a year. Let's put that into perspective... Liverpool have signed one worth £20m a year with Standard Chartered, Man City and Spurs and Arsenal more than double what we are on £5m a year, Fulham receive £4m a year from LG.

4. Kitbag haver the rights to sell our kit which is estimated at £3m a year. Based on the fact that it is Le Coq Sportif, I can't see your neutral fan clamouring for it ala Nike/Adidas. The deal we got from Le Coq Sportif was not much better than the one Man City had with them when they were struggling in the league. Before they went to Reebok. Again - is it a success story???

I think I won't even get onto the club shops and knowsley stadium move as I am now suitably depressed.

So where do you get this impression that it's 'us v them' in the Everton backroom, Moyes and his players versus the 'power suits', the former struggling endlessly to overcome the obstacles put in their way by their masters? Is that really how you think it is? Hasn't Moyes himself come out and said what a great, supportive chairman Kenwright is, how his relationship with his boss has been one of the major factors in him staying at Everton and in the team's rise up the Premier League? Do you suddenly not trust 'magician' Moyes's point of view on that, or do you just conveniently chose to forget that your idol is one of Kenwright's most vocal supporters at the club, and happens to be the manager? All this 'in spite of Kenwright' stuff is nonsense - give me one concrete example where a decision Kenwright has taken has seriously damaged the progress of the club on the pitch, instead of talking vaguely about murky goings on behind the scenes.

Where did I say that it is us v them in terms of players/coaching staff versus powersuits? Must have been where you read the financials....

Christ - most of those responses make me really depressed to be an Everton fan, I couldn't agree less with the majority of them and the sheer pigheaded tone of them makes me genuinely angry. There's lots of talk about Maddock's 'lack of research', but then all sorts of people making totally unsubstantiated claims about levels of debt, club being 'technically insolvent', 'two thirds of prem teams being in a better financial state than us' - one joker even says something along the lines of 'you should read the Everton forums to see the truth of why we're so angry with Kenwright', as if all the overinflated opinion spouted on places like this should be taken as gospel!

 

And yeah, before anyone starts, this is just my opinion, but if i'm really in a minority among blues (which now appears i am) in thinking Kenwright hasn't done a bad job for the club, then bollox to you, i'm gonna shout even louder. I've said I'm against Kirkby and agree with the criticism of Kenwirght for that, BUT if you can't see the connection between the steady, stable, gradual if unspectacular progress the club has made behind the scenes under Kenwright with the undoubted over-achieving it has done on the pitch under Moyes, quite frankly you don't know what you're talking about

Unspectacular progress behind the scenes? I think the amount of chief execs we have had in recent years points to something very spectacular behind the scenes - of which we do not know about. The steady progress you refer to is Moyes successful dealings in the bargain basement with success owing to a team spirit that at times has been built on a siege mentality. I can't see anything that has gone on from a commercial aspect that has made me think that anyone else is due plaudits. So if you know commercially what I do not know, please enlighten me. Again to repeat many a blue's opinion, the progress has been made in spite of, not because of Kenwright and co.

When players such as Arteta comment on the 'family' aspect of the club, again surely that is credit to Moyes, the backroom staff and the players, unless Mikel has a masters degree in econometrics and has been doing his bit to help out the guys in power suits who spend their days working out how to make our club profitable without sacrificing playing staff.

Can't believe the lad has his own thread and some comments are uncomplimentary, he will have big shoulders after coming through games against Benfica etc when in all honesty he should be getting last 20 against Hull etc. Some of the comments aren't fair at all.

Let's hope that the lad makes it as a rock steady prem player, he has already done something for us that Rooney never managed, score against Liverpool. I can't see him making the £20m bracket, but neither would John O'Shea - yet he get's plenty of games for united without being anything other than steady. We seem to have a habit of building some youngsters up and then being almost ungrateful when they don't look like making it. That is down to the fact that we are highly unlikely to buy a world class player at the going rate - so all our hopes are down to developing one (who will no doubt be sold on the drip to buy some utility players)

Cor blimey Mr Maddock!!! Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water!!! Some of the fans comments fly right back at him with more questions, this I like!

I don't think I have ever seen a chairman attract so much attention for the magician like ways the club manager has managed to run a football club on a shoe string. It's almost like Andrew Ridgley getting the rights to Careless Whisper.

Please let this be a resounding no. Yes we need a way to generate more match day revenue, not this way.

I'm on the fence when it comes to Kenwright. Sometimes I'm in 'BK out' mode other times I'm in a 'better the devil you know' type mode.

But as someone said earlier a billionaire coming in to buy us is NO guarantee of success, especially now with a few clubs having already been taken over. Of course if more and more clubs do get taken over then there is a growing possibility of EFC being left behind.

On the other hand if (and its a big IF) if Everton can somehow gain some sort of success without going down the billionaire route IMAGINE how more satisfying that would be.

It would be satisfying as it is highly unlikely. I think the logistics work against it happening.

To be successful, your team needs to have better components - the better the components, the better the team which is ultimately the players. The best players will want to be reimbursed according to their ability. If you were better than your opponent and he was earning twice as much as you - would you be satisfied? Nope. You will want the same money at the very least, we have a wage structure that would barely accomodate players such as John O'Shea - would we win the title with 11 John O'sheas?

When players prove themselves to be better than their peers they will look to be rewarded, would you sign a 5 year deal for a team knowing that they are going to sell their best players when the top spenders come knocking? - not if you are ambitous.

Fact is, with our debts, income, and current expenditure we are not in a position to compete for the best players, we have had to rely on some canny transfer dealings, and when these players are revealed as bargains, your Man City's will come knocking ala Lescott and now apparently Pienaar. We are in a constant battle to keep the wolf from the door. Very depressing.

I would sooner take the chance on a billionaire not following through on all promises than exist with the current excuses from a chairman who loves the club. What have we got to lose?

In 4 years all our flagship players (Arteta, Jags, Pienaar, Cahill, Howard, etc) will be approaching the age where they are looking at their last contract - which means that their sell on value will be negligible - at peak that is somewhere in the region of £70m pounds worth of footballer. An average net spend of £4m a year will contribute £16m to replace that lot - highly unlikely. My guess is that they will be sold before it get's to that stage as we can't afford to run them into retiremnt so to speak.