pax

The Prisoners post on us having no option but to sell Felli if the Madrid rumour turns out to be true got me thinking.

 

This time last year there was an unusual amount of optimism about for the season ahead....soon punctured by the poor start.

 

Should we not be equally optimistic this year? We've got the same squad of players with the addition of the occasionally useful Beckford. Yak's (at the moment) back and could possibly be in the mood. Seamus has stepped up, Gueye and Velios have had a few promising cameos and Barkley and Baxter are closer to challenging.

 

I don't see that any of the teams around us have made big steps forward, so I don't think we have to sell anyone....and certainly not Fellaini (or Baines imo).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a winger or two and a twenty goal striker but if we get a decent start and play close to our potential then I think we could have a very good season with what we've got.

I disagree. I think we can finish 8th, 9th or 10th next season, but without a striker, playing well and fit for most of the season, we can do no better. There is a distinct lack of creativity and pace in our team that i think gets more exposed every season. When teams play against us, they know they can commit players forward as we don't have the pace to counter attack and expose their lack of numbers at the back. We also now only have one player, Arteta, who has that creative spark. Piennar had it and we are seriously going to miss him this season. Especially his combination with Baines own the left.

Can we drag Limpar and Kanchelskis out of retirement, as they are the two type of players this club badly needs.

Kenwright was on Peter Johnson's board wasn't he? So he played a role in that mess.

Yeah, Johnson made him vice chairman, which was actually staggering on Johnson's part as they had opposed each other for control. Kenwright had actually backed out of the running as he didn't want a public spat over the ownership of the club. Very strange decision and not one i think was in the best interests of the football club. Johnsons however, was a self confessed Liverpool support, who owned Tranmere and Everton. If anyone, in the history of Everton football club, bought it purely to make money, it's Johnson. A man who left the club immediately after selling Duncan Ferguson behind Walter Smith's back.

The feeling a lot have on here towards Bill Kenwright, well i share those feelings, but mine are directed at Johnson, not Kenwright.

yes i do, its my opinion.

and you are very welcome to it

With the way English football is with the big clubs having so much money you can’t keep anyone good anymore. It’s what’s happening to the NFL here that why we have a lockout. I proposed a Scott parker signing because after two or three years he will just retire. Fellaini, Rodwell, and Baines are all going to leave eventually. I just don’t mind being realistic. Better to sell and use the money on an older replacement than let him leave latter with no answer for it. I am not an Everton expert kind of new at this but obviously we have a money problem and it’s going to be hard to be top 4 without new ownership. I just figured we had a better chance keeping an old player.

 

Also this is why I picked Everton because everything they do is through hard work. But with all the money out there it’s hard to be top 4. When you sign potential all the rich clubs sit back, foaming at the mouth waiting for them to bloom. It happens to my Panthers and Hurricanes all the time.

That's interesting, i thought the NFL draft system seemed to be one of the most intelligent ways of deciding where the cream of the young players end up? Am i right in thinking that no team has ever won the 'Superbowl' more than two times in a row? It seems to me it's as much of a level playing field as you can get.

As far as i am concerned when it comes to sport you look at the Nations that are consistently the best. In Rugby League it's the Aussies and the Kiwis. Their domestic leagues have pretty much no players from outside of Australia or New Zealand. In both these countries pretty much every player who takes to the field can represent the Nation that club players under. Same in the academies, full of home grown talent. It's exactly the same in Rugby Union. New Zealand dominate with Australia and South Africa not far behind. All their leagues are packed full of home grown talent that can represent their country. The English governing body for Rugby Union are by far the richest Union in the world, but we cannot compete on an international level with the South Hemisphere Countries. Football, Brazil and Argentina. The former being usually the words best team, the latter producing players we could only dream about in this country. Again, all their domestic leagues are jam packed full of home grown talent. Sure, the best players head off for Europe, but they are not replaced by over seas players, they are replaced by home grown youngsters. It's a conveyor belt of talent.

What this all translates to is that all of these countries are producing international teams and club sides, that are the best in the world. Ok, football is the exception, but only because the best talent is bought from the home clubs.

What we need is a world wide salary cap for players. UK salary cap won't work as has been proved in Rugby Union. The biggest clubs in England, like Leicester, have been weakened because of the salary cap and therefore cannot compete with the big French or Irish clubs. So we need a global salary cap. We need a set of rules that say, you can have two players who can earn what you deem, but the rest of the squad must come in under y for the year.

More emphasis needs to be put on producing quality players than buying over seas players, especially the journey men. I'd personally have a maximum of 5 over seas players in a match day squad. The rest must be British with at least 5 players included who came through the clubs academy.

I haven't thought about all of this in great detail and looked at the legals etc, but we need something. A very small minority are flourishing in current conditions and a very large majority are on the end of going bust or become pretty anonymous. The world of football seems to think football is about Messi, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Ronaldo, Chelsea etc. It;s not, it's about every single supporter who pays to watch the game, doesn't matter if its Barca or Bury. As far as i am concerned the game is in a dire position and unless something radical and effective comes in, sooner or later all we will be left with is one European Super League, A European Super Cup and the World Cup. That will be it.

