Arshavin

[Blue4Ever]

if we did get him we could just keep the 451 but have

 

--------------------------Yakubu------------------------------

 

Pienaar-----Cahill-----Fernandes-----Arshavin------Arteta

 

-----Baines-------Lescott--------Yobo---------Jagielka------

 

---------------------------Howard------------------------------

 

Class team imo

[Ynox]

JUST LOVE TO GET THIS FELLA £8M SEEMS A SNIP. dont try and tell me he wouldnt do Cahills job better

 

Cahill in 15 games has 8 goals, and some of those games he played in the midfield in the 442 position, and his best position is just behind Yak. How can you say Arshavin would do better job then Cahill?? Also, Arshavin has been playing all his life in the Russian league, against russian defenders, dont you think he would need time to adjust?

[Blue4Ever]

Cahill in 15 games has 8 goals, and some of those games he played in the midfield in the 442 position, and his best position is just behind Yak. How can you say Arshavin would do better job then Cahill?? Also, Arshavin has been playing all his life in the Russian league, against russian defenders, dont you think he would need time to adjust?

He looks more of a better all round midfielder than cahill but I couldnt see him scoring as many unless he was upfront.

[Bill]

He looks more of a better all round midfielder than cahill but I couldnt see him scoring as many unless he was upfront.

 

He would if he was playing the Cahill role behind the striker, in the team you picked with both of them playing, Osman would play ahead of Cahill because of his better midfield workrate. IMO. Cahill does'nt do enough when our backs are to the wall, terrible tackler and gets too many yellow cards for it.

[yorkshire_blue]

without a defensively minded midfielder i think we'd struggle,

all of those players offer more than cars (and i know he's old and will need replacing in the summer and so on) does going forward but a large part of our sucess this season has been not conceeding too often, our defence has been good, but occaisionally prone to lapses (including yobo and lescott) and a big man in the middle relieving pressure when it comes has been important.

[Ynox]

rotation anyone..........JUST A THAUGHT.

 

So spend £8 mil for a rotation player?

I'd rather then spend the money and buy a good right back and a defensive mid.

[carlmc25]

So spend £8 mil for a rotation player?

I'd rather then spend the money and buy a good right back and a defensive mid.

me too, I agree with Yorkshire as well. I'd rather bank the money from McFadden and pay whatever it takes to get Appiah, someone who genuinely would give us that driving force in the middle of the park - he and Fernandes could be awesome together. Cahill's goal record is phenomenal and he has more to his game than that, Arshavin is totally unproven in this league and most people on here have probably hardly seen him play. Cahill has proven time and time again how important he is to Everton and he has basically (with help) turned our season around, since he's come back into the team we've been absolutely flying and winning games left, right and centre. I can't believe the mentality of some fans, Cahill is brilliant for us, there's a lot more players in our team who need replacing before he does.

[Ynox]

me too, I agree with Yorkshire as well. I'd rather bank the money from McFadden and pay whatever it takes to get Appiah, someone who genuinely would give us that driving force in the middle of the park - he and Fernandes could be awesome together. Cahill's goal record is phenomenal and he has more to his game than that, Arshavin is totally unproven in this league and most people on here have probably hardly seen him play. Cahill has proven time and time again how important he is to Everton and he has basically (with help) turned our season around, since he's come back into the team we've been absolutely flying and winning games left, right and centre. I can't believe the mentality of some fans, Cahill is brilliant for us, there's a lot more players in our team who need replacing before he does.

 

Well said!!

[c1982]

me too, I agree with Yorkshire as well. I'd rather bank the money from McFadden and pay whatever it takes to get Appiah, someone who genuinely would give us that driving force in the middle of the park - he and Fernandes could be awesome together. Cahill's goal record is phenomenal and he has more to his game than that, Arshavin is totally unproven in this league and most people on here have probably hardly seen him play. Cahill has proven time and time again how important he is to Everton and he has basically (with help) turned our season around, since he's come back into the team we've been absolutely flying and winning games left, right and centre. I can't believe the mentality of some fans, Cahill is brilliant for us, there's a lot more players in our team who need replacing before he does.

