carlmc25

League cup maybe, not the FA Cup for me. I don't see the point resting a GK.

I don't remember him closing down particularly vigorously and I can't remember him making too many decent runs, when he did he usually miscontrolled or got tackled. Personally speaking I thought he was very poor which was disappointing as I was hoping for a lot more from him today.

Why would you play Mucha in our biggest game of the season? the Reading match is now our most important match, the FA Cup is the only thing that can redeem our shameful season. Howard will start, definitely unless he's injured.

did he? I only remember him giving the ball away once all match and that in extra time. He wasn't particularly cutting with his passing but he was certainly accurate. I thought Beckford was quite simply crap, doesn't work particularly hard, never looked like scoring, control and strength let him down on a couple of occasions. Put it this way, when Saha is fit he'll be back in. Anichebe didn't do anything either but at least he can win a header and has some strength.

Howard, made some great saves and easily motm. Baines had a good game and scored a great goal but missed a penalty and was also to blame for their goal. Arteta and Fellaini ran the midfield, would like to see Arteta get forward more (although he played one great pass to Bily which he totally messed up in the box) but I think the bigger problem is that we just have no pace or quality either on the LW or up front which means all Arteta can do is pass to Baines or Coleman. If Rodwell can perform consistently well in attacking midfield and maybe Anichebe move out to LW we may be in business, as Arteta and Fellaini can pass the ball around all day and both work hard. Thought Beckford was a total waste of space, Osman pretty much as well, whilst Cahill did very little. Defence played very well, impressed with Jags. We should never have let Yak go out on loan, he's more talent in his little finger than Beckford has in is whole body.

I actually probably agree with that, we do seem to be unlucky in that (even at Bolton) we can totally dominate posession, Howard can have no saves to make and yet every effort they have on goal seems to go in, usually via a deflection! That being said, whenever I see us play there always seems to be a huge gaping cavern in front of the defence where the DM should be, we seem to allow the opposition midfielders a lot of room to run into and sometimes almost invite teams to shoot from just outside the box. We haven't actually let in as many goals as I'd thought, we just never ever keep a clean sheet.

I haven't criticised Fellaini for not scoring goals or not creating goals, all I'm saying is he hasn't done either and our defence are shipping goals left, right and centre so exactly what is he doing that is so brilliant? that was my question to those creaming over him every week, he's either a defensive midfielder - in which case why is our defence letting in so many goals if he is playing like the best midfielder in the country? or he is an all rounder, all rounders create goals and score some goals, neither of which he is doing. I am just trying to break down some of the hype about his performances and get people to judge players on what they actually do on the pitch and not who they are, what haircut they have or what they are paid. When I've seen Arteta play, he hasn't been the brilliant passing, goalscoring, creative controlling maestro I expected him to be this season, far from it (miles in fact). But when I have seen him play he's been performing a similar job to Fellaini, he's worked hard, tackled, kept posession, sat fairly deep - possibly due to Moyes instructions - and yet he gets slated and Fellaini lauded. He's been disappointing but some of the criticism of his performances have been well ott just because of who he is and not because of how he is actually playing. If Bily was playing in midfield and doing the job Arteta is people would be raving over it. Arteta played well against Bolton, he needs to be pushed forward or on the wing as we have basically no one with any creativity now that Pienaar has gone. I don't think Arteta has been lazy this year or hasn't tried, he simply seems to be playing in a stupid position. Hopefully the Bolton game will drive him on as we need him, he's the only hope we have to win anything and climb the table. Rant over that being said Romey, I've never thought you were one of the biased ones anyway, I do think you've been a little unfair on Arteta (oh and Anichebe!) on occasions but your match reviews seem to usually be pretty spot on and impartial.

mainly because Felli isn't capable of doing anything else, how's that Arteta's fault? from what I've seen they've both been playing similar roles, in fact it has sometimes looked like Fellaini has been employed as the attacking midfielder and Arteta as the sitting player (crazy tactics). So are you saying that Arteta should be judged negatively against Fellaini (eg both play 10 x 5 yard passes to a team mate) because he's more talented, rather than judging him solely based on his contribution...?

everyone has their own favourites, it's human nature - I just personally don't vote for my favourites when they play rubbish and I can still view their performance objectively. I mean I like Bily, he seems a nice guy who has scored some cracking goals but the fact is he was abysmal at the weekend and has been consistently poor since we signed him. Fellaini has been our best player, although the hype has exceeded the reality imo, but again - I thought he was very poor at the weekend. What has always annoyed me is that the more talented players - Arteta/Gravesen in particular, often get the most stick because their performances seem to be judged against different criteria than the rest of them. As I've said in other posts, Arteta keeps it simple he's a waste of space, Fellaini does it and he looks classy and 'keeps hold of posession.' Performance should be judged on contribution imo, not on who is playing to their maximum potential. Some jobs (such as tackling) are a lot easier to do consistently than it is to open up defences and dribble past players, which are heavily reliant on confidence. I really couldn't pinpoint who my favourite player is, it would probably be between Arteta & Yobo, but I do have a bit of a soft spot for most of the players, in particular Anichebe (possibly unwarranted) and Coleman.

