Bailey

Yeh I think his link up play may have improved actually, or maybe it just the way the game is playing. Naismith has been excellent so far.

Really good first half, just a shame that it was such a poor goal to concede whilst being a little unlucky. We have to keep our foot on the pedal though and make a statement.

So far we have been excellent and that was a great finish. Nice link up play and pass from Lukaku to start it all too. Sometimes I think that goes a bit unnoticed in some parts *cough Haf cough*

FFS... Why do we give goals back so quickly. Unlucky in many respects but we have to get rid.

Been frustrating but that is a cracking finish from McGeady.

I don't have an opinion on you either way in all honesty, just debating a footballer, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't like it when people label players based on little or no analysis. You have said he is shit and garbage but given no actual reason other than his injury record and his price tag. Even if you had just said the colour of his hair then I might have agreed with you Anyway, each to their own, I'll back back to gloat when he picks up the Ballon D'or next spring!

Yeh me too. He isnt saying we might not win a trophy this year because I am building for the future, he is saying I plan to be at the club for the long haul and whilst I want to win things now, I want to make sure we can keep winning in the future too. He did genuinly feel the same about Wigan though. He spent a lot of his career at Wigan, but I expect most Wigan fans would understand that he needed a new and bigger challenge. Unfortunately it may also happen to us in the future but I dont doubt his commitment to the club while he is here.

Yes I was referring to you being proven right as a bad buy. You cant just use the fact the guy got injured as proof that he was a bad purchase, thats just unlucky or lucky depending on how you look at it. I am using statistics to back up my point. Across 60 games Vic is roughly scoring 10-12, which is pretty much an odd goal here and there for a striker. Yes Vic probably hasnt played the full 90 minutes in those games but his impact off the bench is far greater than when he starts. Yes probability dictates if you play more you score more, but I would hazard a guess that Vic has scored as many goals from the bench than he has starting. Of course it matters who you play with as that will affect someone's stats. If Messi plays in a team of 10 year olds against Man Utd, he isnt going to score many goals or create many chances! A lone striker has far more work on his hands than playing alongside someone else. The reason I used statistics was to back up the point that Kone does more than score goals. Bearing in mind his 5 appearances last season for us probably culminated in 30 mins of football, he still created 2 chances. In his last season with Wigan he played 34 times and created 41 chances scoring 11. That combination is better than most other strikers in the league, bar your Suarez, Aguero and Sturridges etc. They are not the stats of a 'garbage' player. They at the very least would suggest that he is more than just a goal scorer, would you not agree? I have never said you cant have an opinion Paddock, but your reasoning is purely that he is shit for missing a couple of chances and getting injured. To me that's not an opinion, its ignorance.

I think he is a decent player but nothing more than that. He was a great investment and he was certainly the best on the ball midfielder we had at the time but we have moved on quite a bit since then. His defensive positioning often left a lot to be desired and for such a good passer he gives the ball away too often and with his mobility it makes it difficult for him to make amends. He was very good in the first two games of last seasons pre-season and he was very good again when he game on with Besic against Celta Vigo so I will be interested to see how he does.

I would start with McCarthy and Besic ahead of Barry and leave Osman at home.

At least that should be an easy 6 points this season now!

I wouldnt read anything into preseason form (re Stones and Barkley)... or at least I fucking hope not!

You cant use the players injury as evidence of being proven right, unless of course you are psychic too and in which instance I would like tomorrow nights lottery numbers please Using Vic as a comparison is insulting. Vic's all round play isnt as good as Kones and not by a long shot. Vic does chip in with the odd goal and that all you want from your lone striker then yeh we may as well have kept Vic but if you want to build attacks from him, if you want him to interchange intricate passes in tight areas and have someone that will look to create a chance and score one, then he simply isnt good enough and thats why Martinez moved him on. In the last 2 seasons Kone has played in 39 games, creating 43 chances and scoring 11 in the League. Vic played in 50 games, creating 45 chances and scored 9. It should also be taken into account that Vic normally played alongside a second striker in half of those appearances with West Brom which will make the job easier for him whereas Kone was almost always been played as a lone striker. By comparison, Lukaku averages roughly one chance a game but scores more, Jelavic created 1 chance per 2 games and scored roughly 10 goals over 2 seasons, Giroud is 1 chance a game almost exactly with roughly the same goal ratio, Etoo is 1 chance a game but 1 in 2 goals per game. I could go on but I think you get my point!

I agree, his wages would be a huge stumbling block for me but his link up play was still top class last season once he had got himself fully up to speed again. I think he was much maligned last season due to the media and Mourinho ' s striker comments and whilst he wasn't the Etoo if a few season's back he still made a pretty big contribution.

