pax

If the club was for sale for say £60m, we would surely be an attractive proposition to an investor who could wipe off our debt, facilitate some form of ground development/move and buy finch farm.

 

With such a takeover, the perennial talk of selling one of our best players to buy two and pay off some debt will be a thing of the past. The likes of fellaini, rodwell, baines, jags need to stay. We have 5 players who within 3 years will be looking at hanging their boots up. What are we going to do then?

 

Be interesting to know how we are up for sale. Kenwright said he isn't interested in diluting His shares. Given the example set by jack Hayward at wolves, he can stop proclaiming to be the true blue he always has done. He shouldn't be out of pocket but he certainly should not expect much on his £20m for 68% of the club. Given the Increase in debt and loss of assets in his tenure.

 

Anyhow, sort that out and we shouldn't have to sell our best players...

In what possible way is Everton an attractive proposition to an investor? An investor has to 1) Buy the club, Wipe out debts, c) Provide money for players, d) provide money for wages, e) Compete with clubs around us with much larger budgets, f) Create new revenue streams and g) Re-develop Goodison Park or build a new stadium.

What possible way is there for Everton to generate the sort of income needed per year to pay that investor back and then provide him with a return?

The Times' Oliver Kay:

Absolutely 100% spot on. Some of our so called 'fans' would do themselves a favor reading that and actually understanding it.

11 years wouldn't be classed as a blind panic, London has won and built an Olympic games in the time he's been supposedly selling the club.

What is it you don't understand about there being no one who wants to buy Everton? An investment that would never provide a return

It is worth noting after saying we should not have access to financial information, that people can buy shares in the club, I myself only have one but I do own part of the club, I am entitled to that information.

Also, saying we do not need to know how much the club is for sale for, buyers also need to know this. It could be helpful in the sale of the club and give shareholders the chance to see what the club value the shares at.

Well if you apply the same sort of logic then i own % of some of the biggest companies in the world. You think Apple or HSBC are going to consult me or let me have the in's and out's of their finances ?

I'm pretty sure anyone who contacts Everton with a view to buying the club, after they have proved they are not tyre kickers will be given all the information they need. Problem for this type of 'buyer' is that thus far our due diligence has proven a big problem.

You seem so obsessed that everything negative about bill is propaganda conjecture speculation or fiction. However you can apply the same to anything positive about him. Hence my point.

 

Is the failure of kings dock speculation, did he not get quoted as saying the ntl money would be in the bank? Did he not introduce the complete bull that was Chris Samuelson and the fortress fund - or is that fantasy??? Tell me did those events happen under his watch?

What positive things about BK have i stated ?

I have never stated the Kings Dock wasn't a failure. What i am stating is that i don't know the details of why it was a failure, so therefore blaming someone would seem beyond stupid and absolutely infantile.

Dispatches have a 'How to buy a football club' investigation on BBC soon. Should be interesting, maybe we'll seem some examples of who Kenwright could have sold to

Can the conspiracy theorists please watch and give their opinions :)

Put it this way, if kenwright told me the weather was 100 degrees, I would put a woolly jumper on. Watch this space, it's ringfenced, will be in the bank tomorrow...

Well that's because you let speculation, the fantasy and conspiracy theories define your opinion.

Can you confirm what was propaganda in my my post?

Why dont you practice what you preach and stop making things up?

What did i make up?

How do you know this? present the facts not propaganda.

How do i know the club is for sale? Bill Kenwright and Keith Harris have publicity stated it's for sale. The owner of the club and the man charged with selling it have confirmed it's for sale.

Can you explain to me what was propaganda in my post?

 

Pax - I'd be interest to know what you think are not facts. Everton accounts are published on Companies House website so you can see them there, as are loans, their amounts, their rates and length of term.

Accountants can get very creative with accounts that get published and there are plenty of ways to influence the way people not connected with the running of the club (or any company) read the accounts.

The things that are not facts is nearly every single thing the anti Kenwright brigade publish. They don't seem to realise that the less people like them know, the better for our football club. I mean exactly how helpful would be it be allowing people who claim Everton has been asset stripped under Kenwright access to serious financial information about the football club.

You don't give monkeys keys to their cages.

Find your whole approach tiresome, confrontational and pedantic. You are losing whatever credibility you have with each and every post. You want hard facts and make statements such as "Essien 3 times better at everything than felliani" - sorry but expect

 

Practise what you preach.

 

For the record the majority of people on this forum disagree on many topics which is great, the manner in which you want hard facts when faced with clear issues facing the club which can be attributed to the chairman and the board is plain daft.

