pax

Jesus! A goal scoring, athletic, great tackling, defensive midfielder who has skill in abundance. David Batty he aint and for the life of me can not understand why he has any critisism at all. He can do so much more than " a Makele". A far better player than some believe.

11 goals in 73 games is not exactly what i would call 'goal scoring'.

Why on earth is he not running the Barcelona midfield if he is the most complete player to ever live, as per your description.

He's not fit to lace the boots of players like Xavi, Ineista and Essien and think i'd better leave this thread well alone as i fear some of your are quite mad.

Hail Fellaini, the player who makes Maradona look decidedly average

All I can really offer is that if felli was not a good player would he be attracting clubs the size of the ones who have showed interest?

Name one actual bid that has been made for him? Not media speculation and rubbish, an actual bid.

Well if you cant accept that you are very much in the minority then we will just have to agree to disagree

 

But thank God Moysie doesnt share your opinion!

If you can show me where i have once stated i'm not in a minority, then i will follow suit and claim Fellaini is the greatest player to ever touch grass.

Stop making things up.

If that was the case then fair enough but its not.

 

Its not merely a few more people its an overwhelming majority

You would be hard pushed to find anybody on the froum or at Goodison who agrees with you on this one. It

 

Incidently which superlatives cant you beleive?

Actually, quite a few of the people who sit near me in the Park End don't rate Fellaini as a consistent footballer, so that kind of puts your theory in check and proved my theory that no one is right or wrong, it's just opinions.

Which superlative? All of them.

Poor bill, being hung out to dry my arse. You want to be the chairman of the 4th most successful club in the English league then take the pressure that comes with it. no investment over ten years, mixed with lies, empty promises cushioned by a manager that has effectively saved his arse. Everyone has an opinion of the current chairman as they have had enough info to have an opinion, are you deluded enough to actually think we now need to justify his replacement with due diligence of our supposed candidate?

 

To summarise and answer your final point, it is clear to the majority that Anichebe is not the answer, in identifying that, does it make it our job to source his replacement?

Being the 4th most successful club in the English League means absolutely nothing. Stop living in the past, live in the now and get a huge dose of reality. Everton used to be a top team who won things. We are not that now and haven't been for a very very long time. We have no divine right to win things and no divine right to consider ourselves a big club.

No investment because there is no money to invest. Exactly what part of that do you not understand? Have you seen what happened to Leeds when they spent money they don't have? Have you seen what happened to the world when we spent money we had no way of paying back? It's basic financial common sense to only spend what you have and can afford. That's exactly what the board have done. What promise did Bill make?

How do you have enough info to have an opinion? Are you privy to board meetings, our accounts or sensitive and confidential club matters? No, so it's 100% impossible for you to have any solid evidence to form any sort of credible opinion. You know nothing apart from rumours, propaganda and media reports. If you know more, then state it.

Yes, it seems i am deluded enough to think anyone who buys Everton should be vetted to the end of the earth. I'm deluded enough to not want the type of owner who took Portsmouth down, Newcastle down, Birmingham down, West Ham down etc etc.

Your Anichebe comparison is ridiculous and make no sense. But to try and make sense of it, i will ask you a question. How many strikers are there playing football compared to billionaire individuals or groups who want to chuck £500 million at a football club with no chance of a return?

What is it you don't understand about the fact that there is no one out there who wants to buy Everton?

 

 

He is the most complete midfielder in the Premiership and is certainly the best player in the country in his position. I certainly wouldnt swap him for Essien (long term knee injury yet again)

 

 

Felli would walk in to any team in the Prem he is that good. I know its all about opinions but when there are so many people disagreeing so strongly with you and you cant find anyone who thinks your right then maybe its time to admit you have got it wrong.

 

When you say you have watched him a lot and he is cumbersome a lot of the time then I can only assume that you only watch him in training because I watch Everton home and away and more often than not he is the stand out performer!

Can't quite believe some of those superlatives you have used. Also, having a majority agreeing on one side does not make anything right or wrong. I certainly am not wrong because a few more people on a web forum disagree with me rather than agree with me. That's ludicrous. One or two economists predicted the global financial meltdown we have just gone through, does that mean they were wrong because nearly every other one economists said it wouldn't amount to what it did?