I agree with a fair bit of that, particularly the scapegoats - although it works both ways in that people also have their favourites, the current one being Fellaini. What I don't agree with is that Fellaini was the best player, as mentioned in other threads his distribution wasn't just bad, it was criminal. Also, how anyone can defend Bily after that I'll never know, Fellaini was poor but Bily took poor to a whole new level. He isn't good enough, he can't play on the wing and we wasted £10m on him. Why on earth Moyes spent £10m on the world's slowest winger I'll never know, you need at least a modicum of pace to play in the premiership and even more pace if you're on the wing. I do agree that Arteta played well and Anichebe really got stuck in, it's not his fault nearly everyone else (Arteta aside) around him couldn't play a decent final ball. I also agree we weren't that bad, we were nowhere near as bad as the first half against Liverpool for example. We controlled most of the game, we just let in (again) sloppy goals and lacked a little with the final pass. With a bit more luck in and around the box we could have won it. What was disappointing was the reaction when we went 2 down, everyone apart from Arteta gave up.

I thought Fellaini was lethargic in the first half in particular and his passing was lazy all day. It wasn't as if he was trying difficult passes, he just looked like he wasn't taking any care in posession. Pity Rodwell was injured after such a good performance against Blackpool, he and Arteta could have really turned Bolton over whereas Cahill looked a yard off it.

I love Arteta, I also like Fellaini - although as I've said before, considering he never scores, hardly ever creates any goals and our defence is leaking goals, I fail to see exactly why everyone is raving over him just because he usually looks tidy. Fellaini has been playing well but yesterday he consistently gave the ball away, he was ponderous going forward and basically contributed little apart from sticking his long legs out now and again and flukily winning the ball back, usually only to then go and give it away again. He was awful. Arteta hasn't been playing like he can this season, that being said whenever I've seen us play he hasn't actually been that much worse than Fellaini, it's just that his expectation levels are much higher. When Fellaini keeps it simple he's a genius, when Arteta does it he's a pussy. Arteta works as hard, he tackles, he passes, he's scored more league goals and has created more goals. In saying that he's had an inexplicably poor season by his own standards. Yesterday, however, he was somewhere approaching his best. He had nothing doing up front, yet he consistently broke forward with pace, played in Anichebe and someone else during the macth, very rarely gave the ball away and when everyone else's head went down he was still running. Even before the match he was going around geeing people up and telling them what to do. He could hold his head up yesterday, along with possibly Howard, Baines (although second goal was shameful) and Anichebe - who I thought put a good shift in. I know people have different views and we're all cheesed off with the current season which promised so much, but I for the life of me can't understand how anyone can give Fellaini motm for that game! seriously! anyway, I'll stop flogging this donkey now! I wish this season would end and I wish Moyes would get a decent coach who knew something about tactics and defending.

Then you're delusional seriously, watch the game again, without the recent - slightly unjustified - hype ringing in your ears. He was an embarrassment.

I didn't think we were that bad. We started off totally abysmal, like a pre season friendly and went 1-0 down from a joke of a free kick. After that, we dominated the whole match until the scored an unbelievably cheap second. They scored off virtually their only two meaningful attacks. Cahill should have scored, we had a lot of balls in and about their box but we just couldn't pick the right pass. We actually moved the ball around ok and had a lot of posession. That being said, Fellaini and Bily were seriously awful. If they had've been at the races we probably would have won. I'm not overly concerned with how we played, just with our abysmal defence. Does Moyes actually work on tactics as we've kept about one clean sheet in 25 matches or something? surely our coach needs to be fired.

actually, you're talking total rubbish. Arteta was excellent. He never stopped running, even when everyone else gave up when we went 2-0 down. He played two excellent through balls, made a fair few tackles, burst forward on many occasions and he was easily the best midfielder on the pitch. Now if you were talking about how could anyone vote Fellaini I'd back you up. Talk about hype. He was a disgrace. He looked totally lazy, gave the ball away at least 70% of the time he had it and once again created absolutely zero going forward. He looked 5 yards too slow. Which was still at least a couple of yards quicker than Bily, who was a shambles. Also, what the hell was Baines doing for the second goal? Also, a couple of people had a go at Anichebe, one of the only players on the pitch who actually had a go and looked like he wanted to score. Cahill was anonymous, Beckford looked like he needed a rocket. Anichebe (until he tired with 20 mins left) was trying his hardest, particularly in the second half, and was the only attacking player we had who contributed anything going forward (unlike Coleman, Bily, Cahill). He does need to start scoring some goals though. Arteta for me, easy.

just trying to bring a bit of realism here. He's been one of our best players but I can't help feel that some of the praise has been a little ott. His job is to protect the defence and we can't buy a clean sheet. When he was out last season and Arteta was controlling the midfield then we looked a better team, although I can't figure out why they haven't gelled so far, on paper I think we have about the best midfield in the premiership with Arteta and Fellaini but for some reason Arteta hasn't been able to get forward and get involved and the midfield is a little pedestrian whereas last season there was a zip to our play. I love Fellaini but we need to keep clean sheets and I don't think all the blame can be laid against the defence, sometimes there seems to be huge gaping holes in front of the back four where the opposition midfield can just run at our defence or shoot at will.

really? I can't remember him creating too many goals, he's not scored in the league (has he?) and we keep letting in goals so I don't really see how he is the game changer for us. We did better last season without him didn't we? He's playing well, no doubt, but we're letting in too many goals and his job is to protect the defence. At least it should be anyway.