 

Here, here mate! A lot of this has probably come from people buying arshavin on footie man and having him on fifa - so he's the best player in the world now - how the fuck people can say he'll do a better job than cahill - ridiculous - on what basis can you say that?! - If he's that good why don't we sell cahill to fund this deal?!

 

I agree, cahill has played a big part in turning our season round when it was in danger of going a bit off-road.

 

I'd like this arshavin from what i've heard but i can't say enough about this chap to rave about him like others have - is there anyone on this forum who follows russian football week in and out and has seen him perform on a regular basis? - your opinion on the chap i respect - other people hyping him up on what you've read or 1 or 2 games, you can't really drop timmy for that!!!

[carlmc25]

Here, here mate! A lot of this has probably come from people buying arshavin on footie man and having him on fifa - so he's the best player in the world now - how the fuck people can say he'll do a better job than cahill - ridiculous - on what basis can you say that?! - If he's that good why don't we sell cahill to fund this deal?!

 

I agree, cahill has played a big part in turning our season round when it was in danger of going a bit off-road.

 

I'd like this arshavin from what i've heard but i can't say enough about this chap to rave about him like others have - is there anyone on this forum who follows russian football week in and out and has seen him perform on a regular basis? - your opinion on the chap i respect - other people hyping him up on what you've read or 1 or 2 games, you can't really drop timmy for that!!!

100% agree with every word of that post.

 

I'd rather sell AJ to fund Arshavin personally, as he's someone who hasn't contributed much to our season and isn't worth the money we paid for him. Cahill is probably our most feared player and the player our team is built around, yet some people say let's replace him. Some fans are so fickle, it's like with Arteta as soon as his form drops a little some say we should sign Bentley to replace him, as someone rightly pointed out - what happens when Bentley's form dips? it's ridiculous, our players are giving their all for this club and we are having one of the best seasons we've had in about 20 years, yet gratitude seems to be thin on the ground...

 

Carsley on the other hand, as brilliant as he has been, is getting on a bit and I think it has to be the priority to get a younger, more athletic and physical replacement. Also, someone with more ability on the ball who can enable us to play 442 as well. Appiah looks to fit the bill from what I've seen of him.

 

I don't mind Arshavin if he can play left wing/forward as then we have options and we can get AJ out, but to talk of dropping Cahill is scandalous imo - in a 451 anyway.

[Bill]

I think people are mis-understanding me I like Cahill and rate him a good player, but if a better one comes along i would'nt think twice about replacing him, or any of the team, otherwise we are never going to advance into the top 4 My argument is

 

Its not just Cahill that turned the season around, there where many factors, Pienaar got better and better, Osman came in from the wing and played Mid and played well, they changed to 4-5-1 to accomodate Cahill, Yakubu got fitter and played better, the defence started keeping clean sheets, and they fooked Neville off out of the midfield to play him fullback his best position.

 

So when anybody comes on here cummin in their pants drooling over Cahill, Just remember its Osman, Pienaar, Arteta along with the rest of them who have been making it easy for him, so dont go praising him for being some sort of superman who turned us around single handed.

 

Over to you.

[carlmc25]

I think people are mis-understanding me I like Cahill and rate him a good player, but if a better one comes along i would'nt think twice about replacing him, or any of the team, otherwise we are never going to advance into the top 4 My argument is

 

Its not just Cahill that turned the season around, there where many factors, Pienaar got better and better, Osman came in from the wing and played Mid and played well, they changed to 4-5-1 to accomodate Cahill, Yakubu got fitter and played better, the defence started keeping clean sheets, and they fooked Neville off out of the midfield to play him fullback his best position.

 

So when anybody comes on here cummin in their pants drooling over Cahill, Just remember its Osman, Pienaar, Arteta along with the rest of them who have been making it easy for him, so dont go praising him for being some sort of superman.

 

Over to you.

without Cahill we can't realistically play 451 with anything like the same success. We don't play 451 to accommodate Cahill, we play it when Cahill is fit because Cahill makes it work. Cahill basically accommodates our need to play 451, not the other way around. The reason Pienaar was getting better and better, the reason the defence started keeping clean sheets is because we went to 451 because Cahill makes it work. Without Cahill, we would still be playing 442 and ambling along in mid-table obscurity. It's true that other players play better in 451 (Carsley in particular) but it's no secret Cahill is the key to the fundamental success of 451. He also works very hard and wins a lot of flick ons which helps give us possession higher up the pitch.