Oh and your assumptions are also wrong.

So strange how some simply cannot accept other peoples opinions and foolishly think they can tell someone their opinion is wrong or right when there is no wrong or right.

when they don't trust that kenwright isn't looking for a new buyer i think they should then put up some suitable candidates to ask the question why hasn't bill gone to him etc..that's the way i see it anyways..not sayin all the kill bill squad are the same but i think a lot go with the crowd out of frustration..i'm more behind bill than against(although on the fence more as of later) but the main reason i am is because i feel he is doin what he can and won't sell us to a complete moron..also because i can't think of anyone other than paul mccartney and that wouldn't ever happen

Is that simply picking out some people from a list of the worlds billionaires and getting down on our knees and asking them to waste £500 million on a football team they have probably never heard of with no chance of a return?

Lord Granchester is the obvious candidate, but if he wanted to put money into Everton, he'd have done it a long time ago.

I concur completely with your stance on Kenwright.

I think the reason for that is I've just spent the last 5 days earning money doing what I'm paid to do. I'm sure if it was my area of expertise that I was paid to do then I would have plenty of knowledge on the matter.

 

Why is it that fans on the street are meant to have in depth knowledge on the potential replacements for bill and co? Do we just go through Forbes magazine? Or Is there a scouting database ala football manager where you can pick an ideal candidate based on the following : liquid assets, ships owned, tendency to lie, true love of football?

 

Do we get to pick who replaces anichebe? Or is it enough that the fans recognise he can't take us where we need to be and rely on the highly paid 'experts' to select his replacement? Is it us who needs to suggest a new site for a stadium? Is it us who decide on a new system that ensures more pies and pints can be served at half time?

 

No it's not enough that we turn up in thousands and hand money over to the club, we need to challenge the problems and suggest the solutions?!

Why is it that the fans on the street consider themselves informed enough to hang Bill out to dry, but yet not informed enough to consider a viable replacement? I always find it beyond ignorant when people shout for change, but have no idea what that change is or in what form it will take.

There is no credible, vastly wealthy person(s) interested in buying Everton. If anyone believes otherwise, they are completely deluded. If anyone also thinks that BK wouldn't sell the club to a credible and vastly wealthy person, then they are also completely deluded. You can gather all the highly paid experts in the world to search for a buyer, if no one wants to buy what can they do?

Everton have no money. What exactly would you like to see happen to generate enough funds for a new stadium?

Oh and by the way, i really didn't get your Anichebe comparison.

All well and told when we have saleable assets on the pitch, what happens when ALL our best players are sold? We wont be buying in the next best but the third best players, thus depleting the pool from which other teams will want to buy from. West Ham did it with Cole, Lampard, Ferdinand etc, and replaced them with what? Third rate players, we COULD go the same way.

At what stage did i say we need to sell 'ALL' our best players? West Ham is not the model i would want to follow and not what i suggested. I always find 'could' to be a very subjective word. The world COULD flood tomorrow and everyone and everything dies. The financial climate is also nothing near what is was when West Ham held an auction for all their best players. The whole business of football has transformed dramatically. Selling a player for a large transfer fee every 4 years to fund the purchase or 3 or 4 more players seems to be quite a solid policy right now. We also seem to have a good record of doing it.

Or, we have that other plan to raise large funds for fresh players every three to four years, only problem is, i can't quite remember what the other plan is, could you remind me?

Bill Kenwright must go. Easy, isn't it? But then who comes in?

Ask any 'the board and Bill must go and go now' person this question above and you it will be met with blank, clueless and gormless faces. If there were plenty of solid options for people to come in and take over the club, i'd be inclined to join the Bill must go brigade, but if that were the case, i think Bill would join too.

Yes we can attract the equivalent of what they were several years before - but that is not a model for progress.

Why not? Why in the current financial climate is this not a good model for the future. Buy low, sell high. Seems to be a pretty good way of making large sums of money, especially when there aren't any other ways that Everton can make that kind of money.