Here endeth the lesson, vote Pax for pope

Just ignore, he's a clown. He's had my last reply.

Doesn't surprise me you have had to resort to name calling. It also doesn't surprise me i have apparently had you're last reply, i mean i take apart and challenge everything you consider to be true and you have no answers to it.

So feel free to not reply to me, just watch the name calling in the future, that's beyond infantile.

We do that a lot, we just make things up. You must like it really coz your still here.

I find human behavior fascinating, especially when someone's views are seriously challenged

I too think hes a wind up merchant, hence my last post,

Who's on a wind up, a person who forms his opinion based on facts or people who form their opinion based on nothing but guess work?

The anti Kenwright bridge dealt yet another blow to their credibility by having no response, no debate and nothing to back up your poorly thought out and ill-informed views other than to suggest someone is on a 'wind up'.

C'mon lads, i'm still waiting for the list of facts that prove we should sell the club to someone who is going to take us down, simply to get BK out !

Johnny Cochran is an evertonian, welcome to the board johnny!!!

Sometimes, when you have nothing worthwhile to say or contribute, it's best not to say or contribute anything. Write that down.

I don't mind Kenwright - I actually quite like him, but reading those quotes - it's not good is it?!

Not good, but also not what some would like you to believe either. I just like to poke holes in all the absolute rubbish that is said and written that is based on nothing but guesses.

When you deal with business and finance at this level, things go wrong and change on a daily basis. If i was personally going to post what i think is Kenwrights biggest failings as chairman, it would be that he doesn't anticipate problems well and doesn't have any plan b when plan a fails.

The biggest crimes were committed in in the late 80's and early 90's. That's when this club was sold up the river and when we planned to fail for the foreseeable future.

we get it, you don't rate him. what's the point of repeating it every five seconds?

 

Um, i didn't repeat anything. I was laughing that someone thought Fellaini was worth as much as Modric. I'm outstandingly sure i've never made this comment before, which means i haven't repeated myself once.

It seems people on this forum like to accuse me of doing things and saying things i haven't done. Fascinating stuff

You're quick!!!

 

They're all quotes straight from Kenwright - do they not make you cringe?

No, they don't make me cringe. I live in the real world.

No one has posted anything to alter my stance on this football club and Bill Kenwright and i highly doubt anyone will.

 

“I’ve not got the big money, but I promise to find investment” – Bill Kenwright January 2000 after acquiring EFC. Still waiting 11 years on

 

“The NTL deal is secured” – Bill Kenwright September 2000. The deal fell through

 

” I wouldn’t sell Rooney for £50m” – Bill Kenwright June 2004. In August he was sold for a deal worth £27m

 

“The fortress money will be in the bank in the morning” – Bill Kenwright speaking at the EGM (remember them?) September 2004. The deal collapsed and was never explained

 

“Kirkby will be a world class arena, effectively free and with the best transport links in the UK” – Bill Kenwright speaking at the AGM November 2006

 

“If we don’t leave Goodison soon the place will lose its safety certificate” – Bill Kenwright December 2007

 

“David will have cash to spend this summer” – Bill Kenwright May 2009. We spent nothing until the sale of Lescott.

 

“Joleon is not for sale” – Bill Kenwright August 2009

 

‘’David will have cash to spend this summer’’ – Bill Kenwright, May 2010

 

Reading/recalling these makes me feel a right mug!

 

I'm not one of these calling for Kenwright's head but he doesn't help himself does he?!

1) Name someone who has made a bid for Everton.

2) Why did it fall through and who's fault is that? What happened to NTL as a business and company?

3) Maybe he meant he wouldn't sell Rooney as long as Rooney wanted to stay at the club? What is he supposed to do, let a player rot in the reserves because he doesn't want to play for the club and literally let his contract expire and let him go for nothing?

4) You have no clue what happened here and no clue who's fault it was.

5) And? Are you telling me when you are working on a project on this scale things don't change, this out of your control?

6) Are you kidding me? This is one of your 'facts'?

7) Maybe Moyes couldn't get the players he wanted so chose not to spend?

8) See point 3. As far as i can see every attempt was made to keep him.

As has been said on each of the last four pages, there are facts, it's just you'v not seen them. But no one here is Gunna go back through years of topics to find them for you.

There are no facts, there is only speculation. No one is 'gunna' go back through years of topics and find them for me is because there are no facts, just speculation and guess work.

Oh and in case you were not paying attention, i haven't started one thread since joining. So it's not like im dragging up old news.

I know it's difficult, but pay attention to the facts.

 

 

Fellaini linked with a £19-24m move to Real Madrid: http://www.rtl.be/sport/football/footballetranger/222060/fellaini-prochaine-recrue-du-real-madrid-pour-27m-

Fingers crossed for a £25 million sale. I won't be holding my breath for an actual bid though.

didnt realise you could sell parts of a player nowadays. that might get his 2 arms and a leg. If Modric is going for 30, Felli is at least that...

You think Fellaini is worth as much as Modric

but if you aren't able to state the positives would you not say that the number of negatives would present a strong case for the shouts of "board out" etc ?

