Hafnia

Hmmmm so Everton Football Club never got any stronger from the sales of Rooney & Lescott?

No, in a word. If selling someone who is currenly worth in the region of £60-£70m for £10m up front with £10m in installments plus add ons depending on their success represents strength, then to repeat the act several years later only to use that money as the sole means of transfer activity after finishing 5th and a cup final, then strength is not what I would call it.

Given we have acheived way more than can be expected in the league with very little outlay, with very little left to spend (with no assets - discussed in main article)do you think we are strong? I don't. We are in a very vulnerable position indeed, the only way out of this is money - Kenwright doesn't have any, we need someone who has. History has a way of repeating itself, who's next? Rodwell, Arteta, Jags???

Did West Ham end up strong after selling Ferdinand, Lampard, Cole, Carrick, Reo Coker?

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/article-23674062-harry-redknapp-slams-hammers-for-selling-home-grown-stars.do

Again history has a way of repeating itself, the more that the Kenwright topic rears it's head, the more I find myself repeating. Sod it, let's be a feeder club and hope for the odd Wembley semi final eh...

Never before has the need for finance been so crucial in recruiting the best players in the world. And never before have we been so far behind in terms of recruiting top talent. If it's not the fee it's wages, if it's not the wages it's none champions league football. And we can not provide this without real investment in the playing staff. I don't know any empire or industry that has gained strength from selling their key assets, nor do i know any industry that improves by having someone who admits having no business brain as chairman. It's almost like playing monopoly, selling your assets to the player who needs them so they can start building houses and hotels, you are not going to win. We need to land on free parking, get all the lovely free cash in the middle, and laugh at the other players when they make silly cash offers. I can see bill landing on free parking after he has sold park lane and mayfair i'm afraid.

http://www.sos1878.co.uk/everton-news/kenwright-media-love-in-continues/

 

 

A response.

i like the fact that the poster had read this thread, especially as they used my nil satis closing piece. I would like to say it was me on sos but it wasn't. It is important that we as fans question any grey areas going on in this club. Once exposed to lying or otherwise, you can expect the following outcry to deter any further mismanagement or lies. Our story of recent years has been similar to brawn in f1, the good fortune will ultimately run out once a need for cash surpasses the success we have enjoyed due to our competitors missing a trick or two. A net spend of 4 million per year really does send alarming signals.

Here is a piece by a blue who replied to his article:

In fairness to the radio caller, Bill Kenwright should leave the club soon but not because of his lack (in comparison to other club owners) of money. He simple has nothing to offer the club any more. The people who has he brought to the board in Robert Earl and Jon Woods also don't seem to offer much other than bums on seats at the AGM.

 

He was on the board when Everton missed the boat when selling shares to Premium TV (NTL subsidiary) but spent the money on players anyway. He's also been Chairman during several high profile errors. Alex Nyarko signed a 5 year deal despite holding a 4 year work permit meaning Everton paid almost £1million in wages for a player we couldn't even play. He fell out with a director who offered to move Everton to a city centre 55,000 capacity stadium. He took a loan out for £30million to consolidate debts which will cost £69million to pay back - Everton spend over £2million a year on this. Since 2002, we've spent £17million on interest and only £4m from the initial money borrowed.

 

He has overseen the sale of the Eileen Craven site, seemingly mortgaged training facility Bellefield and used Goodison park as collateral against the £30million loan. He mislead shareholders over a loan from Singer & Friedlander and told them it was an "advance from sky". He gave the impression that he had employed someone to find a buyer for the club ("Keith Harris is out there looking for me"), he hadn't. He also oversaw the sale and lease back of the Finch Farm training facilities.

 

He has not even given a reason why Keith Wyness resigned. I don't want to mention the Fortress Sports Fund debacle, I think they ended up investing in dog food in Eastern Europe.

 

The club's debt is at it's highest level since the sale of Rooney, we have secured the mortgage against next season's television money, this month took on another loan from Investec.

 

He obviously cares for the club and is popular with the older generation of fans, but I think he is inhibiting the long-term ambitions. If the Kirkby stadium relocation collapses I can't see him being involved with the club this time next year. Some fans who oppose the stadium in Kirkby attended a Public Inquiry and gave evidence against the plans because they feel it's simply not in the club's best interests.