We've gone from consistent relegation candidates to consistent European qualification on the base of a good manager and the Rooney, Johnson and Lescott money.

Doesn't look a bad option and i think our only option right now.

I strongly advise you to go and get every head test you can.

 

Other than Baines who was are best player last season by a mile, Fellaini has the most class and he is probably the only player in our team who would play regulary in any team in our league. He has had bad games everyone else has but not many players have got the better of Yaya Toure last season who was my player of the year. Arteta on his day is as good as Fellaini but we might never see him at his best I hope im wrong. I personally wouldnt sell him unless we got a stupid bid I would rather lose Rodwell at 30 Million which after last season is a stupid valuation even though I do think he will become a legend at us if he stays loyal but not many people do these days.

I strongly advise you learn that others have differing opinions to yours and that there is no absolute correct answer, which means no one is right or wrong.

I think the best midfield player in the league by some considerable distance is Essien. I think he's twice the player Toure is and on a different planet to Fellaini.

Now don't go getting your knickers in a twist, as all the above is my opinion only. I'm not right, i'm not wrong, i'm just expressing my opinion.

Sorry Pax, I think you may well be talking the best of it as feared. I was not a fan of Fellaini for a good while, I could not see how he could impact the premier league, his lack of pace being the concern.

 

He is one of the most composed on the ball at the club - if not the most.

 

He is one of only two players we have that would get in any premier league team alongside Baines. Tell me a midfielder who breaks up play, offers an ariel threat and retains and shows for the ball as much as him? - £25m? Liverpool paid £20m for a player slightly younger who could not lace his boots. A player who despite felli being injured could not get near him at goodison when sunderland visited.

 

With prices being quoted for others he is £35m plus.

Think we'll just have to agree to disagree

I have to disagree with many points in this reply pax... I suppose one of the only matches you saw fellaini play in besides that City match would have been Bolton away? Where everyone else was shocking that day, his ball retention for a big fella is spot on, hes now calm under presuure and if you remember just before his injury he again was playing his best football, hes a complete midfielder, an excellent one at that, and me for one, would be hugely disapointed to lose such a talented player, but not only that your talking of losing our main man in the middle of the park, someone whos great in a tackle and can also spread play nicely...

 

For me out of the players listed i would sell rodwell as at the moment hes still not a solid starter in our team, he cant even get starts for the england u21s!

Yes, before his injury he had played very well for a few games. I also know the lad is young and will improve, but i've watched him play a lot and he is cumbersome a lot of the time. He gives the ball away easily and panics when put under pressure. He also isn't the quickest player around the pitch. Rodwell i feel for. Moyes needs to make up his mind where Rodwell is going to play and start playing him there consistently. I see huge potential in the boy and this could be a defining season for him if managed correctly. Being able to play Rodwell in his chosen position would help if we had more options, which would only come from the sale of a valuable player. Fellaini to me is not a £15 million player. He isn't a £10 million player. So if, and if is the key word here, wanted to offer £25 million or more, it's simply not a deal our club could turn down right now.

You could easily play JH in front of the back 4, Arteta as the play maker in the middle of the park with Rodwell (who i believe is a good passer) Osman could play on the right and we could potentially go out and get some like N'zogbia to play down the left. Wigan will want around £12 million (not sure when his contract is up) for him, leaving £8 million to fund a new striker. Sell Yobo and possibly Yak, we might get £6 million to £8 million for those to, suddenly things aint too bad.

Fell @ £25 million + Yak and Yob @ £8 million.

£6 million to service debt, £12 million for N'Zogbia and leave £15 million for a striker and possible another player or two.

That's my theory anyway. I also have a feeling i'm talking shite as i can't believe anyone would pay £25 million for Fel just now (or in the future).

Of course it's hard to stomach when you hear about other clubs making transfers & yes I would love us to have money to spend, but I am still not convinced about the majority of big take overs. I apologise if I get any of the wrong, but the way I see it:

 

Real Madrid - 'Galacticos', spent big for years. Currently living in the shadows of some other club.

Leeds - Gamble failed to pay off.

Portsmouth - Do they still exist?

