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Open Letter To All Toffeetalkers


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#1 Zed

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Posted 06 Aug 2007 - 09:24

On the Eve of the biggest decision in most Evertonians lives one of Toffetalks Senior Members sent this thought provoking email to its members

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As I write this on the eve of the most momentous week of our Everton lives I feel great sadness. This week the voting ballot papers will fall through our letter box, we will open them expecting to tick a box in a few seconds. Please, please stop and think what your X mark will mean to the future of Everton and future Evertonians. Make a decision that you can really put your head on the pillow and think Ive done the right thing not a selfish for here and now vote but for our children and their children.

This Kirkby proposal is short term gain with long term pain.

Im sad about the events of the last few weeks when really I should be happy about the best team in years and European football beckoning us. Ill explain. All I have seen and heard pre-season is Evertonians wrestle with what the future holds which for many will be life changing.

I have a great friend called Barry, a rough diamond who lives and breaths Everton, in fact his four children are named after former players (even his daughter Toni is named after Tony Cottee),he has not missed a game anywhere for over 20 years and has ran out of skin space for Tattoos Everton related. He wells up with emotion like the last time we won the cup and says to me I love this club but if they take us to Kirkby for their own self interest Im not going anymore. It will break my heart but I feel betrayed and my children will be abandoned by the club Barry lives in Southdene, Kirkby. He has no vote, why, because he spends all his free money travelling the length and breadth of the country organising coaches to follow the Blues. An extreme and isolated case? No a frightening common theme running throughout the Everton hard core, you know the ones who dont question the board or the managers tactics too much and pour scorn on anyone booing the team but will support the team on a cold winters night at a far flung venue in the League Cup. Ive heard of season tickets will be sent back and future games picked if we get sent to Kirkby.

The Everton extended family is in turmoil, fearful of what is to become of us. I ask a simple question? Who is this stadium really for? Is it for a desperate board devoid of money and real ambition? Selling us off to Kirkby for selfish reasons to maximise their share value. Will the present CEO and custodians be with the fans left by the Kirkby move in this nice stadium on a retail park in five years time. Make no mistake this crime of the century will be called in and the initial free stadium, now its costing us 50 million plus, will increase in cost at least another 30million. Steel prices are going through the roof. The land were our new home is to be placed was landfill and the foundation costs could soar.

Everything we have been told by our sales pitch owners changes almost daily. We were acquiring 9,000 car spaces on the retail park now its 1000.So if you live a few miles away you will have to drive to a car park ( with a fee) then get on a coach ( with a fee) watch the game and on masse after the final whistle wait in hour long queues to get on a coach to pick up your car wait in another queue to get out of the car park to your home destination. The fabled trams and new train station will not cope according to experts on transport in the Mersey region.

The world class stadium initially promised is now a nice stadium ask yourself is this stadium presented to us worthy of the fourth most successful team in English football, were not a Bolton or Coventry were Everton. The price we are quoted to build this stadium says a lot of its finished style and quality.

Bringing the existing playing staff to endorse our move is a bit below the belt and I thought we did things the Everton way. Hardly anyone in the present first team will be with us in five years time, Beatties gone already. And just who scripted their quotes and how could they say anything else if they did say it, they are employees. Another nail in many fans coffin of Everton to do this.

Fear factors used by the public relations machine of Goodison will fall down soon and we will end up playing Marine. The reds are building a new stadium across the road do we want to see this? No lets cower away on the edge of the city eh? Would our newest fan, Rocky, do this? Run away from a fight to keep the hearts, minds and souls of future generations in this City. Make no mistake we will not grow in Kirkby but erode.

We have the biggest walk up in the league and the best dispersal rate of fans, why are we making it harder for our fans?

Ten million pounds extra for team building in Kirkby! Based on what business plan shown to the fans. By the way 10 million in five years time might get us an average left back if were lucky.

A new stadium will not make us compete to where we aspire too only big backers with money will accomplish this.
And there lies our problem, money.

Our board has never put one penny of extra investment in our club just paid the bank for Mr Johnsons shares. In the fast pace and money driven premiership we have a mansion but try to live there on a working mans wage. Only Moyes magic wand has put us in European football not our custodians. We have the smallest squad in the history of the Premiership just now. Ask yourself why? We budget for 17th place we finished an admirable sixth adding to our spending power with 500,000 per place. 35 million given by the great God Sky yet tonight we are in a plus monies in with two players less than a week away to kick off. Relegated Sheffield United have spent more than us with eight strikers now to choose from.

