johny

apart from getting the round, 1st leg score, and 2nd leg score completely wrong, you're totally right.

the euro cup is just that, a cup. nice to win etc. but ultimatly losing that final would not have had a great effect on LFC, whereas getting relegated, especially in the state everton where back then, could have had a massive effect. Its fair to say you might still be down there, in the lower divisions, had you gone down with that combination of team and chairman. and as for luckiest club ever, qualify that can you? ask us again next april 15th how lucky we feel, as a club like. swings and roundabouts lad.

what planet do you live on lad? Do you even watch the game? Thats FOOTBALL. happens every week to teams from every level of the game. everton never scored in injury time? scored from a deflection? benefited from a bad ref decision? get a grip! you survived relegation based on a goal line decision that the ref got wrong!! Relegation, you lucky boys.

for a laugh. seriously.

lads played over 500 games for us. been with the club since he was a kid. do you honestly think anyones remotely worried about his supposed learned loyalty in the face of the fact he's given his entire career to the club? How many games has the current longest serving player in your squad got, incidentally?

no chance. we simply wouldn't sell out for midweek games in a 70k stadium, let alone 100k. at the moment we have about 28k seasie holders, theres about 55k in the waiting list but many are duplicaes, many have will have died, moved away etc. and many will not be in a position to buy one if offered. if even half take up new sales then that is still only about 55k season tickets, which would leave about 40k for general sale. at the moment we *sometimes* don't sell out about 14k general sale tickets.

first of all remember there are two different perspectives here, its not just simply a case of one set of fans being imore stubborn. I think Everton fans see it as a preferable alternative to either Kirkby or staying at Goodison (without redevelopment). Liverpool fans, at the moment, don't. Under the status quo, Everton seem unable to attract investment, and it's almost certainly due to the lack of facilities at Goodison and the pressing need to either move or develop would be a massive turn-off to anyone looking to invest. Liverpool, on the other hand have some very rich people interested in buying us, who have maintained their interest despite being treated badly. I think most liverpool fans are more disposed to staying put and weathering the storm for the moment as it looks like a lack of financial backing will probably force the americans to sell in the next 12 months. If we were in similar circumstances then theres no way Everton fans would want to move in with us than we would with them, I'm certain of it. Honest to god if the council want to help the clubs and the local area they should be bending over backwards to help us redevelop Anfield and Goodison. They are two of the most important and significant buildings in Liverpool, and we're looking at them possibly both being demolished within months of each other. Might as well knock the cathedrals down too.

it ain't the same people bought city that want us. There would be MASSIVE resistance to a groundshare from liverpool fans. If the supermegadrome arena is as dead as it looks, there will be a massive push from fans groups to re-developing anfield.

fingers crossed eh!

not sure how longa break babel had between the end of last season and trainin for the olympics, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't much. If he'd been completely fit tonight I'm pretty sure we'd have played him, despite his super-sub exploits of last season. I can see us reverting back to our 4231 soon, when mascherano is back fit, using alonso as an out and out holding player is not ideal for him or us and as promising as Plesis has looked at times, he offers much less effective protection than Mascherano, and would be a liability in that formation. El-Zahr looks like he's come on a long way too, he's been on the fringes of the 1st team for a while but looks to have put some meat on his bones, which seems to have given him the confidence to do his stuff. One thing he's always had that I've noticed is superb touch and awairness. Fact is we can only get better. We've been shit, no getting away from that but 6pts out of 6 and a tricky qualifier done and dusted is as good as we'd have hoped for despite the performances.

whats not helpful mike? you asked for suggested solutions, i gave you one. I'll simplify the point i was making to help clear my views. I think that the inclusion by Evertonians of lines in songs and gestureas at the game refering to hillsborough marks a new low point in the relations between liverpool and everton fans at the derby. A low point that has not yet been surpassed. Either you agree with that or you don't. Munich and the mancs don't come into it, everything i've said here has been in the context of the derby. You said I thought singing about munich is acceptable, which is bollocks. If you can point out where i've said this i'll send you a blue peter bagde. we have some right nobheads following us, more than ever since 2005. But that is a line that we wouldn't cross, theres enough people in our support who see themselves as scouse 1st and red 2nd to make sure of that.

were suddenly taling about the mancs now are we, this was about the derby. liverpool and everton have both sung about munich for decades so playing that card doesn't really cut much ice with me. unless you're saying that either a. we were singing it on sunday, or b. you were retaliating on behalf of the mancs, then it doesn't realy apply to this discussion does it? and you're right, we are from the same demographic, the same people, from the same families, schools, places of work etc.. so how about this for a solution, instead of turning a blind eye to, and ignoring, sections of your own fans rubbing other scousers dead relatives in their faces, you 1st admit to the problem, which is both a recent one and on the increase, and sort it out in-house. Remember that fella shouting out in the park end during the minutes silence, go told by plenty of people around him to shut the fuck up etc... Don't see that happening now though. Thats one solution to start with?

