pax

 

Lets say we spent we spent £30m on talent this transfer window on 3 players at £10m each and wages each of £35 a week and we did this by getting a loan of (completely plucked out of the air as I have no idea what current bank interest rates or timescales would be for suchg a large loan) =£30m to be paid back over 5 years at 5% Annual Interest.

 

5% would not be achievable. Any bank loan we get would have to have a 100% guaranteed and there is now way this club is in a position to do that. The only other option would be a loan on a huge interest rate. I do mean silly interest rate as there is a distinct possibility Everton would default on the loan and has the potential to go bust by taking on this level of debt.

 

From your point of view debt isn't a bad thing. Thing is you are working to something - owning your own home, which should increase in value. Debt within an established Football club is different, all it does is take money to service that debt, money that must come from operating profits. This of course then cuts into bottom line and as such something must give..........

No, i said not all debt is bad. Nearly every single company in the world has been run and built up using debt. The mortgage (debt) i took out on my house was not working to something as i was paying an interest only mortgage. I was relying on my judgement and research into the value of the house then and in the future. I got it right and had it not been for interest rates currently being on the floor, i'd have paid the mortgage off in full by now, but there is no point with my mortgage payments being so low. I put the cash into shares during the crash instead. So all the way through the process, i'm servicing the debt and using what cash i have to maximise my returns. When interest rates significantly rise and my mortgage becomes expensive, i'll get rid of the mortgage.

It might be a simplistic model, but for me it's not that different from the way Glazer has bought and services his ownership of Man Utd. Glazer can sell that club for a very decent profit at any time. In fact i think there would be a bidding war between several parties for the club. It's tv revenue money, it's commercial activities around the world, Champions League money etc make sure that Man Utd is financially very strong and easily able to service the debt and continue spending the money it needs to to stay at the top.

Ok, so there are some threats now. AF retiring and the emergence of Man City as a new competitor are quite big threats. But as far as i can see, Glazer is in a strong position unless there are things that we don't know about that changes that.

Beggars can't be choosers. He's a good player, available on a free. Even if we signed him and sold him for a couple of million, it's something we need to be doing.

Hmmmm who would i chose Downing or Johnson?? Is it just me or would you pick Johnson every time!! How much did te muppets across the park pay for Downing?? Its sad really coz if we did sign Johnson it would be a major major boost to everyone of us.

The two most over rated players in the Premier League, in my opinion, are Downing and Milner. Have never been able to understand what the fuss with either of them is about.

A mildly interesting article !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14366574.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14367608.stm

Pretty confident that we will finish above spurs,

Spurs will 100% finish above us !

Depends on injuries but Top 6 not possible. 7th to 9th very likely !

I've gone for 9th !

 

 

It's not the board's job to create greater revenue streams, to find more ways to bring money into the club? What exactly do the board do then?

Yes, that is the boards job. They don't have to do it themselves though, they just need to employ the right people.

United are massively in debt, hence their fans protesting last season.

 

 

 

So? Debt is not always a bad thing. For example i have a 50% mortgage on my house i bought in 2003. My house has doubled in value so the debt i took out to finance the purchase of my house was not bad debt, it was easily serviceable and always had potential to generate good profit for me.

The debt Man Utd have looks to me to be serviceable and they look to be able to continue the spending needed to stay at the top. If both those things continue, who cares how much debt they have?

 

 

I think you have your head firmly stuck in the sand if you honestly beleive that.

The longer we remain at Goodison the further we will fall behind the big boys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Robert Elstone had said to me that he was going to charge me an extra £100 for my season ticket but promised we would spend £30M on players I would have been more than happy to hand over the dosh

You know, there is the idea. There is something concrete to criticise the board for, lack of creative, forward and inventive thinking. When you buy a season ticket you get the option to pay an extra £100 that will go into a find to spend entirely on transfers and is held is a separate account, with regular updates on whats in the pot. I reckon at least 5000 to 10,000 would pay an extra £100 if this was the case. There is an easy £500k to £1 million per year ! Who knows, how much could be generated and if it fails and doesn't work, so what, you have lost nothing and it's cost nothing.