An indication that we have no real money still after Moyes exploits. God help us next season if we finish mid table our best players will be sold as weve sold everything else even the new academy. We have only Goodison left which is costed at 7 million in the Everton stadium accounts but 14 million on the company accounts to make our holdings look better. Lets be honest the fee quoted for Goodison to be sold will secure us 15 million is over optimistic at best. Where will we get this fee Narnia? The naming rights 35 million, Arsenal only get three million a year from the Emirates over ten years the rest is for shirt sponsorship. Thats a London team consistently in the Champions League.

All our PR spin is like a wish list for Father Christmas, where is the detail to back up their claims, where is the stadium detail. This project is over 18 months in the making and were shown what? A night light up stadium anyone could have 'photoshopped' from a stadium in Europe.
Why do we feel were being rushed into something we will regret?

Were told we are special in that we will have a vote on our future. If the deal and stadium was as great as we were initially told why are our custodians not just making the decision for us? When you buy Everton you should show leadership and vision. Did we vote for the magical Kings Dock? No the vote is a double indemnity passing the buck so to speak when it goes horribly wrong if we move. What major company would accept a 51% mandate to move, disenfranchising thousands of fans. Maybe a desperate company?

We were told there is no plan B, Goodison cannot be re-developed and the council has not helped us with no land available. Well we all know now this is not the case. A group of caring Evertonians picked up those terse statements and the gauntlet, spent hundreds of hours and their own money to get real alternatives. I take my hat off to KEIOC, I went to the exhibition last Friday not in a pub or school hall but in the great building of St Georges hall. There I found detailed plans stage by stage to dispel the myth of Goodison cannot be done. Did the owners of Tottenham Hotspur, Aston Villa, Glasgow Celtic, Glasgow Rangers, Rangers, Chelsea, Newcastle United and Manchester United say this as well ? Or did their boards put their hands in their pockets for the future of the club in the best location. Where they are heralded from and made their name.

They acquired planning permission and funding had a real will and ambition, doing what was best for the fans, not just themselves.
It stuck me at St Georges where would we want to parade our next trophy, here in the heart of our city or from Knowsleys Civic hall.

The four thousand fans who came to plan B and C came also in hope that a real alternative could be found, a holy grail to many of the pilgrims on Friday, I believe many will vote yes to Kirkby because of the clubs spin of impending disaster and doom, a cruel way to treat our loyal supporters of the Peoples club a banner that should be taken down in Kirkby if we go.

Im thankful also to KEIOC for making sure that the Electoral society will count the votes of our destiny. The last vote we undertook was under suspicion.
I hope the local media give this week a word for word balanced view; they have a responsibility to its Blue readers not to be influenced by our club. If the local media explore Bestway proposals then its a no brainier where our future lies. In Everton looking over the Mersey and Ruperts tower. A iconic setting at the gateway of the City centre with a statement to all visitors who we are. WE ARE EVERTON!

A club rich in history and tradition a founder member and a much loved institution of the City. Its roots based on the working man not based in Kirkby for corporate reasons. Incidentally what corporate business would spend money seven miles from a vibrant growing City. Would you buy a pub in the City or one in Kirkby These naming rights, where would you get more money Kirkby or a location seen by tourists and business people coming in from the planes and boats on the Mersey. You would hear the roar of a goal in the city centre just like when Dixie scored that goal that gave him immortality.

I have said before if we leave to go to Kirkby in five years time everyone visiting our growing city will be met at Speke, Lime Street, Skellhorne Street and Lime Street with bill boards proclaiming Welcome to Liverpool home of Liverpool FC and the Beatles job done, erosion of our brand name in the city. Why should the LCC council and tourism board endorse another councils business?

Ive met high powered representatives of Bestway and they mean business but need above all co-operation from Bill, its deliverable.

Our council will back this scheme and all political parties transcend differences. It will re-generate a massive area coupled with project Jennifer on Great Homer street. We had one fantastic opportunity in the Kings Dock a quantum leap for our club that every red was envious of, ( now they are laughing at us with the Tesco dome) but to be fair many reds tell me they truly dont want us to leave the City. It is not Liverpool FC being the cuckoo in the nest but our own board. Dont do it Bill, I want you to use your vote to help this man to do the right thing. By voting No we have to explore the other options given to the club.

I asked Bill Kenwright how he wanted to be remembered, this deal and Goodison will ensure he will be remembered as a visionary custodian not pillared for taking us out of the City. I dont wish harm on Bill but he must do whats right and take notice of what is on offer now not be blinkered and swayed by non Evertonians. Lets not play cat and mouse with Bestway. Send a clear signal of intent to do whats best for Everton long term and most of all think of our children please.
Say No to Kirkby and lets be together, a powerful force.