West Ham - Icelandic owners went bust in the global recession.

Birmingham - Discussed in another post.

Liverpool - almost went into admin before being bought out by current owners. Now spending over the top on slightly above average players.

Blackburn - sacked a manager who was doing well for them. Almost relegated.

Man Utd - tonnes of debt. Only able to continue due to the massive commerciality of the club. Any other club would have been in trouble right now.

Chelsea - Some success, gone through several managers, ageing squad. Need big investment in order to dominate English football. Investment written off as a loan, meaning when Ambramovich gets bored, they either go bust or someone has to pay of Ambroviches investment.

Aston Villa - Not progressed any further than us. Seem to sell their best players (Young, Milner, Barry, etc).

Man City - Starting to look dangerous, not won anything yet (apart from the FA Cup). Scared of Everton.

UK Banking system - was great & had a system countries across the world wanted. Until 2008. Then everything changed. Had to be bailed out.

 

There may have been other examples i've missed, but based upon the above I can't say i'm too unhappy with our position. Also, as with the UK banking system everything can look great, but then look how quickly things can change. The grass always looks greener....

You and i think in very similar ways It's staggering how many failed takeovers of football clubs there have been and how many Everton fans would still sell the club to the first person who came along telling fables about the amount of money they would make available.

People don't seem to understand, that in the grand scheme of things, Everton are in a very very good position right now. Our biggest asset is the manager, we can't afford to lose him.

If someone offered £25 million for Fellaini, i'd do cartwheels. I think Fellaini has put in one of the most complete performances as a midfielder i have seen in an Everton shirt vs Man City. However, i largely think the guy is over rated, inconsistent and simply not up to the pace of the Prem league week in week out. His passing is also pretty awful.

If we could sell him, and bring in 3-4 £5 million pound players or a £10 million winger and a £10 million striker, i'd consider that to be excellent business for the club. I'd rather sell Fellaini than Baines or Rodwell (and maybe even Coleman).

Launched.

 

Very smart....like it a lot.

 

Keepers shirt is a disaster imo.

Shame you can't buy an adults shirt without CHANG on it. Best shirt IMO.

The biggest one is spending £20million on players before the expected money was available. As a result the club had to sell players and take out a 25 year mortgage. It'll take £50m+ to pay back. The Chairman at the time, Sir Philip Carter is still a director at the club, at the time Bill Kenwright was a major shareholder having bought into the club via True Blue Holdings. Present director Jon Woods was also a director at the time.

 

Not offering Dan Gosling a contract in writing and missing out on any possible compensation.

 

Not having an agreement in writing with promoters Alexander Ross for the 2007 Vodacom Challenge, Alexander Ross later opted to take Spurs to South Africa instead. Everton took Alexander Ross to court where the case was dismissed, Everton missed out on a pre-season tour and also paid legal expenses of £300k because of it.

 

The problems with the new building on the park end, publicly giving three reasons at differing times why it could not be done, only for it to transpire that Everton could not obtain permission from the Prudential (who hold the deeds to the land, due to the above mortgage being used to secure Goodison as collateral) to lease out to a third party.

 

Pursuing the stadium in Kirkby when it became apparent that it was not what it was originally thought to be. An AGM was called where questions were asked because it had been looked at indepth by fans, and shareholders were told it'll be alright on the night. The failed project cost £3m spread over two years.

 

This one is not a reason why Bill Kenwright should go but I found it odd that the board preferred to bring a retired octogenarian back onto the board, rather than elect a new director who in theory could offer a new dynamic to the board.

1) Are the figures you quoted accurate? Isn't this what a lot of the clubs supporters would wrongly deem 'ambition'? I'm a bit of an old school person, you don't buy anything unless you can pay for it. Simple as that. However, is this not a mistake that the board made and has actually shaped the future financial commitments and strategy of the club? It's clearly, in retrospect, a mistake, but one that is understandable in an attempt to push Everton up the league and one that hasn't been repeated?

2) Basic, stupid and completely unacceptable. Not that i think Gosling is much of a loss but the couple of million we'd have got for him is sorely missed at a cash strapped club. Not 'life changing' though.