 

Put simply, over the past decade but has made too many mistakes. He does however, deserve much praise and gratitude for employing David Moyes.

 

eek, it seems we have people armed with more info than the journo's, tin hats on Bill!!!

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/football-banter/2009/02/why-david-moyes-not-guus-hiddi.html#comments

it's clear that the man thinks we should be grateful for what we have, know our place, shut up and let the press decide what is right for the club and state where sit amongst the elite.

In the article attached he suggests Moyes would be the ideal manager for Chelsea, really? "But Mr Maddock, we want Moyes to have a crack at managing our club with some money to spend??? - can we keep him please?, and whilst you are there can you not publish any stories saying that Man Utd are the ideal club for Jack Rodwell to continue his development, we don't want other clubs to think we are there just to supply them with future talent"

The article above clearly shows the detachment between fleet street journo's and the true fan. Yes some true fans are prepared to stick with Bill, fine. I'm not. It's got to the state now that journo's see our fans as ever loyal, happy go lucky, comically ambitious. The only solution to this is to get some serious investment and wipe the sarcastic smiles off their faces, maybe we will even get more than 2 mins on match of the day.

Nil satis nisi optimum is not just a nice latin banner, it is what we should expect, and no journalist has the right to tell us otherwise.

Gosling should be ineligible for criticism. He is 19 years of age, no international experience and should not be needed to be deployed by a premier league club, we paid £1.5m or so for him so it's a case of let's see if he can make it, I don't think he can, but being played in a team with no confidence is hanging him out to dry. Jo has international experience playing for Brazil! Was top scorer in russian league etc etc, swapping shirts at half time against Benfica showed his professionalism and commitment.

Blame the manager, blame the board, blame the players who know better, don't blame youngsters who have had to come in to a decimated team. Who knows, he may have become a good player, still may become one, but this will do his confidence no good, he shouldn't be out there playing in front of a poor right back.

Outlined on CH5 how our centre halves are stepping into the man who in turn lays off ball into the space they vacated. To be honest we need replacements for these players: Yobo, Hibbert, Fellaini. Distin will prosper with Jaqs next to him, Benfica are a very good team however.

Catch 22.

How can we get champs league when we sell our best players to the teams vying for top spot? How can you attract top players to your ambitions when your ambitions are funded by selling the best players? How can you keep your best players when those around you will pay more?

The answer these days is cash cash and more cash. I am happy with what I see at pitch level, I'm not happy with what our manager is expected to develop our squad on, that is what the board are meant to sort out, they ain't so get them gone before more of the family silver is sold.

I've about managed to keep the mindset that we are a big club, however if continually exposed to debates about how much we will sell our best players to 'bigger?!' clubs, that mindset will challenged.

We are a big, we are able to keep players happy to a point. That point arrives when we are exposed at being financially weak. Do Liverpool fans discuss how much they will sell Torres for, or do they think ooooh let's sell Gerrard for £100m. They don't, because they realise that the asset is best deployed on the pitch, look at what has happened to them since Alonso's sale.

Let's stop even contemplating that the sale of players that we should be building a team around is something we have to do. We will never win trophies with that mentality, The mentality we need to adopt is that we have the foundations of a good team, to build on that we need money, do we get money from our board? No! - Get a board in that will do that and stop relying on Moyes being a track suit version of Derrick Trotter.

I said a while ago, that under Kenwrights stewardship we are vulnerable to the supposed Big clubs coming in to get Jack. This is not a direct criticism of Kenwright, it is pointing out the fact that money talks, and we haven't got any. We need a big backer otherwise we may as well get used to mid table mediocrity.

With financial backing we have the ability to reject bids and give contracts to players that they would be worth. If we had Ronaldo would we have got £80m off Madrid? Nope, probably less than half that amount.

The transfer market is a game of poker to a large extent, and everyone can see our hand and know our play at the moment.

Selling Rodwell would be worse than selling Rooney, Rooney needed to be sold to stop the club going under. We do not need to sell at the moment, it's just that our main source of vast income is selling players.

If united sold Scholes, Beckham, Gary Neville, Giggs to the highest bidder when they were still under 20 would they have won what they won? No chance. If Liverpool sold Gerrard for £40m to Chelsea, would what they spent the next £40m on in transfers replace gerrards impact for Liverpool, no chance. Let's get out of the mind set that we need to sell to strengthen our team. Yes it's nice to make money and to buy players, not at the expense of potential world class home grown talent.