Lets have that feel good factor not one of division and fear.

Please take time on your vote delve more into options and say NO!

P.S. This week I expect a last minute seduction to the wavering fans please dont be sucked in, think long term and think of who we really are. Maybe the Tesco deal was the best thing that happened because now there is a momentum to address our stadium issue lets continue this and explore the City plans. Only a vote No to Kirkby will enable us to go the right way for our childrens future. Any doubts vote NO and put your head on the pillow knowing you have done whats right!

A superb rendition for the undecided out there.......

Vote NO.
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#2 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 06 Aug 2007 - 11:50

Here, here!

Vote NO and the debate opens, vote YES and theres no turning back even if the details of the bestway deal turn out to be far better than Kirkby & Tesco!!

Plus if achievable to Goodison re-development looks like a tidy option too!

I'm voting no but if Kirkby turns out to be the best option when we have looked at all the others I will embrace it, lets move with caution and make sure we are getting "NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM".
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#3 Adams

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Posted 06 Aug 2007 - 12:02

I dont like the sound of moving to kirkby, but im all for the bestbuy site.
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#4 Maghull70

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Posted 06 Aug 2007 - 12:54

I'm not against Kirkby but I think the best thing to do is VOTE NO, then after we look at the Bestway deal weigh it up against Kirkby.
If the Bestway deal is just all talk and a No Go-er then lets go to Kirkby, until we know of this, VOTE NO.
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#5 Bluetrip

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 00:14

One thing's for sure we can't go on without investing capital into new players and Kenwright knows it. If this stadium proposal goes through it will pretty much buy him three more stagnant years of no investment during the build.
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#6 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 08:33

I'm not against Kirkby but I think the best thing to do is VOTE NO, then after we look at the Bestway deal weigh it up against Kirkby.
If the Bestway deal is just all talk and a No Go-er then lets go to Kirkby, until we know of this, VOTE NO.

If you vote no to Kirkby then the deal is dead in the water. No means NO and there will be no going back on it.
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#7 Bill

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:25

If you vote no it just ends the exclusivity deal, so everyone else can then throw their keys in the hat, A yes vote is only to continue discussions with Tesco alone. Once everyone is in you can look at them all in depth, and might decide tesco is still the best option. Nothing will be lost with a no vote.
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#8 StevO

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:29

bully said last nite on radio merseyside that the chairman see's this as we move to kirkby or we dont do anything else about the stadium.

and they have said previously that the vote will be yes we move to kirkby, or if the vote is no them kirkby deal is dropped
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#9 Bill

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:35

They are so desperate to get this through they are putting a gun to your heads, does'nt that ring any alarm bells with most people, cos if it Does,nt it fookin well should.
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#10 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 07 Aug 2007 - 11:46

They are trying every underhand tactic plus this stupid figure of 51% majority will win the vote!

I tell you now KW is on a massive bonus over the new stad and the major share holders wont be arround to see it cos as soon as the share prices go up they'll be off.
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#11 Texas Toffee

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 08:39

They are trying every underhand tactic plus this stupid figure of 51% majority will win the vote!

I tell you now KW is on a massive bonus over the new stad and the major share holders wont be arround to see it cos as soon as the share prices go up they'll be off.



GoldfishMemory....always the Optimist, right??

Edited by Texas Toffee, 10 Aug 2007 - 08:39.

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#12 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 08:55

GoldfishMemory....always the Optimist, right??


LOST confidence in the board mate sorry!
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#13 StevO

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 09:39

LOST confidence in the board mate sorry!


dont apologise Liam, im very optimistic about the coming season, but ive no confidence in the board at all.
i believe trained monkeys could do a similar job
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#14 Blue4Ever

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 10:23

If you vote no to Kirkby then the deal is dead in the water. No means NO and there will be no going back on it.

Thats fucking stupid im defo voting No now I aint getting held to ransom.
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#15 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 10:28

Thats fucking stupid im defo voting No now I aint getting held to ransom.


And also complete bollocks, does anyone actually believe that if we vote no to Kirkby Everton will abandon any attempt to move from Goodison Park?