 

You clearly can't see that the asset stripped state of our club has happened under Bill and Co's reign. Three training grounds sold, failed investment opportunities, two failed stadium moves - one of which was voted against, the other was the biggest missed opportunity in the clubs history.

 

You talk about the need for investment? Well that search has been ongoing 24/7 for the past 11 years - bit of a failure there me thinks. Is the club for sale? certainly wouldn't do any harm to know for how much? considering the only assets we have are the playing staff the board can't be expecting a massive amount or is that the problem?

 

as steveo says, welcome to the forum and all that jazz, but yep pipe down a little - we're all friends here

I couldn't give a monkeys what you think of me or how you ignorantly describe my posting. I also don't give a monkeys if you think i'm credible or not. I don't care one jot, I'm not here for people like you to like me. If you want me to list how i think you post then just ask.

Asset stripped? It's very clear you don't even know what that means.

Is the club for sale. Yes. Does anyone want to buy it? No. I have stated this time and time again, but i feel i am going to have to repeat myself. What part of no one wants to buy Everton do you not understand? It's none of our business how much the club is far sale for and it makes absolutely no difference what so ever. Again, something i have already said, if someone really wanted to buy Everton and the price was too high etc they could easily use the media to force Kenwrights hand. It would be as easy as taking candy from a baby. That has not happened.

I'm not going to pipe down at all, maybe you should heed your own advice.

This is the level of your contribution? Putting a laughing smiley at someone else's post that is full of absolute rubbish? At least he has something to say for himself which is more than can be said for some.

It's clear you have no sense of business knowledge pax or you would understand any debt free business has much more chance of turning a profit simply due to lower expenses.

 

Take a look at how Stoke with a smaller stadium and similar size corps manages to have a larger transfer kitty.

 

Bored now, this is all conversations most of us on here have had many times over

 

Some people do not want to take the time and find the facts out for themselves, just spout that the facts do not exist because they are not advertised.

 

Lots of people on here have spent the time doing the digging, going to AGMs and reading annual accounts to understand the ins and outs.

 

If you want to know facts louis has posted pretty much all of them often with links to the documents in question. Take a look through the pages and find some very useful info hidden away in TT.

 

I'm Gunna read something else for a while, I need a break.

Where did i state a debt free business doesn't have more of chance of turning profit? I do wish people like you would refrain from making things up and putting words in my mouth. Try to be a little bit more grown up about things and refer what i actually said to your points, not what you want me to have said but didn't.

Clearly you are business genius with huge amounts of knowledge and i don't need to tell you that a smaller stadium, modern stadium can generate more match day revenue than an older larger stadium. Stoke are also no operating on their profits, their owner, bet365 money subsidises their available funds.

I completely agree. All the anti Kenwright brigade don't actually want to know the facts, the spout utter drivel that can't be proven. You are yet to prove anything you have suggested. Which is interesting.

Accounts, AGM's and 'digging' will not give anyone access to the real facts. Ironically, that is a fact. I would have thought an experienced business person such as yourself would have known these things.

Louis has posted all the facts? Would you care to list them for me and next to each one provide the evidence that makes them a fact and no simply speculation.

Not surprised you need a break, still trying to prove the US government were behind 911 ?

Steveo I don't know whether google works in ten feet deep of sand.

Does it work ten feet deep in the The Sun, The Star and Evertonian conspiracy theorists

Just had a little read back, you started off defending but you've jumped at me for trying to be a little cautious financially and you are saying we need to spend champs league money on players. For the record, when man u, man c, Liverpool, arsenal, Chelsea, spurs, villa, Blackburn have all got quite a bit of cash, throw us into the pot with the imaginary billionaire, who will be in Europe?

No, i am saying to qualify consistently for the Champions league we need the type of investment that other clubs have. I also stated that unless we un-earth a Rooney type player every 3-4 fours then we will make no money at, not even money to consolidate our current position without a new stadium as there is no other way of generating income.

I don't understand your sentence that starts 'For the record', could you explain your point again.

Jesus fuckin Christ yourself pax!

I'm looking at it from the angle that there is no one out there willing to throw half a billion at us and we could continue to progress in a more stable mannor with someone who just came in with £100m.

If you want to know evertons profits without debt take a look at the clubs accounts they have been published online. I've not seen my shareholder copy yet, they go to my fathers business address and as of June I don't live local anymore.

Also, calm down a little mate. I'm worried you might hurt yourself if you carry on and I'm not sure louis has got the health and safety file up to date.

