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The Regulator
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Right, thought I'd throw my 2 pennies in since I was actually at the game, but I'm acutely aware that people may not read my sometimes overlong laboured posts. So I'll keep it to the players that played and how I thought they did:
Howard - Solid game, never really challenged too much by Cardiff but never really looked like being beaten.
Coleman - Good performance in an average game. Spent most of his time in the opposition half and made some half decent runs, but was stifled by our inherent lack of directness.
Jagileka - Great game. Played well, found a man with almost every pass, pushed forward when he could and looked calm on the ball. Certainly seems comfortable adopting to RM's methods.
Distin - Saved himself with some important defensive work but he was awful positionally. Read the game wrong at times and had to rely on his pace and power to save his errors. Not teh strongest performance by him but made up for it with his usual effort.
Baines - Fantastic game from him. True professionala nd convinced me in 90 minutes that there was no way he was leaving. Crossing hasn't been spot on but he can't be perfect every game.
Mirallas - Very, very poor. Had several opportunities to run into space and neglected to do so. Chose the wrong option on several occasions and not even a hint of a barnstorming run ala stoke being made. Needs to up his game.
Osman - Please for the love god let the arrival of McCarthy and Barry mean he doesn't start anymore. No sort of impact whatsoever.
Fellaini - Basically played as a defender. Showed a complete lack of motivation and made it obvious that his time with us was over.
Barkley - No idea why he made man of the match. Seriously. A good performance in parts, including some great incisive runs, but teh amount of times he tried to do too much, lost the ball and we ended up chasing back was ridiculous. Seriously guys, how anyone can say that this performance deserved man of the match is beyond me. Granted he was losing the ball in their final third as opposed to ours which is a big imporvement, but he was still trying far too hard. He looked a lot better distributing the ball and acting as a playmaker than as an attacker. Although his ability to create chances was hindered by the inferior quality of the rest of our midfield, barring one...
Pienaar - Man of the match. By far. First half saw a few moments of individual brilliance but he couldn't link up well enough to create a solid threat. Second half though he and Baines looked like they always used to, overlaps and underlaps, Pienaar would burst in and out of pockets of space allowing runs from 2 or 3 of our players. Everything good about us going forward involved at least one key pass from pienaar, if not a sudden burst of movement. I was in the ninian stand and second half he was in fornt of me the whole time. Everytime he got on the ball he lokoked a threat and more than once cardiff fans had to say "fair play" as he was a class above the opposition.
Jelavic - FFS sums up his performance.
Delofeu - How is he not starting? 5 minutes and gave us more threat than we had for the other 85. Superb player on the looks of it, direct skillful and put in a few crosses one of which had every cardiff fans heart in their mouth. Seriously, should start the next game ahead of Mirallas. Or at least get a good 25-30 to show what he can do. We've got a player here.
Kone - leave the poor bastard alone!! Kone came on and then it looked like we actually had a striker playing!!! Good first touch, good link up play, and at least he took a fucking shot!!! Jelavic on his current form is a good few steps behind Kone. Kone will score for us, he looked like Saha when fit and firing for the short time he was on. Again, I'd say he should start against Chelsea. I think we underestimate this guy.
In summary, although it was a lacklustre, uncreative and scrappy draw, there were elements and passing movements that suggest we will be playing very good football and winning games by good margins before too long. And if nothing else, Pienaar and Kone are getting way more flak than they deserve.
Anyway I rambled again. Yeah....sorry bouth that
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The way i see it we look strong all over the park now after selling two players, one of which was never going to cement a first team place. After letting go of Hitzlsperger and mucha and neville retiring, we needed cover desperately. At first, the mad dash for 3 wigan players made that desperation look transparent. But when you look at the squad and where everyone can play, we are in a stronger position than a lot of teams in terms of quality:
Keepers: Howard, Joel, Springthorpe
Springthorpe probably wont get a game but Joel and Howard give us 2 strong keepers for the season, necessary in my opinion to create the competition needed to maintain top end performances. Joel's age also gives us a future prospect of some potential, whilst Howard is still holding his own at the tail end of his career.
Defenders: Coleman, Stones, Hibbert, Browning, Jagielka, Distin, Heitinga, Alcaraz, Duffy, Baines, Oviedo, Garbutt
Defensively this season, I think we're going to be fine. I don't see the whole expanisve style means shipping goals ethos being applied here. Everton had one of the best defensive records last season and you don't just forget how to defend overnight. Alcaraz will prove important in terms of depth, and Stones coming through means we don't have to stress too much about the possibility of selling Heitinga. Distin isn't getting any younger but by the looks of things he can handle it for at least another season. Keeping Baines meanswe still have europes best left back.