[Blue4Ever]

Cahill is important to us because of his goals, everyone knows that, but as an all round midfielder he does need to improve on his tackling and passing.

[LexKing]

i cant believe anyone would want to replace timmy, and questioning his work rate? i am baffled!

 

X2 shocked :suicide_anim: :axehead:

[StevO]

me too, I agree with Yorkshire as well. I'd rather bank the money from McFadden and pay whatever it takes to get Appiah, someone who genuinely would give us that driving force in the middle of the park - he and Fernandes could be awesome together. Cahill's goal record is phenomenal and he has more to his game than that, Arshavin is totally unproven in this league and most people on here have probably hardly seen him play. Cahill has proven time and time again how important he is to Everton and he has basically (with help) turned our season around, since he's come back into the team we've been absolutely flying and winning games left, right and centre. I can't believe the mentality of some fans, Cahill is brilliant for us, there's a lot more players in our team who need replacing before he does.

 

hate to say this carl, but i agree with every word!

 

more important pisitions to improve on before cahill needs replacing, but to be honest i cant see moyes wanting to replace him anyway

 

Cahill is important to us because of his goals, everyone knows that, but as an all round midfielder he does need to improve on his tackling and passing.

i wouldnt play him as a midfielder anyway.

i think yak is our most dangerous forward, closely followed by cahill. i dont think hes a midfielder, hes a forward who can play in midfield if we need him too.

[Everton_Worshiper]

I think people are mis-understanding me I like Cahill and rate him a good player, but if a better one comes along i would'nt think twice about replacing him, or any of the team, otherwise we are never going to advance into the top 4 My argument is

 

Its not just Cahill that turned the season around, there where many factors, Pienaar got better and better, Osman came in from the wing and played Mid and played well, they changed to 4-5-1 to accomodate Cahill, Yakubu got fitter and played better, the defence started keeping clean sheets, and they fooked Neville off out of the midfield to play him fullback his best position.

 

So when anybody comes on here cummin in their pants drooling over Cahill, Just remember its Osman, Pienaar, Arteta along with the rest of them who have been making it easy for him, so dont go praising him for being some sort of superman who turned us around single handed.

 

Over to you.

 

^^ agree with every word. Cahill is no Gerrard, we could live and win without him. So all the Cahill spooners, if we could get Ronaldinho then you wouldn't want him as it would mean our dear Timmy would be sat on the bench..?

 

(please note I am not comparing unknown arshavin to ronaldinho)

[Ynox]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3052077,00.html

 

Apparently Arsenal and Totn. are also interested in him, no mention of Everton there.

[Bill]

^^ agree with every word. Cahill is no Gerrard, we could live and win without him. So all the Cahill spooners, if we could get Ronaldinho then you wouldn't want him as it would mean our dear Timmy would be sat on the bench..?

 

I'm pleased you see it the same way as me, we have been improving recently and we need to keep it going.

Whats the point of selling lets say Mcfadden and replacing him with one of a similar talent or value, who will just become another Squad player. ? We should be targetting the Likes of Appiah and Arshavin so that it improves the Team, and Carsley and Cahill then become the Squad players.

If we are just happy to keep the same eleven and buy Squad players we will never get any further up the League, we are on a roll at the mo, Carling Cup Semi, Eufa group stages and battling for 4th or 5th in the Premier League, People are taking notice of us, they know who we are, and we have to make the best of it while we can. I would replace any member of our present team no matter how valuable, if we could buy a better replacement, it has to be done if we want to keep improving.

I know some peeps on this forum think Cahill cannot be replaced, but believe me he can and will be when a better player comes along.

 

I know lots of peeps believe differently and have contrasting Views, but this is my View, take it or leave it. <_<

[carlmc25]

I'm pleased you see it the same way as me, we have been improving recently and we need to keep it going.

Whats the point of selling lets say Mcfadden and replacing him with one of a similar talent or value, who will just become another Squad player. ? We should be targetting the Likes of Appiah and Arshavin so that it improves the Team, and Carsley and Cahill then become the Squad players.

