nogs

As has also been mentioned, they can't offer him anything without our permission. Plus, let's not forget he has FOUR years left on his contract, there is really nothing player or buying club can do if we want don't want to sell. If Stones starts to sulk, pull the whip on him, drop him and give Browning a go, see how long before he falls in line. Though to be honest, he doesn't seem that type at all. I do think he has his price, but Chelsea are the desperate ones here, not us. 50 million or no deal.

I knew people would start saying this after today's game! All summer it's been playmaker this, number 10 that... step up Ross Barkley! The squad is full of midfielders and wingers of all shapes and sizes, I for one want Barkley to make that creative position his own, and on current form he's looking good for it. No one is mentioning a right back - what happens if Coleman gets injured? I would love to see Lennon, another striker and an experienced defender to offer cover at cb and rb (two players preferably, but finances etc etc)

Wow! Been out with the kid, where the f did that come from??

Totally agree Steve. Having 4 21 or younger ready for Prem football (Barkley, Stones, Garbutt, Galloway) is quite an achievement. Add in two or three more out of Besic, Browning, McAleny, Dowell, Ledson, Holgate etc. and you can probably start talking about a golden generation. And lets not forget Lukaku is still a kid really, plus Gerry. And yes, drive and committment is everything. Best way to nurture that? Get them in playing together and foster a real collective identity, team spirit and shared will to win. Crack that and it's exciting times. But like I say, we're two or three years away from seeing that bear fruit, and as you say, the odds for all or most of them making it are strongly against.

Interesting quote Martinez talking about a 'golden generation'. http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/33681892 I'd love to believe there's a plan to all of this, and the club really reckon they've got a special young group that can go on to make our club great again. Are they that good? Only time will tell I guess. Will it be fun sitting on our hands waiting to find out while other teams spend their way past us for the next two or three seasons? Of course not, a fan's patience only lasts to the next game, but it'd be nice to dream there is a silver lining somewhere.

Having briefly been a sports reporter im not surprised by the shite they keep spouting at all. It really is moronic - Chelsea make a bid for someone, well that's definitely going to happen, isn't it, who could turn down Chelsea, let's just keep running the same story because it's bound to happen, maybe if I brownnose them enough Mourinho will let me suck him off for helping make the transfer happen...

This. Not for sale means not for sale. If Chelsea said that about any player of theirs, the press would back off. They're treating us like shite because in their eyes only certain teams matter.

This morning's press conference: Manager Roberto Martinez also ruled out any sale for John Stones who has been linked with Chelsea and Manchester United. Martinez is determined to keep the 21-year-old at Goodison Park. "I have said before the player is not for sale and that is the end of it," he said. Sounds pretty categorical to me. Now can press and pundits kindly fuck off and stop talking about OUR player going to Chelsea, it's an absolute disgrace.

Mike0 has a point... the 'number 10 as playmaker' is a bit of a throw back to 4-4-2, the nippy lad with good feet who played off the target man. Beardsley springs to mind as a classic example. It's also been a typical number in sides who play an advanced 'pivot' player a la Riquelme. In our 4-2-3-1 set up, it means the guy who plays in the middle of the 3. But to be fair, the number on the shirt nor the position on the field determines who a playmaker is. In sides that play 4-3-3, there's no such thing as a 'traditional number 10', so a team like Barca has had Xavi who sits deep, Iniesta who cuts in from the left, and Messi who is a winger/forward - you'd call all of them 'playmakers', none of them a 'number 10'. What we're after is a player who can pass, dictate tempo, spot a killer ball and chip in with goals, regardless of whether they operate deep or high, box-to-box or either side. The kind of player we all hope and dream Barkley will become, essentially.

If Lennon comes in, that's him, Gerry and Kev (and McGeady if we're really struggling) for the winger spots, then Kev, Ross, Naisy and maybe Cleverley who can all play number 10. Not ideal, but Lennon would give Martinez an excuse not to find a number 10... Id be all for investing in wingers and strikers rather than 'playmakers' tbh, but we'd need to change our shape.

I can't see him taking Cahill's place at all. More experienced, more solid, less prone to a mistake. If Stones goes its as Terry's replacement, which means little football until that horrible twat calls it a day.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29240782 Not how the match reporter or me remember it, but hey, each to their own, if it suits the current mood to revise history so be it. And before anyone pipes up about shots on target stats, yes I know, but as I remember it they were mostly rubbish. We had 7 on target, scored 4, if that's not a dominant performance, I don't know what is. Christ, who on here wouldn't kill for that now??? Anyway, back to topic...

About the number 10 position everyone is crying out for... Yohan Gourcuff is a free agent after being released by Lyon. Injury risk, yes, but also seriously talented. If we're that cash strapped, wouldn't a punt on a player with his credentials, and still only 29, for FREE be worth a look?