Midfielders: Delofeu, Mirallas, Naismith, Gibson, Osman, Barkley, McCarthy, Barry, Pienaar, Kennedy
The emergence of Ross Barkley has been like a new signing anyway, Martinez faith in his maturity paying dividends so far, but the most important player we acquired was Barry IMO. He has experience that Gibson and Osman simply don't, and his all round game will add a calmness and assurance to our game. In Mccarthy, we've signed the much touted replacement for Fellaini, for a similar fee for when we took Fellaini from Liege. The key difference being Mccarthy has worked with Martinez for a few years, there is an understanding there, and he also has Premier League experience. All round he is better than Fellaini when he first arrived, and I think he will progress quicker. We could still do with selling naismith and buying a left sided winger but overall we have a stronger midfield now without Fellaini than we did with him.
Strikers: Jelavic, Kone, Lukaku, Vellios
Vellios was our young player of the year in his breakthrough season and I think he will benefit from seeing another young player in Lukaku taking his chance. I think Vellios might see a handful of games and get himself one or two goals. Obviously Jelavic is lacking in confidence but we know he is a first time finisher and a poacher. If he starts scoring again, I don't think he'll stop. But just in case, we have Kone, who notched 11 last season and again, if he can find form, will be another striker who could bag us more than we bargained for. Finally, Lukaku's 17 last season was an indication that he, like Benteke, deserves to be a first choice striker. the fact that Chelsea bought Samuel Eto'o for a year means I think mourinho didn't trust Lukaku under the pressure that is now on Chelsea to win the big prizes. He scored 17 fo West Brom, but that's West Brom. Chelsea will be expected to win the league and having also signed Atsu and Schurrle and having a plethora of attacking midfielders, I can easily see why they plumped to loan him out again. luckily, we were perfectly posied as we are a step above West brom in terms of quality and expectation, and I imagine he'll start every game he's fit enough to play in. Lukaku will bring us much needed goals and to swap that for Victor makes it even sweeter.
Overall, when you look at our squad, we're maybe only one or two away from actually having a squad that can compete at the very highest level.
Barry is a free agent at the end of this year, which means we could simply sign him straight up if he has a good season for us, the option to resign Delofeu seems plausible and so we'll only really lose Lukaku at the end fo this season. However, dependent on Chelsea and our success this season, we might even be able to prize him off them if we're clever.
I'm extremely happy with the signings, and I honestly think ourselves, Liverpool and Chelsea have done the best business of the window. Tottenham's massive spending offset by bale wont backfire, but it could take too long to settle the team down for them to reap the rewards this season. Arsenal have signed a fantastic player in Ozil, but not solved the defensive problems, Man City have bought well but have a new manager who I feel will do better in the champs league than the league, and Man U under Moyes are an absolute joke, but the players there should not be written off.
The top 7 this year will be Chelsea, Man City, Tottenham, Everton, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man United, but the order is so far up in the air, I don't think we'll have an idea of where people will end up until at least February. If we can maintain our solid if uninspiring start and utilise our new look squad properly, I see no reason why we can't be in the mix.and rightfully, given that all the loan players could just leave and not return at the end of this spell, we need to maximise their input and use it to get as much from this season as we can.
A trophy would gaurantee us Europa League next season, whilst a consistent season could easily see us pushing for 4th.
After all that, it would be interesting to see if Martinez still thinks the transfer window should have shut a month ago
- Cornish Steve, Steve_E, Romey 1878 and 7 others
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DONE DEALS - Everton confirm five deals
Everton have sold Marouane Fellaini to Manchester United for a £27.5m fee, with Victor Anichebe heading to West Brom for a fee which could rise to £6m.
Coming into Goodison are James McCarthy for £13m from Wigan and a pair of season long loan deals for Romelu Lukaku and Gareth Barry.
BBC Sport. Wow.
- Romey 1878 and Lowensda
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GET IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Please please please for the love of God let this be true.
Out
Naismith
Heitinga
Anichebe
Fellaini
In
McCarthy
Fernando
Astori
Martins Indi
Of course theres no way that's going to happen.....but I can still dream cant I????
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Hmm.
A year or so older than Felli, but in the last year of his contract. A brazilian with great passing ability and strong in the tackle, who will definitely be looking to force himself into the squad for the world cup.
