Avinalaff Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 In recent years teams like Portsmouth, Cardiff, Stoke and Birmingham have reached (and won) cup finals and it's nothing to do with investment or loads of cash, it's merely the manager put together a side that was workmanlike, an excellent team ethic and went out with the intent to win, that's one thing Moyes lacks the most, You don't have to be swimming in money or have the best players in order to succeed at least in terms of domestic cup tourneys, just go out with a determination to win. I've seen before how we have played opposition teams in such games and players just seemed to wave a big fuck off white flag and Moyes really couldn't be arsed and a result Toffee forums had a field day with responses, I should know, I was involved myself. When Royle won our last trophy, it wasn't with investment, it was with a group of players who rolled up their sleeves and got on with it, showed some heart and desire, also the new manager at the time instilled some new belief although in the end it was short lived Yes, we need investment, we need a giant kick up the ass truth be known, I know Moyes isn't culpable for every disaster and misfortune we've had, but the man takes his share of the blame, pity really as we had a result today even though it was nothing great but it was some progress made and I'd rather concentrate on that and some good done rather than comment all and any that is wrong with the club at the moment but I feel you just can't steer around it. Stoke haven't won anything since the 70's, and Cardiff since the 20's. Both cup winners Birmingham and Portsmouth are in financial turmoil in the mid table of the Championship. When Royle won our last trophy, he didn't have billionaire investors to contend with, nor did he have to compete against the Sky money every year. Things are very different now. You can't compare. We ourselves were nearly relegated in the following seasons to winning the FA cup. It's time to stop looking at other clubs and concentrate on ourselves. Our fans want Kenwright to spend money he doesn't have, and Moyes to win trophies with talent he doesn't have. We don't ask for much do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 How does that work out, 1984 FA cup winners, League Champions 1985, FA cup winners 1995, 6th place 1996, oh think I see your point but you can't include that for the former, true we nearly went for a burton from 1997 onwards though. I know we have to look at ourselves but I was merely making a comparison. Although Stoke and Cardiff didn't win they still were involved in the FA cup final, and it's a one off occasion where anything can happen. Bottom line is Moyes has had the opportunity to do something in cup competitions the last decade and has failed particularly against lesser opposition, I remember clearly at the time embarrassments and frustrations against Shrewsbury's, Oldham's and Reading's and thinking what might have been had we progressed on the day. One can only wonder. All water under the bridge now but I feel it's a valid point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 How does that work out, 1984 FA cup winners, League Champions 1985, FA cup winners 1995, 6th place 1996, oh think I see your point but you can't include that for the former, true we nearly went for a burton from 1997 onwards though. I know we have to look at ourselves but I was merely making a comparison. Although Stoke and Cardiff didn't win they still were involved in the FA cup final, and it's a one off occasion where anything can happen. Bottom line is Moyes has had the opportunity to do something in cup competitions the last decade and has failed particularly against lesser opposition, I remember clearly at the time embarrassments and frustrations against Shrewsbury's, Oldham's and Reading's and thinking what might have been had we progressed on the day. One can only wonder. All water under the bridge now but I feel it's a valid point. Dalziel wake up. You quoted Joe Royals cup win, not Kendalls. When Royle won our last trophy, it wasn't with investment, it was with a group of players who rolled up their sleeves and got on with it, showed some heart and desire, also the new manager at the time instilled some new belief although in the end it was short lived How can you also quote other teams getting to a final, as a way of undermining Moyes getting to a final? As for 'lesser' opposition, we knocked out Liverpool, Villa, Boro, United, etc and met Chelsea in the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 My bad, but when I saw nearly relegated after winning the FA cup I automatically assumed both of recent times and not just Royle in 95, of course I remember 96 apart, the subsequent years were a real struggle and almost relegated the club even I'm fully aware of the route we took three years ago to get to the FA cup final, I was a part of it too along the way as we all were and remember significant moments, players showed at times they could be motivated and get a result. I think the general consensus here is that on these occasions anything can happen so long as there's a certain drive or desire, maybe I don't feel as of this current time we quite match that in order to progress in this years tournament. It'll be interesting to see what occurs in the coming months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 My bad, but when I saw nearly relegated after winning the FA cup I automatically assumed both of recent times and not just Royle in 95, of course I remember 96 apart, the subsequent years were a real struggle and almost relegated the club even I'm fully aware of the route we took three years ago to get to the FA cup final, I was a part of it too along the way as we all were and remember significant moments, players showed at times they could be motivated and get a result. I think the general consensus here is that on these occasions anything can happen so long as there's a certain drive or desire, maybe I don't feel as of this current time we quite match that in order to progress in this years tournament. It'll be interesting to see what occurs in the coming months It's not life and death mate. Just take it as it comes and try to enjoy the journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaminfox Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 How does that work out, 1984 FA cup winners, League Champions 1985, FA cup winners 1995, 6th place 1996, oh think I see your point but you can't include that for the former, true we nearly went for a burton from 1997 onwards though. I know we have to look at ourselves but I was merely making a comparison. Although Stoke and Cardiff didn't win they still were involved in the FA cup final, and it's a one off occasion where anything can happen. Bottom line is Moyes has had the opportunity to do something in cup competitions the last decade and has failed particularly against lesser opposition, I remember clearly at the time embarrassments and frustrations against Shrewsbury's, Oldham's and Reading's and thinking what might have been had we progressed on the day. One can only wonder. All water under the bridge now but I feel it's a valid point. We were involved in a FA cup final too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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