Sod stats, I was there, we were clinical, they weren't, we won with something to spare.

On the Europa games... it wasn't luck that we hammered Wolfsburg at Goodison, we outplayed them and at a canter. Tbh I couldn't believe how the seasons of the two clubs panned out, they looked very average and we looked like a team. On Lukaku... I just think it is unfair to single him out, the whole side has been abysmal for 9-10 months now, and as far as I'm concerned it all started at the back. Stones is young and makes big mistakes (like Saturday), you can kind of forgive that, but what about Jags? You can slag Lukaku off all you like for perceived bad attitude etc, but I dont care how much of a 'model pro, good guy' Jagielka is meant to be, last season he was dogshit, yet he NEVER seems to cop it. You have to be fair, singling out individuals is pointless, its a team game and at the moment very few in our squad look like they're firing on all cylinders.

McCarthy's crap at squash is he?

I don't think Shaqiri would be a good move for us, big time prima donna who has been shown the door by three clubs already. Hughes fancies himself as Mr Big Time, let him take a punt on him. I share the general despondency, though. Its worrying when first weekend of the new season and Swansea, Palace and Southampton all look to have better squads than ours. You couldn't have dreamt of that happening under Moyes, is Martinez just not tough enough to stand up to our useless board. Part of me would like to believe this is all part of a long term plan, go through a bit of 'austerity' to pay off the debts, and on the field aim to build a side for two, three years time around a really promising crop of youngsters. But then again another part of me just thinks our club is being run by tossers who are starting to let clubs like those named above overtake us.

You watch a completely different game to me then. Utter rubbish.

Comparing Europa League opposition to league 1 is nonsense and suggests you know very, very little about European football. We beat the team who finished second in the Bundesliga ffs.

Did we expect anything else? Look, we have to believe we can improve. This team started excellent last season, we were just poor at the back, and in the end that infected our whole game. Biggest problem today? Poor defending, again. Martinez has to address thet, and tbh on the pitch its Jags who needs to step up and show he's a leader. IF we sort it out at the back, Cleverley will improve our tempo, Barkley will be the number 10 and I still think he can be a superstar, Deulefeou will add pace and directness, Kone was a huge bonus today, Lukaku, Mirallas and McCarthy HAVE to play better... I honestly believe that can come good, but only, only if we stop leaking goals.

And again. I've already posted this is exactly why Lukaku looks ineffective, the tactics do not play to his strengths at all. Everton 0-1 Watford Posted at 15:42 Romelu Lukaku has been distinctly quiet and here is why. He is not getting the opportunity to get into the box enough and instead is having to come back to midfield and help his side build attacks. Consequently, he has not had a single touch inside the area. The Toffees have gone a little closer, Ross Barkley curling a shot just over but they are still not worrying Watford enough.

BBC live text sums it up perfectly. Everyone but Martinez can see it. Everton 0-1 Watford Posted at 15:30 I'll stress again, it is obviously very early days but there is a predictability about Everton's play at the moment. Patient passing in an attempt to find the opener, but no-one making incisive runs. One such spell ends with Ross Barkley lashing an effort well, well over from 25 yards.

I disagree entirely over what you're saying about Rom. Yes his touch could improve but 1 on 1 with a defender he is a brute, more than capable of shrugging off challenges, turning and attacking the goal. That sort of play, which I think is his main strength, is an open invitation for other players to get forward and feed off the scraps. Our problem is we never get the ball into Rom quick enough to give him a real go against just his marker, our slow player allows the defence to get behind him and the midfield pack the space in front of him. I think Austin would have the same problem in our team, he's at his best with balls in the box from out wide. Not Martinez's game so why bother.

I think a big factor in playing at a higher tempo is being prepared to knock it direct to Lukaku. I know people criticise his touch but he just loves it 1-1 with a defender so he can use his pace and strength, he'll pick up his own second balls if he feels he's in a scrap. Doing that turns defences and creates chances for the midfield to push up near the final third, rather than mincing around in their own half waiting for the perfect opening that barely ever comes. I'm convinced if we played 4-3-3 with Barkley, McCarthy and Cleverley and used Rom as a pivot we'd improve enormously. Can I see Martinez go direct? The 13/14 version did, last year, not a chance.

I think everything depends on how we defend. Once the individual errors and lapses at set pieces really started to cost us points last season, it sucked confidence out of us all over the pitch (I thought we still played some decent stuff til about November). The worry is that the drop in tempo was Martinez's answer to the defensive problems, reduce risks rather than work on some actual defensive strategies. If we play that way again we'll do well to make the top half. My hope is we start solid, concede few and grind out a few results, and from that platform find some confidence and start living up to the school of science song again.