Who on earth suggested i was even remotely excited? You must be the first the person alive to able to accurately sense tone and manner from the written word

Oh, we just need a person to give us £100 million without any chance of a return. Dear me, why didn't you say so. Now that's easy, there will literally be hundres of people forming a line outside Goodison willing to hand over the measly sum of £100 million.

Everton is saved, StevO has saved us all with his cunning plan and well thought out financial strategy.

By the way, if you don't know what Everton's profits would be after debts have been cleared, why did you state all we need is someone to clear the debts and run the club off the profits?

ooohh get the new boy, couple of complements and he's giving it cloud cuckoo land shouts. You'll be doing Phil Neville step overs next.

 

So you are saying that he never stated that £30m for kings dock was ring fenced? and that he didn't lie???

 

Have you read any minutes from the AGM's?

 

The fortress fund, chris samuelson, NTL, Kirby (goodison will lose it's safety certificate?) - you want facts so go and google.

 

http://www.kenwright.com/index.php?id=936

 

Moyes has been the highest paid manager in the premier league outside the top 4. Tell me, where could he go and earn more money if that is the case?

 

It's not about supporting the chairman, it is appraising his ability to run a football club.

Save the 'new boy crap' for someone who cares and is childish to think it's clever, there's a good lad

This really has become like spoon feeding blended food to a baby. You have no clue, no clue at all about the Kings Dock deal and what did or didn't happen. It wouldn't surprise me if the £30 million would have been available, from an outside investor interested in invested in this type of project. You haven't got a clue why that didn't happen? So why pretend you do?

Yes, i do read all the information from the AGM's. What is your point or what specific part of it do you need help with?

Stop spouting media speculation and anti Kenwright propaganda as fact. I do hope i won't have to tell you this again, but i fear i will, many times.

I think Spurs, Newcastle, Sunderland, Celtic, Rangers, Liverpool, Villa, Man City and some European sides would all have been clubs interested in paying Moyes a large wage and appointing him manager. Anyway, it's a slight stupid argument as far as i am concerned as i don't believe Moyes is a football manager purely for money.

You clearly think the sole reason David Moyes is manager of Everton is his wage? Yes? I personally think that sort of opinion is tragic.

You are not in a position to appraise anything, let alone what sort of job Kenwright is doing at Everton. Absolutely amazes me how ill-informed people can truly believe they have a valid and credible opinion.

you mean he cleans up just like felli does? nothin there you said about essien that isn't true about fellaini in my eyes..mind you if we all used the same eyes how borin would football be eh! plus fellaini make bellamy look like a cunt

As i have already stated, in my opinion, Fellaini isn't fit to lace Essien's boots. Essien does everting at least three times better than MF. Obviously this will enrage the MF is the best player in the world mob, but he really should be better in the air too.

We don't need someone to come in and spend £500m we don't need a new stadium. We need someone to come in and pay off the debts and let the club run on it's own profits and give it maybe five years of solid debt free running, then consider the stadium issue. Goodison is not falling down!

 

In the mean time I'd just be happy if bill stepped down as chairman, stay on the board as a director, and maybe let carter sit as chairman until a possible buyer comes along. It would at least reduce a bit of the strain coming bills way.

1) If we want to compete for a Champions League place consistently, then take a look at what the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Cheslea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Man Utd are spending and then tell me we don't need a new stadium for increased revenue and we don't need a large cash injection for players.

2) What are Everton's profits without debt? Then tell me how we would consistently qualify for Europe on those profits when the teams around us are spending vast sums in comparison.

3) Goodison Park is not falling down (yet), but it doesn't make much money and the whole point of a new stadium is to increase the match day revenue. See The Emirates Stadium for a perfect blueprint of how this works.

4) You want our club to not have a Chairman? You want our Chairman who has an incredibly good relationship with the best manager this club has had in years and our best assest to step down and be replaced by no one. Jesus f'ing Christ

it's more goals than lee carsley

 

 

not sure the sarcasm about maradona was needed but i can see why you did it with the attitude of some on here at times..i really cannot see what you have against him especially the under pressure thing cos even when he was playin shit near the top he still didn't panic in my eyes but that's fair enough i won't belittle your opinion..and not sure what the big deal is with essien myself..think i'm in a minority over him cos only thing i have ever seen him do was score against barcelona..and then he fucked that up by givin the ball back to them in last minute

My sarcasm was purely aimed at those who have described the worlds best player on this thread, something i find absolutely hilarious.

I think i need to reaffirm my point on this. I have never stated Fellaini is a bad player or even not a very good player. What i have stated is that i think there are some major flaws to his game and his consistency. My main point was that if someone was going to offer £25 million for him, then i'd bite their hand off for it. I personally think losing Fellaini but adding four £5 million pound players to the squads, some much needed pace and creativity would be far better for the club than hanging onto a player i don't rate as highly as others. That was it.