We need to add quality as well as numbers, would he get first team spot? Not really, we are in need of getting a midfielder in who can play alongside arteta in a central 2 man partnership, in the longrun Rodwell is the lad to do that but we need to allow him to develop without the need to put such pressure on his shoulders.

save the £4m, get another £12m and look at moutinho or velosso, the likes of cahill and fellaini aren't first names on sheet for me so any more players need to be better than those two.

In the summer transfer window I was unhappy at how funds were used/made available (well funds all being one quality player leaving) and I said we were 2-3 further injuries away from disaster, well here it is unfolding in front of our very eyes.

Expecting us to get results at the moment is totally unrealistic, bad luck yes we have had, but we already had a weak squad at the start of the season. If we told the rest of the league, hold off till Jags, Arteta and Yak are back fully fit then that would be a starting point.

We have rode our luck with a weak squad for some time now. I can't imagine what the confidence of Gosling and Rodwell is at the moment. Bad times, we have relatively easy fixtures thus far and we ain't done great, what's the next few weeks got in store... Just really have got to hope for an investor to plough some serious cash into this club.

Your a miserable bastard. I cant be arsed with the complete lack of belief and understanding anongst Evertonians

My belief and understanding is that we do not have the financial resources to compete at the level we believe we should be performing at. Miserable, not at all, I enjoy being an Evertonian, I am prgmatic, I see the problem further back than what is evident on the field. That problem off the field will in my opinion force our manager to take the next serious job offer he receives. Then let's see who can perform miracles on uncle Bill's loose change then.

Moyes will not have enjoyed the fact he was forced to play 3 youth players tonight in that match (Jack needs 2 weeks in the sun), I have said time and time again we are 2-3 first team player injuries away from disaster and people think we are the victims of bad luck - yes we are in terms of the nature of the injuries (knee etc) but in terms of volume to other teams here we are:-

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php

I honestly believe Moyes will get to breaking point soon with having to fight with one hand behind his back, let's face it, we all know that we are not going to do top 5 this season, Moyes will be fully justified in seekng a new challenge that will provide him with the funds to have a crack at the big 4 (or now 6.

Big hearts and character would not have got a result against Benfica tonight, a squad with strength in depth would. And in all honesty if I see that 1970's Harlem Globetrotter of a footballer in our midfield again it will be too soon, his lack of mobilty and work ethic is a disgrace, £15m down the pan there.

Jo's just had a nice little leg over apparently.

commentators should stick to subuteo, they are getin a little excited cos it's benfica, you would think it's brazil, yet more patronising drivvle off people who still think we are the dogs of war.

i see what your saying.

but Elstone did say that none of the current board have invested any of their money in the club. BK is one of the current board. he cant be criticised for not having the money, but he cant be praised too.

That is my whole feeling, sentiments run deep when you are a fan but they musn't remain - we need to address what is the next step for the club to move on so that we can enjoy our success.

Would we have a team of Kilbanes because they are honest and have their hearts in the right place? So why have the same attitude to members of the board, I would much rather have a tyrant in the board room who isn't a fan but demands the best in all areas and is a hard faced winner, someone who can see what is required to make the changes needed and have the finances to make that happen - both on and off the pitch.

I have had the nice feeling of seeing an Everton (once a blue always a blue) player scoring the odd winner against Man Utd or Arsenal, and a chairman telling the BBC how great we are. I want to see the tangible results in terms of silverware and I want other teams to hate us, i'm done with the patronising respect issued from ex red Sh&^e players on the beeb just cos we continue to punch above our weight.

That's almost dreamworthy, let's see if Blue Bill struggles to get investors if we were able to get that...

4-5-1 is for teams who have a high qulity midfield, one that is able to operate intelligently, knowing when to push up and support striker, having composure to keep ball and play around teams. Arsenal for example,

We can do a 4-5-1 when we have Areta, Pienaar, Rodwell, Billy and either Cahill or Fellani being able to bomb on. Without the composure of the previously mentioned 3, Cahill and Fellaini lack in their contribution and we become hoof up the field merchants from the back.