 

Was he and the board responsible for the failure to promote the club through different markets throughout the world? That's a bit like saying to Ryan Giggs wife that she shouldn't be too hard on him as at least he didn't pay. You don't know the details as to why Kings Dock was failure, but you know who failed to provide it - is that not enough? Or was his wasted time pursuing the joke the was DK not enough

 

http://www.vintagebluekipper.com/kingsdock/kingsdockisover.htm

 

A fine piece from Mickey Blue Eyes - whichever way you look at it, Kenwright and the board failed.

I'm not sure how many times i have to state this, but all the negatives you lot come up with are devoid of facts. It's purely speculation. I don't deal in speculation. Can you please indicate how many times i will have to tell you this?

Everton, as a football club, failed to adapt to the Premier League. They failed to promote themselves in new markets and build a new, strong and reliable fan base / revenue stream. Liverpool are the same. Epic failure on behalf of the John Moores. Liverpool should have swept all aside in terms of revenue. When they premier league started, both clubs stood still and did nothing. Man Utd, the most successful Premier League club by some distance marketed themselves everywhere they could. They started selling all manner of products to new and lucrative markets. This is why Man Utd are the club they are. Liverpool, with the brand and name they had, could have dominated world markets had they applied even the slightest amount of creativity and forward thinking.

So who do i blame for Everton's current position, mainly Phillip Carter and then Petter Johnson. As far as i am concerned the damage was done under these two and Kenwright has inherited a club that can't create any significant revenue at a time when large investment is needed to kick start the club. Massively inflated transfer fee's, player wages, a new stadium and marketing and promotion of the club is all something put at Kenwright's door and it's simply not his fault the club have no way to finance it all.

There is a far bigger picture here than Kenwright.

 

 

I guess you are saying that you have not stated anything positive about Bill and Co? Which may be correct,

Glad we can agree on that.

 

 

But everything listed in your last few posts still leaves the same bottom line on the accounts. Revenue minus costs will always equal profit, your just renaming subsections which can be unravelled by an equally competent accountant anyway.

Yes. Profit, loss is the same. It doesn't tell us anything apart from profit and loss and no an equally good accountant cannot accurately interpret the accounts into specifics unless he is a mind reader.

from what i understand, and please bare in mind ive no idea on finances, companies can play with numbers quite easily and legitimately. For example for tax purposes, a company could sell to itself in 1 country to another, then sell back to itself at a different price, allowing more money to stay within the company in 1 specific tax haven of a country. Then theres ways of playing with figures by declaring different budgets to different areas which doesnt affect always shares. Cant say I understand how its done but i know its done and its all legal.

Absolutely. Your getting into quite complex stuff now, but your are absolutely spot on. Nothing illegal about any of it. This is where accountants are able to get rich, by saving their rich clients fortunes.

Yeah, Deloitte and Touche would be in trouble for allowing it.

They'd be in trouble for allowing what ?

But there'd be fairly serious repercussions if any "creativity" was picked up by the auditors wouldn't there?

 

Some might even go so far as to suggest BK was less than honest (not a view I share as most here well know)!

When i say 'creative' , i certainly don't mean doing anything illegal or even remotely illegal. I'm not saying that at all. You can file certain financial aspects of your business under many different categories within a set of accounts. As a basic example, if i had spent £10 million on buying up some property to expand my supermarket chain, in my personal accounts i would have that marked down as 'Property Acquisition', however for accounts that will be filed at companies house, that are public, i would mark that down as 'Asset Acquisition' or even hide it simply in 'expenditure'. It takes the detail and the specifics out of the published accounts without doing anything even remotely illegal or dodgy.

Good accountants can make a set of published accounts pretty worthless to anyone who reads them apart from expenditure, income and profit + loss. They remove all sensitive details and simply provide figures which are pretty meaningless without those details and specifics.

He's to work with Ray Hall at the academy for a year before taking over completely.

Best news i've heard in a long time that's connected with Everton

I don't understand accounting.

 

Are you saying that there is a different set of accounts to the published ones which do tell an accurate story?

 

Like I said I'm ignorant in these matters but that sounds illegal to me .

Company executives and accountants can be very creative when they publish their accounts. They simply do not portray things as they would for internal accounts. If they did, rivals and competitors would be able to gain a huge amount of information. So they get creative. Nothing illegal about it at all if it's done right.

 

 

HSBC also publish their accounts, so yes, they do let you have the ins and outs of their finances. As do Everton.

See Louis post above about them being published by companies house.

Oh dear lord These are PUBLISHED accounts. If you do not know what that means or how companies declare their accounts then i can't help you. I also can't help you if you think these published accounts tell a perfectly accurate story of how the companies are financially run.

Haf - There's an English guy who was CEO of two US 'franchises'. He wrote to people after seeking permission from Bill Kenwright with a view to selling. The price he gave potential investors was £75m-100m for 75% of the club.

How many people get a slice out of that £75 - £100 million? The English guy won't be brokering this for free and i'm guessing will get a price from Kenwright, anything he sells over that price will reward his efforts handsomely. This is a profit game for anyone brokering a deal to sell anything.