With regards to Essien. I live very close to Stamford Bridge and a lot of my neighbours and work colleagues are season ticket holders at Chelsea. When they are playing and Everton are not or when i can't get up to Liverpool, i often get chucked some free tickets to Chelsea. Essien for me is one of the most outstanding players i have ever seen. He passes well, he's is powerful, tackles well, read's the game well, good in the air, never stops running and is consistent from game to game. He does all the important work that goes un-noticed in a modern era where flicks, backheels and goals are all that matter. I've always been a person who admires defenders and grafters more than flair players and strikers. Players like Roy Keane are more enjoyable to watch than that little oik Ronaldo.

See fortress fund, £30m ring fenced for kings dock etc.

 

Why don't you just tell me about it? What don't you give me every single detail about it? Details and facts that haven't come from a speculative media article.

Looking forward to it.

You deal in facts and truth? Yet you support a chairman who is referred to as Billy liar? See fortress fund, £30m ring fenced for kings dock etc.

 

Moyes is hardly going to criticise a man who handed him a contract making him one of the highest paid managers is he?

Who refers to him is Billy Liar? Our manager David Moyes? No. Any of the players? No. Anyone connected with the running of the football club? No. I've never heard that name used once, but maybe that's because this is my first foray onto an Everton forum and those who like to call him that type of name can't get into the pubs around Goodison Park due to licensing laws.

So just the anti Kenwright brigade who form their opinions and 'facts' on media speculation and propaganda. Wow, well that has shown me hasn't it.

You don't think Moyes could get a better contract with a club that isn't broke and that would hand him a transfer kitty? A consistently successful, young premiership manager with experience that has over achieved wouldn't be in demand and wouldn't get a better contract somewhere else? Do you live in cloud cuckoo land?

Oh and can you point out where i said i 'support' Bill Kenwright, that would be great. Just so everyone knows you don't make things up to suit your own argument and all.

clicky

 

Not sure if this has been up before or not (I can't find it) If so apologies.

Haris orchestrated Roman Abramovich into Stamford Bridge, Randy Lerner into Villa Park, handled Thaksin Shinawatra´s purchase of Manchester City and also the Icelandic takeover of West Ham.

So one good takeover in five is his record then. So the next one, should be a good one.

Top post, did you often watch tranmere on a Friday night with a cup of bovril?

No, never. Good attempt at humor but lacking in anything credible.

Now where have i heard that before

Take a look at this article which breaks down most of the issues of Bill - http://www.toffeeweb...le.php?ID=10219

 

Its pretty comprehensive. So unless you are waiting for Bill to say he is a poor chairman and is misleading the fans, well then I hope you never sit on a jury.

 

I think Bill does want Everton to do well. But he has proven to be inept at best as a chairman. Other than hitting the lottery with Moyes to manage the team on a budget he has not helped the team. Does he need to go, as chairman yes. As a partial owner, I don't care. But the board members do not seem to want a share issue to raise funds and just to get a cash infusion while staying in power. That is what needs to change.

I did state no speculative media reports ! So there are no facts, just speculation. I don't deal in speculation, i deal in cold hard facts and if they are not there, i reserve judgement till they are.

Are you suggesting that a jury should convict someone based on flimsy evidence, suggestions and speculation? What a legal system that would be. I'm not sure if you know this, but a jury can't convict someone if they are 99.9% sure someone did it. 99.9% sure someone did it is innocent.

You know one thing that does astound me about the anti Kenwright brigade is the constant suggestion that his decision to hire Moyes was by way of a 'lottery'. It really lowers your credibility when someone can't give praise where it's due.

You all miss one vital aspect of all of this. David Moyes, consistently tells the supporters and the media that Bill Kenwright is a fantastic chairman to work with and for. He couldn't wish for a better chairman and that other clubs should look upon Everton with envy for having such a Chairman.

This is a man who works with Bill 24/7. Who knows the truth about everything that goes on at Everton. Who could quite easily walk out on Everton and find himself a job at other clubs who the anti Kenwright mob deem to be in a far better position that Everton. It seems David Moyes doesn't agree with the anti Kenwright sentiments at all, he doesn't agree with anything you lot have been saying.

The only response to this you can have is to make up fables about the mindset and intentions of David Moyes. Which, as we all know, is not even worth writing down is such rubbish.

So, i'm inclined to side with our Manager and a man i trust when it comes to Kenwright and the Board.