 

 

And you think this board could do for that Everton? Because I have zero faith in that being the case.

Why do the board need to do it?

No chance Everton can follow Man U's model, they would have went into administration if it weren't for some creative book balancing, and also the issue of bonds to their huge fan base.

Here was me thinking it was their ultra successful commercial activity that created numerous significant revenue streams, branding, marketing prior to and during the creation of the premier league that made them one of the richest clubs in the world.

 

That is what put him off buying us (apparently/allegedly) as it wouldn't just be players he would have to fork out for, and as such was why he went for City. He was looking for a club with history and pedigree which we certainly have but as you rightly point out, how commercially viable are we at present.

 

Mansour has invested what £400-500 million thus far? How much does a new state of the art stadium cost these days? Im guessing you could add another £100mill+

 

All of this amounts to us being an unattractive proposition to any potential buyers and there just arent lots of Mansours out there looking to invest. Invest is the wrong word to an extent as invest would suggest you are seeking a return and there are no returns in football these days given the wages, transfer and agents fees.

 

I would rather be where we are and accept mediocrity than massively over leveraged and staring into the financial abyss. Football cannot continue in its current format forever, the vast majority of football clubs (not us though) are technically insolvent.

 

To harp back to Mansour, what happens of he pulls out tomorrow and lets the club go for £1? They dont have the commecial activity to cover half their wage bill and would be in administration before the end of the season, relegation, asset fire sale and a long way back to the big time - look at Leeds

You and i seem to think along the same lines. When a club is solely reliant upon one man's pocket, that club is in danger. Chelsea and Man City are both where they are today because of their owners pocket. Chelsea have built revenue streams but nowhere near the level needed to break even and continue the project in it's current form. Man City will soon realise that the Sheik will have to write off a huge amount of money before they suddenly become a break even project, and that's including the new stadium sponsor deal (which is completely unique and i'm betting if you looked into the fine print of the finances, all its not what it seems). If The Russian and the Sheik pulled out of these two clubs and stopped funding them, they would either need to find new owners with similar bank account and willingness to pour money down the drain (so to speak) or they will go bust and fall down the leagues.

Man Utd and Arsenal are not in this category. They are extremely well run and create the money they spend. I would personally prefer to support Arsenal, have not won anything for a while and have the club as solid as it is, then be a Chelsea / Man City club where one man defines your club and operate under the risks that brings.

Everton need to look at Arsenal and Man Utd as a blueprint of how to operate and absolutely reject the Chelsea / Man City strategies.

New Stadium, well Munich's new stadium was;

The cost of the construction itself ran to €286 million but financing costs raised that figure to a total of €340 million. In addition, the city and State incurred approximately €210 million for area development and infrastructure improvements.

The Emirates (which i went to for the first time on Sat and it's fantastic) cost £470 million

So you have to say a new stadium for Everton is a minimum of £300 million (with land costs and material costs in this country), that's a lot of money.

As far as i am concerned, Goodison Park cannot be re-developed. It's ludicrous to even suggest this as an option. It sadden's me to say that.

Knowing the price of the club should make no difference really. If not privy to the inner workings of the clubs finances. What would it tell us, nothing I would suggest. The club is crying out for a new stadium - As an aside I was told Sheikh Mansour was toying with buying us or Man City, plumped for Man City as they had the stadium already and only needed investment in players.

 

What Im getting at is that anybody wanting to buy the club would need serious investment if they want to break into the top 4. The fair play rules will undermine investment given the relatively poor commercial deals we are involved in. Any potential owner will have to be in it for the long haul.

 

Bottom line - We are a fantastic club, with a great tradition and proud history. No bias at all but the best fans in the world.

 

Im not happy with the status quo but I would rather that than have our finances splashed all over the tabloids whether they are good or most likely piss poor

I agree with your comments entirely. However i don't believe the bit in bold. I don't believe he was interested in buying our club due to the fact several hundred million pounds would be needed for a new stadium, which would immediately rule us out. They would have been given a list of clubs that were available for purchase and they would have had a detailed account of the pro's and con's of each club. Most would have been rejected immediately based on size of fan base, brand name, investment needed off the pitch etc etc.