isn't that exactly what Ross and most people posting on this forum are trying to do? and i do think you're worse, some are anyway. If you think that Liverpool fans would sing songs and make gestures moking dead scousers then you're way off the mark. I've been to plenty of Derbys both at anfield an Goodison and I know what I see and hear from both sets of fans. In the last 5 or 6 years its deteriorated completely, I've seen and heard plenty worse from your lot than ours.

sad thing is a lot of what he wrote is true. With my own eyes I've seen young everton lads walking along annie road waving copies of the sun, and again in the ground, not to mention the lads and fellas sqashing their faces like people getting crushed to death both in the away end at anfield and the park end at Goodison. I notice Ian Ross missed this out of his statement, and while on the subject of Joleon Lescott songs, he forgot to metion the song Everton sing with its references to Hysel and Hillsborough too. Instead he chose to bring up a subject which was overblown at the time, and done to death since. Strange that.

it took some finding this...was you though! http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?showto...9&hl=Appiah

is there some sort of collection set up for them? i've had a look but found nothing. the amount of money i've won becasue of them over the last 4 years! suppose i should give some back. hate hearing stories about clubs on the verge of going under, what would the fans do?

gerrard to be liverpools top league goalscorer this season. i'm pretty sure it was you...

honestly, no. 1st of all we had a good 2-0 lead going in to it, knowing full well that 1 goal would leave them needing 4. Matterazi and the brilliant cordoba both missing too. Plus theres always the chance playing the italians that they'll bottle it and simply not turn up. All in all I was pretty confident. Before this draw though I was dreading us pulling arsenal, made the mistake of saying as much to a mate too, so its partly my fault as I'm one jinxed b*stard. 2nd legs at anfield though so if we can keep it down to a single goal defecit then we will be in with a shout. away goal at their place is crucial though i think, as they really can score anywhere. Havent forgotten our little gentlemans bet either. Looking nailed on for me I have to say!

as much as it pains me to take sides with such an obvious tit as once-a-blue, that has got to be the worst post on a forum i've seen in a long time.

dodgy or not, nothing will come of it i'm pretty sure. For UEFA to call a re-draw would be basically admitting a fix. They'll deny it and stick to their guns. Sounds dodgy, but I guarantee that on message boards all round europe, every single possible outcome of that draw will have been quoted and passed off as fact well before this lunchtime. Arsenal is probably the worst draw of the lot for us. for a start its crap getting english teams in europe anyway, plus Arsenal will almost certainly beat us at the emirates.

mascherano has been excellent for us overall. The £18m puts his fee in the same bracket as Hargreaves/Carrick/Anderson, but when you consider that it includes wages too, it's a very cheap price for such a quality player with 10-12 good years still in front of him. Carsley has had a fantastic season (I should know he's the dark horse in my fantasy footy team!), but hasn't had the same oppurtunity to showcase himself at the same levels Mascherano has (world cup, european cup final). Mascherano has the potential to become the finest defencive mid in europe.

about 5 years or so ago? I was at that game, mates a bluenose and had a spare ticket, one of the lads in his work pulled out last minute so he asked me if I wanted it. Said i'd give him a £fiver for it thinking he'd tell me to fook off but he accepted so I thought "why not, not doing anything else" and went. 2-0 to you lot i think, that ginger right back scored the 2nd. Thought it was funny all the stick ince was getting, thought it was even funnier when boro started dinging you'll never walk alone! Best bit was those teenage brazilian girls in lycra though. the poor things.

our (liverpools) connection with Celtic has absolutely nothing to do with religion, and little to do with the clubs themselves. The connection is pretty much totally 'fan' based, due largely to the Celtic fans continued support of the Hillsborough Justice campaign, in particular the 'jungle bhoys'. There is still a greta divide amonst liverpool fans as to which Glasgow team to support, in my experience the split seems fairly 50/50 although even the Rangers camp are happy to acknowledge the friendship and support of the celtic lads. The Kenny Dalglish and YNWA connection also helps of course. As to the original post - the tune was knicked, but the words are completely different. I'm not sure what your point is really as I'm struggling to think of a single football song with a truely original tune that wasn't "knicked" from other clubs / popular music / nursary rhymes etc... Taken from the Everton FC page on Wikipedia - "Everton supporters sing several songs on matchdays but the most common is "It's a grand old team"; it is adopted from the version sung by Celtic supporters, making changes like "we don't care what the red side say" — a reference to red-wearing-rivals Liverpool" Most of our old classics come from old Irish tunes, both Catholic and Prodistant. In fact Poor Scouser Tommy uses one from each camp.

our (liverpool) plans are released then apparently. i've seen what I'm 75% sure is the real design, some pics were leaked a month or so ago. the design takes a bit of getting used to but it is amazing. totally unique. the new kop will be fucking massive.