Obviously theres plenty of reasons to be skeptical, but if we did pull this off, I'd see as a coup for us. Depends on how much we get for felli I guess....
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Arsenal are in for Ba. So we probably wouldnt get a sniff.
As for Anichebe, seriously, get him out of here. Flattered to deceive every year, injury prone, and to get 6m would be fantastic business. This deal might be part of a chain that sees Odemwingie off to Cardiff. Don't think it'll be dependant on that since they still have Vydra Long and Anelka, but I'm assuming the monetary side of it would be partly based on selling Odemwingie.
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Got to be honest, i think Martinez won't play Delofeu in the league until after our first win. Martinez is using (aparting from Barkley) pretty much the same squad and set up as Moyes, albeit with a different playing style. I think once we've won a game and have got the wind at our backs we'll see a lot mroe of him.
I 'd be hesistant to ask a 19 year old from a different league to come in and start winning us games right from the off. and regarding the season loan and he should be getting more games angle, I honetly think starting him above other players at Everton at the start of the season would send the wrong message to the players. He's not a mercenary we've hired to come in and win us the league title, he's a young player, still developing, who needs a guiding hand and a club that will give him the chance to grow. Growth does happen in spurts, but to ask for one of those after 2 games is a bit much.
Let him bed in, ideally with a game like stevenage tonight where he should be miles above the opposition in terms of pace and skill, and I'm sure we'll soon see him starting games, or at least getting 20-30 mins.
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Oh I know, I'd just like money to be an option for us!
Lest you forget Romey that Tan changed the strip of teh Cardiff Bluebirds from blue to red in order to bring prosperity. He also wanted to change the name to the Cardiff Dragons, and hired people who design truly awful kits
In saying that though, Joel Robles was on loan from Athletico at Wigan, so we would have paid Athletico something decent (perhaps a couple million euros) then Alcaraz wages would be decent as well, add that to the £6m we spent on Kone and I'd imagine so far we've already racked up at least 50-60k a week in wages and spent at least £6m if not more...and we're still looking for players now in the £5-6m bracket, which considering for the season ahead we only actually need 1 or 2 players, I mean I know we'd love half a dozen world class players but we only need 1 or 2 to have a competative squad for next season...
I get it would be nice to able to splash the £27m cardiff have so far, but Cardiff spent it based on what they needed for the league, they needed a quality defender, they needed a midfield general and they needed a goalscorer, so they went and got them...the trade off as there always is with new ownership are the rules and requirements they put in place...
I honestly don't think we're in that abd a position, and if we did have £30m to spend, would we really go and buy a big £25m signing, I prefer the £5m options myself, Distin, Heitinga, Jagielka, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines, Jelavic, Mirallas, Gibson......all these players cost no more than £6m.....so why do we need to go spraying around money when we have been managing off what we had?
I'm much more for Martinez bringing in the youth and strengthening from within, with the occasional splurge on some decent talent, as I think the best players we've had (bar Felliani) have come from smaller transfers, Alderwerield can be included in that because I rate him highly and he's in that bracket...
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Saha could have been one of the world's best. His injury prone nature held him back, but there were glimpses here and there of sheer brilliance form the man. The Cryuff Turn and goal for us was one that sticks out in memory, I honestly can't remember who it was against though.
Top player and top professional.
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Straight swap. They both have a year left.
That would be ideal however I doubt they'd see the merit in taking a player who's older and not worth as much in a straight swap.
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I'd like to see a deal where we give cash (2-3mil) plus Heitinga....he gets to go back to Ajax and we get a better younger defender
- Matt and SmashedCrab
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We can't forget either that prospects are just...prospects. Not all of the youth players that have had potential reach it because it's potential, what we think they could do, not what they can actually achieve. That being said I think we have quite a few now who deserve first team shots, Duffy and Barkley being 2 of the most prominent in that pool.
I've said all along I can't wait til Ross is a first team regular for us, as I feel he has bags of talent and his development was slowed down hugely by that triple leg break. I'm hoping Martinez has the idea of mixing old and new, giving everyone a chance at different stages. Also given our financial situation, I think it's part of why Bill brought him here. If we can add value to our youth, and sell others on their abilities, then even if we lose some players to other teams it will be for decent money, money to reinvest in the squad.
After all youth doesn't have all the answers, but if we keep developing them hopefully we can have the best of both, by either selling them for a good price or by them becoming integral to our first team.