3) Meh

4) Answer to this is probably the same as point 1.

5) I'm not entirely sure anyone has access to the facts on this. There is plenty of conjecture but not hard facts from those involved with the decision making process. I find it hard to comment.

6) I know nothing about this. Seems strange, but surely there is a valid reason?

My point about this is that none of these things are going to change the football club. None of these things are going to deliver success. The finances of football now are ludicrous. Only the rich can survive and prosper. There is and never will be any shame in being a football club that operates on strict budgets.

As far as i can see, football is pretty much dead. If you are not a huge, famous club or how a billionaire owner, forget about it. The game is over. Players wages and demands are killing every single football club in the world without a sugar daddy or access to huge revenue streams. Unless world wide salary caps are introduced with quota's for home grown talent, then the bigger clubs are going to pull further and further away from the rest. The owners of the big clubs in this country have no understanding of English football, they have no sense of duty to English football. It's all about money. What delivers the most money, the Champions League. What will deliver them more money, the players more money, a European Super League. Is this the revenue stream the Arabs have had a eye on from the start with Man City, probably. You think the Glazers, The Russian, The Yanks at Liverpool, whoever is in charge at Arsenal would turn down the opportunity to compete in a European Super League? You think the biggest Italian clubs would turn down the chance to revive themselves etc etc.

Everton as a football club needs to act in a financially responsible manner and ensure Premier League status. It might hit some people hard, but that is the reality of football and i don't see it getting much better.

Both aforementioned clubs are in champions league and won domestic cups. We have not had success, we have survived and done better than expected. Im not saying spend stupid amounts of money - you need to spend wisely. We ain't even spending.

Man City are in the Champions League purely down to luck. Luck that the commonwealth games gave them a brand spanking new stadium for nothing. Then an Arab born into vast sums of money chose Man City as his play toy. The ironic aspect of all this is the probability that Manchester United's fame and succes ultimately led the Arab to City that and the free stadium (£350 million saved there) and the fact the club could be bought relatively cheaply.

Real Madrid, well its the worst kept secret in football that Spanish Royal family help them out and banks bend over backwards to offer them money and terms that no other club could get near. What happens when they need to pay some money back, they sell their training ground for an amount that dramatically over values the asset. Even Barcelona are heavily in debt. In Real and Barca we are talking about two of the richest clubs in world football, two of the most famous clubs in world football with huge global revenue streams, the best and more famous players in the world and still they are both heavily in debt. What chance do Everton have.

We shouldn't be spending a penny if we don't have.

Birmingham had success this season in the Carling Cup. What league are they playing in next year?

Well done bill, whilst you are keeping the wolves from the door have a word with the rest of the little piggies in the house to stump up some money for essential maintenance

There aint no money honey !

I'd like to see 2 strikers played more, especially if we are unable to sign a winger or two who have out and out pace. Moyes needs to take more risks going forward, especially when our better players are injury free.

Buy being forced to sell everything that isn't nailed down. Including yobo we have sold about 8 mil of players and reduced the wage bill by 50k a week +. How can we not afford fucking anyone when Stoke are bidding 16mil

Stoke are funded by bet365 money.

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys!

Jags, Arteta, Piennar, Coleman, Baines, Lescott have all been signed for relatively small amounts of money. You don't need the repulsive and sickening amounts of money Real Madrid and Man City throw at players to be successful.

By saying people who don't support BK are doom merchants when there's a list as long as a black man's dick for why there are fans who want rid of him.

 

For me, it's the board as a whole who need getting shut of, they're all useless, but BK is their figurehead and put the board together so he's going to get the brunt of the flak from supporters.

I would really like someone to list the reasons for getting rid of our board and Bill Kenwright. I'd like to see genuine reasons that can't be attributed to the creation of the Premier league, the distribution of tv money since the creation of the premier league and Everton as a football clubs failure to promote the club through out different markets through out the world when they had opportunity. Genuine failures, by Kenwright and his Board where blame can solely be placed at their feet.

So...Welcome to TT PAX

Why thank you My username is rather ironic considering the way this thread wanted to go