You would have to assume that he is going to be fit enough to play as a starting striker in this scenario. Even with his previous knee injury he was playing week in week out for Wigan with no problems. Again you say they created a lot of chances and therefore he should have scored the goals he did but how without too many real creative players how did they come about creating those chances? Kone was a big part of them being able to do that. I was a big fan of his at Wigan so no blue specs here. Personally I see a lot of comments just like I did with Alcaraz and McCarthy labelling them as shit just because they played for Wigan with no understanding of the skills they bring to the table. Again a lot of players in the league will be wishing they could have the 'below average to par journeyman' career he has had.

Same here.

Yeh he wasnt good, clumsy with the ball at his feet like Hibbert too! Browning strikes me as a player that wont necessarily shine until he starts playing in his preferred role which looks to be a CB but from what I saw of him at the end of the last 2 games at LB he seemed pretty straight forward. No thrills, just gets the job done and isnt a headless chicken. Similar to Stones at RB but a little less mature, probably due to limited playing time so far in his career.

I presume you mean 10 goals a season as a starting striker? Why do you think he wouldnt do that with us considering he could do that at Wigan (and most clubs he has played for)?

I agree with everything you have said in your last few posts on here. His link up play is excellent, how anyone can just class him as a counter attacking striker is beyond me. Yes he can do it but he can also play the possession game too. He should have scored his chances in the games he played but people seem to overlook that he managed to be involved in an incredibly high amount of goal scoring opportunities given his limited time on the field. His worldwide goal scoring record shows that he knows where the back of the net is and combined with his around play he could prove to be a huge asset in this team, especially in those games where Lukaku will generally struggle to impose himself and creating chances is difficult. I just hope for the lad that he can get fit and stay fit so he can show what he can do. Regarding the fee, various reports range from 4.5mil to 6 mil do if he was bought in for £4.5mil the I think that is good business.

When I watched him for City the other night against Olympiakos he was worse than Hibbert. Id rather we just keep what we have and use Stones/Browning if that is the position we are going to use him in.

If they are going to bring in more points through their performances then they are going to lose from the disruption then you have to weigh up whether its a risk you want to take. My point is that I dont see the point in taking the risk on a player who isnt worth it and clearly doesnt have enough respect for his employers, the fans and the game itself to get himself in shape. Wanting someone based on reputation is more of Liverpool fan thing which also seems to be happening on the Richards thread as well.

I dont know why either, although he does say if fit and in form so its probably just a diplomatic answer. I would say though that his ryder cup records are probably a little better than it looks. In the singles he has a pretty decent record (4-4-1) and he is 13-14-2 overall. He was also a very good match play golfer as an amateur. In the team games he still played pretty well, but there is only so much one person can do in that format and I doubt there will be too many American golfers (given Europes recent dominance) that will have a better record. If he is fit and in the form of old then, I agree with Watson in that he should be picked. However, that is about as likely as Marco creating a pun thread!

Fair enough, you would presume that it means he is out of the door then. No point in having 2 first team keepers unless you are going to rotate the two. I dont know if Koeman has a history of it?

If Ben Arfa was even a 10th as good as Maradona you would take the risk but he isnt. I also dont think Maradona caused as much trouble in the dressing room as Ben Arfa already has.

The point is that the players are still on the go. The players would have been on the go for 12 months straight almost which if its me and you in our daily grind, it doesnt make much difference because we can probably operate on 75% all year round. If I had more time off, I would be much sharper but my overall performance at work isnt as important as a footballers and it isnt the public eye. Imagine if your every action at work was scrutinized by millions. In any profession, if you want someone to be at their best, which they need to be in football, then they need to have their periods of rest more for mental reasons than anything. You only have to look at other sports, especially individual sports to see how professionals target specific events and build themselves into the bigger tournaments etc. They dont go out and play week in week out, they have a break, freshen up and then taper their programme to peak at a specific target. Its more difficult for football for obvious reasons but if it was a case of just turning up each tournament and playing then they would be playing week in week out. Personally I would have thought that both players would have had enough time to unwind, freshen up and get back at it but Martinez has other plans and if he thinks he can get Lukaku and Mirallas match fit and in the right frame of mind for the new season without any games under their belt then who I am to question that. It will be interesting to see if they do start and if they do, what type of impact they have, but I suspect we will see the benefits over the course of the season even if we might not necessarily be able to measure it. I wonder how Pearson is approaching the game too. He doesnt know whether he is going to have the pace, strength and directness of Lukaku and Mirallas or the more thoughtful and smarter movement of Naismith and Pienaar, or even a combination of the two.