I think it has to be time to drop Distin. I actually think he's played pretty well in the main this season but he still gets caught out playing people onside, he doesn't really throw himself in front of blocks (but hangs out an ineffective leg) and his partnerships with Jags and Heitinga haven't worked. Everyone keeps going on about our lack of goals but the reason we are doing so badly this season is the lack of clean sheets. Haven't we kept something like 1 clean sheet in 19 games? Since Distin has come into the team clean sheets have been virtually non existent. Jags/Yobo and Jags/Lescott were excellent. I know Moyes likes a left footer but it's quite frankly ridiculous that he doesn't try Heitinga and Jags together as to be perfectly blunt, our defensive record cannot get any worse. We have a 5 man midfield yet still cannot keep clean sheets so something must be wrong. Everyone keeps going on about how amazing Fellaini is playing as well, I agree he's playing well but he's a defensive midfielder is he not? and yet we keep shipping goals all over the place, is he really playing as well as everyone thinks...

Just thinking about this post last night, wasn't Fellaini injured when Arteta returned last season? This would possibly add fuel to the belief that Arteta is currently suffering due to Moyes using Fellaini as more of a box to box midfielder and Arteta is having to sit deep...

he played ok yesterday, got forward a few times, did a couple of tricks and played a couple of riskier passes. He is getting better but he needs to be moved more forward. Fellaini is doing well, but he'll never be the creative player Arteta is, Moyes keeps pushing Fellaini forward as he is tall and so a threat in the air. It's a poor move as Fellaini isn't particularly effective around the opposition penalty box and Arteta is completely wasted in our own half. I agree with an earlier poster in that it seems Moyes wants Arteta to help us bring the ball out of defence, stop us hoofing it all the time. I can understand Moyes' logic, but surely Fellaini can do that and Arteta can be pushed up behind the striker(s) to create some problems. He has the brain, the skill, the shooting ability. He's our most talented player and I don't for one minute believe that he's just phoning it in because he's on a bigger contract. I wouldn't sell him, I'd push him forward and see what happens. Rodwell has been a donkey in midfield all season, he doesn't deserve to play either. Arteta, if he is played in his correct position, will be one of the stars of the premier league, he's a brilliant player, he just needs his belief back and a manager who utilises his talent.

well we'll have to agree to disagree but personally, when Anichebe spent the whole second half pinned to the left touchline and Osman spent the whole time more central, to me that suggests Anichebe was in fact playing LW in a 451 because Moyes recognised we were getting battered. The fact that Anichebe was then replaced by Bily, a LW, tends to reinforce my thinking. But anyway, as I've said in previous posts and topics, the formation wasn't really to blame in the first half anyway (like it hasn't been in any game this season) it's the attitudes of the players that have been totally unacceptable on too many occasions.

because in the first half when we had 442 it was. In the second half we dominated. All of you must have been watching a different game from me, Fellaini was our best midfielder but he wasn't THAT much better than Arteta imo and I hardly think he was a 'beast.' Just decent against the poorest Liverpool midfield you will ever see. First half the protection for our defence was non-existent and all the players were walking around like it was a pre-season friendly.

Arteta got forward quite a bit and took a few risks with his passing, it was also his corner that created the first goal. I'm not saying he was vintage, but that's the best I've seen him play in a while. Much more like it. I think people are going a little ott about Fellaini, he played well against a mickey mouse midfield but he was hardly scintillating.

I think you must be delusional. We were so obviously playing 451 with Anichebe on the LW in the second half yet somehow you fail to see it. Didn't you notice that Anichebe spent the whole time hogging the left touchline? in what respect was it 442? We may have played with two strikers but one of the them was on the wing for the entire second half which is why we actually got back into the game whereas in the first half we were totally overrun by Liverpool's five man midfield. That being said, as I've said all along this season, the teams Moyes is putting out are not the problem, the attitude is and that first half performance, 442 aside, was abysmal and I don't think we even closed down a red shirt in the last 20 minutes of that half. Anichebe had a big impact on the game second half, he deserves to play there next game and not Bily.

I thought Fellaini played pretty well but not brilliant, moving Anichebe out wide made the single biggest difference and he had a hand in both goals. All of our attacking play went down his side and he worked hard, I'll give my motm to him.