I said it many posts ago, these performances were on the horizon due to the lack of funding = lack of (quality) squad depth, we should not be reliant on a lad of 18 going through a steep learning curve.

Let's just hope we can get to new year in some sort of reasonable shape, we are in need of the injured players to return (full fitness) and we need more additions. Billy looks like he will become a great player for us, nice feet, composed, good vision - can see him linking well with Arteta.

It's the old chestnut "when we get xxxxxxxxx back and xxxxxxxxx back we will be spot on, great first team etc etc" As is the way with football in the premiership, the game is played at such pace, tough tackles, added Euro games, there are going to be injuries, which leads to the fans cursing the bad luck. I recall a few years back we had our first 11 fit for an uninterupted time - we got lucky, they got into a pattern of play and the team performed well. We have to be in a position where when an Arteta is injured, we have someone adequate to replace his creativity at the centre of the park (which would cost us £15m plus - Moutino IMO)

The other day against Wolves seen us revert to long ball after long ball, with a centre half/right back playing in Midfield - I hoped we hgad come away from that, we were playing a newly promoted team and we were the ones who looked newly promoted.

We are pretty much desperate for Jags and Arteta and Pienaar to get back, it will allow us so much variety in what we can do, a fit again Yak should form a good partnership with Saha. So we wait in hope,,,,,,,,

i know mike, its all politics, but when he's painted as a saint in the press it makes the lies and statistics used for the vote even harder to swallow.

it was a loaded question, but as mark says, they said it was open to any question. i honestly think, IF he wanted to sell the club he would name a price.

 

cameron can tell me he's going to blow up everything north of watford and i'll still vote for him to get rid of the other baffoon!

Some interesting points made since i've been sunning myself in Cyprus (seen that game against Wolves whilst there which darkened my mood )

I think even the most staunch Bill supporter can find fault with him especially with his response to the question "how much" - loaded or not the crux of all other discussion etc on the night was money - to which we need to sell our club to make money available to the manager. To refuse to answer that question was lame and only futhered the suspicions of the anti Bill mob that he is not prepared to sell at this moment.

When other clubs seem to have no issues in attracting buyers then it is hard to believe the man. It will be interesting to see how Birmingham operate in the transfer window...

Leon Osman: (my value £5m)

Pro's: Two footed, clever, skillful, true blue

cons: weak, lacks pace, inconsistent, fades out of games

Steven Pienaar: (my value £12m)

Pro's: Two footed, clever, skillful, energetic, hard working, versatile, assists, strong, quick, influencial

cons: maybe hasn't scored as many goals as he should given his talent

Why buy a player jack of all trades who is the master of none, the game has moved on since Smith was a goal scorer. On a free transfer I would say no, let's use any money to add to getting young hungry players like Victor Moses for £3m (rumoured price)

What about when we finished 17th and people were calling for Moyse' head? Surely Kenwrights decision to stick with him is ultimately the reason for our success.

Could you see Newcastle or Spurs or City sticking by their manager in such circumstances?

 

Yes BK has taken us as far as we can go and we undoubtedly need a new investor if we are to kick on but people shouldnt be so quick to write off or belittle BKs contribution to where we are now. If he sold up tomorrow everybody would have to look back on his tenure and say it was a job well done because the club is unrecogniseable from the one he took over back in the Johnson era

Absolutely agree, and that season when everton finished 17th Moyes was prone to making bad tactical errors to the point that Kenwright must have been getting a little frustrated. However I think Moyes professionalism and work ethic which is almost legendary would have made that tough for Bill, let alone we had no money and were about to sell our prize asset to stay afloat. For Bill to sack him would have been a bad move financially, who would come in to manage a club that was about to sell a star and replace with Marcus Bent? Let alone the compo pay off for Moyes.

Let's give Bill the credit he deserves, and that is getting Moyes into the club. Let's give Moyes the platform he deserves and that is money. Moyes had stated £30m would have enabled him to break the top 4 and the players to do that were earmarked...

If that's the case then truely gutted, I never knew enough about him but seen the youtube stuff which actually could make Brett Angel look great. Watched a good 15mins live and in that time he was none stop, box to box, making things happen. Would have been a landmark signing. Better than I think his reputation suggests and for his size would have no probs with the EPL.