If we are just happy to keep the same eleven and buy Squad players we will never get any further up the League, we are on a roll at the mo, Carling Cup Semi, Eufa group stages and battling for 4th or 5th in the Premier League, People are taking notice of us, they know who we are, and we have to make the best of it while we can. I would replace any member of our present team no matter how valuable, if we could buy a better replacement, it has to be done if we want to keep improving.

I know some peeps on this forum think Cahill cannot be replaced, but believe me he can and will be when a better player comes along.

 

I know lots of peeps believe differently and have contrasting Views, but this is my View, take it or leave it. <_<.

I don't think anyone would say that Cahill cannot be replaced, but to say Arhsavin would be better than him when he is totally unproven in this league is a massive disservice to Cahill imo. I don't think you'd hear any complaints if Everton did a swap deal Cahill for Ronaldo, but the point is Cahill is probably our most important player and is consistently performing week in week out and fits into our team spirit. We don't need to look to replace him, what we do need is another class left winger, (as Pienaar is still only on loan and we still only have 2 excellent wingers with no cover), another class forward to replace the disappointing AJ and another class DM most of all to give us the option to play 442 and to replace the ageing Carsley. Apart from someone like Ronaldo, I can't see many players being brought in who could do a better job than Cahill in that 451 role, certainly not in our price range. Let's just get Appiah and sign up Fernandes and Pienaar, that would turn us into a serious force.

 

It's easy to say I don't see the point spending the McFadden money on a squad player, but buying a player to replace Cahill in the team basically means we then have Cahill as a squad player, and in today's market he is worth probably 3 times what McFadden is.

Edited January 16, 2008 by carlmc25

[Bill]

""We should be targetting the Likes of Appiah and Arshavin so that it improves the Team,""

 

 

Just examples dear boy, just examples.

[StevO]

i get what you mean bill, but i think a lefty and a power house are more important to replace first.

and our first choice cm and rb are both into their 30s now

[Calico]

The point about AJ.... It just leaves me astounded. Last season he and Cahill together were a force to be reckoned with before the both of them got injured. Now THAT is a forward you want in your squad, especially if/when Moyes gets someone like Appiah and we can play a 4-4-2. I mean, does anyone honestly think that Cahill can give us what AJ does as a centre forward and does anyone honestly think we should be shoving Vaughan up there as a starter when we already have AJ?

 

And I think the point Licker is making about Cahill is near enough the exact same one I made... it's not about getting rid of him because some flavour of the month comes along (despite the fact that, as someone else mentioned, Arsenal and Tottenham are his preferences so never mind <_<) but more of a long term thing. Yes, we have other positions to improve first when you consider how much Cahill has done for us but at the same time we should always be glad to improve our team. I mean, against Chelsea last week when he wasn't playing against a holding midfielder I just felt that Timmy lacked that killer pass or bit of skill which would have really given us a few chances and to my mind, if you play 4-5-1 then the man in behind the forward has to have that as much, if not more, as he needs Cahill's current strengths, i.e. someone like Riquelme (as much as that is the impossible ream IMO ). Now, don't get me wrong on this - I don't think that Cahil CAN'T play the killer pass or have that bit of skill in that role, but I do think that in our team's 4-5-1 he DOESN'T do that, and whoever is to blame is irrelevant.

 

Also, I think saying that Pienaar has shone because of the 4-5-1 is also a disservice him. I can't really see any formations where he wouldn't shine.

[Blue4Ever]

hate to say this carl, but i agree with every word!

 

more important pisitions to improve on before cahill needs replacing, but to be honest i cant see moyes wanting to replace him anyway

i wouldnt play him as a midfielder anyway.

i think yak is our most dangerous forward, closely followed by cahill. i dont think hes a midfielder, hes a forward who can play in midfield if we need him too.

His position is behind the striker, he's not a player id play up front anyway even though his finishing is class.

[Bill]

Good post Calico, but you know you've let yourself in for a bombardment now dont you, Carlmc25 is never wrong and until you agree with him, your going to get the full treatment. :D

[Calico]

Oh yeah, I put my view across and attempted to back it up. I think I broke a law, Licker.