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can you explain how you know this? It sounds like it could be feasible, but Id like to know where you got this from.
EFC1111 posted it about half way up? Am I the only one who actually reads through the posts?
Two articles in the Echo today from an interview with Jordi Cruyff. This one reveals that we pay no loan fee to Barcelona if Deulofeu features in kore than half of our games. Also underlines what a coup that we signed him in the face of interest from some top European clubs: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/barcelona-back-roberto-martinezs-everton-5163542
Quote from the article that states it here:
Martinez has set up a shrewd deal for the player, which means Everton do not have to pay a loan fee if Deulofeu makes appearances in more than 50% of the Toffees’ games next term – something it is believed he could well be capable of doing.
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On this, I live in Cardiff so anyone who is thinking of heading down for the game and fancies a TT hook-up PM me and we can arrange something
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Hopefully I'm right in saying this, but is the main reason he was available for loan because he's signed a contract for Barcelona (as in the main team) from the B team, and they've loaned him out to get him ready for the first squad?
If that's the case then I think this will work out in many aspects for us. Primarily, as has been stated, the philosophy link up will mean Deulofeu will fit into Martinez style straight away. However, if my question above is correct, the two biggest influences could be based on the deal itself.
The player coems highly rated and I'm sure Barca want to see him come on leaps and bounds, as I'm sure the player does too. The fact that if he plays more than half his games we owe no fee is an incentive for us to play him as much as possible, and at the same time I think since he knows he'll be going back to Barca next year he'll be playing out of his skin every match to get game time with them next season.
All things considered, I'm highly looking forward to seeing what he can do, and if it's anywhere near what's been said about him, I feel we have signed a player we desperately need in a deal that works otu amazingly well financially for us.
Gwlad all over.
- Matt, Romey 1878, Lowensda and 1 other
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I response to the original post, I wouldn't worry too much about Moyes and his transfer buys.
There is a balance between what Moyes could acheive and what he could afford. Moyes brought a player like Coleman across from Ireland, for £60,000. He had a breakthrough season, then a difficult second season, but last year went on to be our first choice right back for almost the entire season. However, what people forget about this transfer is that when we bought Coleman, we already had Neville and Hibbert, and I'm pretty sure another RB (possibly?). There wasn't a furor because the cost was so low, even still people made the point of why are we buying a right back when other positions need cover? And therein lies the key to Moyes.
I think this is why he has been chosen as the long term replacement, he'll buy what he needs but he'll also look a few seasons down the line. Sticking with above, we've now lost Neville to retirement and I doubt Hibbert is going to feature all that much from here on out. Coleman is now deputised by Stones, a player who cost us between 1-2 mil in January. Already it signifies that Coleman has gone from being a £60,000 potential to an actual £4-5mil player. Should he continue in that form this season, he'll probably be worth closer to 10 or 12 this time next year.
Moyes will look at the squad as a whole, take it all in, and way up what he needs. It makes me laugh that Man U fans think you're lacking in central midfield. Granted Scholes has gone, but given the players able to play in your central midfield are: Giggs, Anderson, Carrick, Cleverley, Kagawa, Rooney, Jones and not forgetting Fletcher. Fletcher is a player we were linked with before he Man U snapped him up, an argument for the Dithering Dave fan base to add to their already well stoked fire.
He does dither, but he's realistic. You won the league with 13 points to spare last season, I don't think you need a central midfielder, you just want one. Trust in Moyes and he'll get you what you need. What you want will take longer.
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From what I know he can deputise at RB, mainly a CB, but more right sided than the other 3 belgians.
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Apologies, I maybe misunderstood, but to say we dont need him and explain selling him led me to think you were justifying selling.
If the rest of the team converted 50 chances or 5, the source is Baines. So, rather than get rid of the source, regardless of price, get people who can convert the chances. With RMs style of attacking football, Im hoping his assists go up.
Maybe I didn'ty word it properly when first posting, trying to get my point across quickly when I'm in work is pretty hard. My whole point is basically no player is invaluable, every one has a price and if a price came in that was high enough for Baines we'd be foolish to not accept it. Does everyone else think Baines only does good things for us? How about the fact alone that because he barely ever gets injured and plays every game means no one else at the club can develop at left back, the likes of Garbutt and Oviedo deserve games, more than they will ever get if the same policy next season is applied that baines must start every match.