But you are right, Man City were for a few reasons, the main one being the brand spaning new stadium the council had delivered them.

When you asses Everton in it's current state as an investment, it's incredibly easy to see why we have not found a buyer.

Has anyone actually set up any sort of account for fan donations? Might sound stupid but this is an easy way to try and generate funds for the club, a club that can do with anything they can get their hands on.

A few examples at varying levels.

30,000 people at £100 = £30 million

5000 people at £100 = £500,000

5000 people at £10 = £50,000

The likely hood is that you will get some donating £5, or £10 and some might put in a few k or even more.

For me, something far more supportive and productive for the football club than something like 'The Peoples Group'.

Something like this would create far more media attention for the club than any of these negative groups, it would be positive media attention for the club and also, if successful (on any level) it would show an investor the club has a loyal, supportive and unique fan base that would make the club seriously investable. If the club isn't investable as it stands (which is my opinion), the fans can make it investable to someone.

Just a thought.

Pax, if you didnt attack people so much and not let a different opinion stand, you would not have to defend yourself.

 

no one else here seems to need to defend or attack others, only you.

I think we'll just have let you're opinion stand that i both attack others and don't allow opinions to stand, however my disregard and utter rejection of said opinion should be duly noted.

Would anybody take the £12 mil now so we could hijack N'zogbia, or rather wait it out and look else where?

Not a chance. When you are Everton are you have to sell to buy, you must realise all the potential when bigger, richer clubs start circling. £18 million is the first point we should consider and not a penny less than that.

The way Everton seem to do business, I wouldnt be surprised if a non-disclosure even regarding an enquiry would be required, which would mean investors who have approached wouldnt be allowed to release a statement like that.

I highly doubt it. They might be required to sign a non-disclosure about specific finances, including the offer that was made, the amount the club are asking and any information about the clubs finance, but there is very little chance they would get these kind of people to sign a non-disclosure denying them the right to release their interest, the fact they made an offer and their feelings.

That type of non-disclosure isn't even evident in the biggest takeovers of global business's and brands.

everton fans would know if they're bein priced out? still don't get this how much question..say they said it's for 50million then what? the fans would instantly know who could afford it and get in touch with them? how would the fans know who is bein priced out whatever the cost..only the people who can afford a football club know if they can and in that case i'm sure they would be told a figure of what to pay

Exactly, and, as i have said many many times, if someone really wanted to buy Everton and Kenwright/TheBoard were asking silly money for the club and stopping it's development with greed, the potential buyer simply releases a statement to the media along the lines of;

'We were very interested in buying Everton and approached it's owner with a view to a purchase. Unfortunately the price being asked for the club does not represent the value we place on the club, which is frustrating and unfortunate. We believe we have a great long term strategy for the club with careful placed investment, we'd have been able to immediately clear the clubs debts, hand the manager funds for new players and the problem of the stadium and extending commercial activities would have been addressed as a priority. We believe we have offered the owners of Everton a fair price for the club and we believe we would have offered the supporters of Everton the strategic investment they crave.'

Does anyone on this forum think that it would be;

a) In anyway difficult for a potential investor to release a statement like this?

b ) Kenwright and the Board could hold onto power if something like this was released.

Pax you've done more posts arguing with people rather than actually talk about everton.

One has ones right to defend ones-self.

have i missed pax bein 3 times more of a dickhead than me again? r

No

 

There you go.

Some would say my arrival has given Hafnia's little online persona purpose since i arrived, others would say he's developed a man crush, all I know is that he dedicates far too much time to responding and talking about me ! The little fella cant seem to get enough of me. Maybe it's because I had an answer for all his childish conspiracy theories or maybe because i have exposed him as the type of fan who would have welcomed Carson yeung to goodison with open arms.

Oh, and a pedant's will is a pedant's way !

If he goes it's haagaland from fulham for me.

Yep, good player

 

Where is your proof?

That is just speculation I want hard solid facts!

 

And the prize for the person who doesn't understand the thread title goes to ..............

Nothing babe I've got to be a good boy now, mummy told me off!

As i thought. You are very strange person.