[carlmc25]

Oh yeah, I put my view across and attempted to back it up. I think I broke a law, Licker.

actually, that's all I ever ask and I think your post was excellent. The points you made about Cahill were very accurate and I agree with all of them, it's just - as you said - I don't want to buy some flavour of the month to replace Cahill when in reality he is already doing a great job. If we could get someone who is virtually guaranteed to do a better job than Cahill then I don't think anyone would have a problem with that, my point was that we shouldn't be actively looking to replace Cahill as he is one of our best players and finances are limited, so that means you replace the players that need replacing the most in the areas that will make the most difference. Cahill does such a good job for us that I personally don't think it would make a vast difference (positive impact I'm talking here) no matter who was brought in. The fact that Arshavin is being linked with Arsenal and Spurs means nothing at the moment, it's pure speculation.

 

As for Pienaar, I don't mean any disservice to the guy and it was no reflection of his talent, the problem is - in a 442 he doesn't get much of the ball because Carlsey and Cahill get overrun and they don't have the passing range (neither do the defence) to get the ball to Arteta and Pienaar in good positions. Thus Pienaar (and most likely Arteta) will be much less effective.

 

Lastly AJ, he's just not very good. He started off last season like a house on fire and he can still do a job - but you asked would I rather play Vaughan ahead of him and my answer is yes, he's similar to AJ but quicker, more aggressive, better in the air and a better finisher, so yes I'd rather play Vaughan. AJ is 9m sitting on the bench, his partnership with Yakubu has showed virtually no promise whatsoever and Yakubu has shown himself to be in a different league in terms of ability and genuine talent from AJ already. I hate having a dig at Everton players and I've stuck up for most of our players (Carsley, Neville, Lescott, Arteta etc etc) on numerous occasions, but AJ hasn't cut it so far.

[Everton_Worshiper]

Lastly AJ, he's just not very good. He started off last season like a house on fire and he can still do a job - but you asked would I rather play Vaughan ahead of him and my answer is yes, he's similar to AJ but quicker, more aggressive, better in the air and a better finisher, so yes I'd rather play Vaughan. AJ is 9m sitting on the bench, his partnership with Yakubu has showed virtually no promise whatsoever and Yakubu has shown himself to be in a different league in terms of ability and genuine talent from AJ already. I hate having a dig at Everton players and I've stuck up for most of our players (Carsley, Neville, Lescott, Arteta etc etc) on numerous occasions, but AJ hasn't cut it so far.

 

I second that.

[Blue4Ever]

^ I third it, if we got a 8 million + offer for Johnson id let him go but I wouldnt except that for Vaughan, no chance.

 

Carl with Fernandes and Osman coming back, were never going to partner Cahill and Carsley in a 4 4 2 in the middle for them to get overrun anyway I still think 4 5 1 is our best option at the moment and from what you say about it i bet ud rather us play it aswell.

[Bill]

Carl......"I don't think anyone would say that Cahill cannot be replaced, but to say Arhsavin would be better than him when he is totally unproven in this league is a massive disservice to Cahill imo".

 

 

Do the Names CAHILL, ARTETA, PIENAAR, LESCOTT, and YOBO mean anything to you. ???

 

All "totally unproven in this league" was the way you put it, when we signed them.

Some times you have to take a chance with transfers or you would'nt have any players at all. I still maintain i would replace any player in the team if we could find a better one, otherwise we stand still, and when you stand still you inevitably end up sliding backwards.

[carlmc25]

Carl......"I don't think anyone would say that Cahill cannot be replaced, but to say Arhsavin would be better than him when he is totally unproven in this league is a massive disservice to Cahill imo".

Do the Names CAHILL, ARTETA, PIENAAR, LESCOTT, and YOBO mean anything to you. ???

 

All "totally unproven in this league" was the way you put it, when we signed them.

Some times you have to take a chance with transfers or you would'nt have any players at all. I still maintain i would replace any player in the team if we could find a better one, otherwise we stand still, and when you stand still you inevitably end up sliding backwards.

yeah obviously, but you don't take a chance on a 9m player to replace one of the best players in our team who is consistently performing when there's other areas that need strengthening. I'd rather spend the money on securing Pienaar and Fernandes.

 

Blue4ever - yes I'd far rather we play a 451 as we still don't know what Fernandes can do consistently in a 442 and Carsley isn't good enough for 442. If we could get someone like Appiah then 442 could become a real possibility.