And this brings me to RM. It's valid as SteveO says that if we're bringing in attacking players to help convert chances then it's an even bigger argument for Baines to stay. What I want though is a team that doesn't need Baines to win matches, because that's how we know we're getting stronger as team,. Over reliance on a player is bad thing, or am I the only one who thinks that?
Like I've said Baines is a fantastic talent, one that I hope to hell we can keep hold of. But if we get a realistic bid for a 28 year old defender who's already played some of his best football, why would we point blank refuse it because we think he's worth £30-40m? It doesn't make sense, £20m is a great price for us for Baines, but he's not worth that much. Seriously. £17-18m is realitsic. If we got a bid for that, from a club bigger than ourselves, we would accept it. That still doesn't mean Baines would go, or would want to go at that, but the money from that would do a lot more for the club than maybe people realise. I think transfer prices are so over inflated nowadays its ridiculous.
And no, on the counter argument I don't think Glen Johnson for example is worth the same as baines, but at the time, if you remember, there was a sudden surge that summer to draft in young english talent. The fact that glen is english, was a half decent RB with potetntial to be very good, and that it was the shite (Andy carroll??) I'm not surprised he went for £18m. The price isn't just made of what the player is worth to the club he plays for, it's all the factors in the equation.
My argument is that even if Baines is the best left back at the moment, there are too many other factors at play to say he is worth £20m +. I think Leighton is amazing and if he stays great, but £18m isn't an unrealistic figure, given you could probably get Evra or Cole for £10m, and someone like Assou-Ekotto for £5m. Seriously, there aren't many left backs worth more than £20m, in fact very little. Maybe Alba or Contreaou because of their age and ability, but even then, that's still pretty high. Baines is a gem, but he is not all we are, and it's foolish to think he is. If Fellaini went for £23m I wouldn't be happy as I'd want to keep him, but it's a fair price. Like I said, everyone has a price, and realistically Baines is lower than we think, but it's still not low is it?
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so then you get rid of him?! In my opinion, you invest in players to convert the chances rather than get rid of the source of the chances.
I didn't say get rid of him did I????????
I said if we get an offer between £15m-20m it would be realistic to accept it. They haven't bid that and nor do I think anyone else will, hence why I'm not worried.
Look at the flip side, if Baines was spraying crosses in like he has been, and out of 113 chances created, we scored 50 goals, and he got 50 assists, then he'd be worth upwards of £30m easily. But we haven't have we? He's a fantastic talent, and one I hope we keep, but it shows that we haven't used him to his full capability. If we can start doing that great, because I think he can and will get even better, but there's a reason we're getting bids for him around the £10m mark...because we're not holding up our end of the bargain in finishing what he starts; if we did, Baines would be worth what we think he is.
Like I said, if we converted even a third of the chances, his worth would be immeasurable. But we don't, I'm not at all saying I want to lose him, I'm saying a bid between £15m and 20m would have to be seriously considered. That's all.
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What I don't get about this is our opinion that because he was the most creative player in europe we need him. Truth is, we don't. It's great that we have him, he's consistently a very talented performer, but out of 113 goalscoring opporutnities...he had 5 assists...
Don't get me wrong I get the point, and it's valid, that if he can create over 100 gs opportunities he's worth more than £12m, and to a team like United I think he'd get a lot more assists and be worth more in the region of £20m....however, if we don't finish the chances he creates then he's doing it for fuck all....not being cynical about it but we could lose baines and still be alright, no other team looks to their left back to create all those kinds of opportunities because they don't need them too, they've got midfielders for that...
So in my view I think if we get between 15-20m there's no reason not to accept, obviously though I want BK and RM to hold out for as long as possible because he is an important player for us, but not irreplacible, and we've got to remember that going forward...
Martinez won't last the season
in General Everton Discussion
Posted
We did superbly in the transfer window.
Mucha OUT Joel IN
Neville OUT Alcaraz IN
Anichebe OUT Kone IN
Hitzlsperger OUT Barry IN (Albeit a loan, but he's on a free, and if he plays well, I can easily see him getting a contract)
Fellaini OUT McCarthy IN
Lukaku IN (Loan)
Delofeu IN (Loan)
Add the fact that Martinez is actually playing our most promising talent and Stones and Oviedo actually look like getting games, I can't understand any argument to say that we're not on track. Every single player above is an improvement. You could argue Fellaini but honestly, I don't care. He had 5 years here, and now we've got someone younger to build up while selling a player we had already improved for a £10mil profit. That and we're still unbeaten ffs