Scare tactics thats all that statement is!
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#16 CraccerC

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 11:50

If you vote no it just ends the exclusivity deal, so everyone else can then throw their keys in the hat, A yes vote is only to continue discussions with Tesco alone. Once everyone is in you can look at them all in depth, and might decide tesco is still the best option. Nothing will be lost with a no vote.


time, money, a stadium, attraction of players, attraction of investment...wouldn't say nothing was lost, a lot is lost
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#17 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 12:17

time, money, a stadium, attraction of players, attraction of investment...wouldn't say nothing was lost, a lot is lost


Dont you think it's strange that the club has let us get so far down the line under this exclusivity agreement? It's like they are trying to guilt us into voting to move because they've done so muh work on the Kirkby site.
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#18 Blue 250

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 15:13

When the lucky 40,000 get home from Goodison park tomorrow(after out playing
Wigan and hopefully winning)check the other football scores as they come in.
Amongst the losers will be some teams who have moved to new stadiums,some will
even lose at those said stadiums.
One things for sure WE WONT LOSE A GAME AT Goodison PARK THIS SEASON
BECAUSE IT NEEDS THE TOILETS DOING UP A BIT, OR SOME OF THE WOODWORK
NEEDS REPLACING!!.......AND the teams that have moved to new stadiums wont
win more games there because they have nice seats.
Hang in at Goodison until the right move comes in.Didn't we get a draw at Arsenal's
new stadium....instead of getting the usual thrashing like at Highbury,so the new
stadium didn't help Arsenal with that one.
The rs new stadium will eventually cost more like £400million,yeh wont it shine,but
we can still beat them on that piece of grass in the middle.The pressure will be on them
they have to win things just like some of the other teams going down that line,and
most of them wont.We can with our decent squad win a couple of trophies over the
next couple of years....yes it's a small squad but luck with injuries will see us way
ahead of most of the others.....whilst still at Goodison.
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#19 Tony

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 16:25

Goodison is falling down! A new stadium cannot be built there because of cost and the footprint required.

The Loop is a non starter. A stadium the size we require will not fit. Again how is it going to be paid for?

The NO party seem to think that the club has not looked at alternatives. I am totally convinced they have and nothing suitable has come up.

The only viable offer on the table is Kirkby. The others are just vague ideas with no substance.

Goodison is a great place with great memories but it is now an embarrassment, and I would like to be able to see 100% of the pitch without straining my neck.

We deserve a decent stadium. Kirkby is the way to get one at a cost that we can bear. Let's not be confused: if its a no to Kirkby that opportunity will be gone. Voting no will mean that we are back to square one with no feasible way forward.

RS are excited about their new stadium but it has to be paid for. It is not paid for out of the owners pockets. The RS will be mortgaged up to the hilt and if they have a couple of bad seasons their financial situation will look precarious.

We have the opportunity to get a new stadium and minimise the risk to Everton. Other vague possibilities in the City or a rebuild at Goodison are not financially prudent, and if the money could be found would put us in a similar risky situation.

People talk about getting investment on board by selling the club to anyone who waves a wad of money. Do you want a foreign investor like Tom Hicks? Ask the workers in South Tyneside who were laid off when one of his firms went bust. They lost their jobs and he comes back to UK a few years later and buys RS FC. He is just as likely to cut and run when things go bad there.

I support the way EFC has progressed in the last few years, by good management, both financial and on the playing side. I have every confidence in them!

A new stadium is on offer at a great price. It is feasible. Vote YES.

From a proud Evertonian.
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#20 Hans sagars is my hero

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 16:56

i fully agree with the above post

i urge you all to think about the long term consquences if you vote no..

what does a no vote mean ?
it means that tesco and kirkby council will move without us...do you honestly think their attitude will be "yeah fair enough then, we'll hold fire investing in the area and growing until you made up your mind in a year or so. give us a call when you want, love you guys"

no chance....im afraid business doesnt work that way

im confused how you have lost confidence in the board. do you have any idea what actually is going on behind the scenes ? or just happy to listen to the whispers and scarmongers around different forums like the comedy "i saw kaka in a everton shirt" nsno ?
years ago, we were up to our eye balls in debt and flogging all our best players just to keep us alive (remember the ferguson transfer ? or micheal ball ? going further back, having to flog peter beardsley just to balance the books).
this is the board who is now attempting to sign gifted young players whilst also signing up its talent to long contracts. when was the last time we flogged a great player ? been a while hasnt it ?
it annoys me no end when some people bang on about the board being is a disgrace and not backing moyes with money..says who exactly ?? yeah we didnt sign smith,nugent or koumas..but who said we wanted them ? moyes says the board backs him 100% and have been excellent, is he a liar aswell ? as for haggling on players transfer fees, what is wrong with that ? you think arsenal accepted barca's first henry bid ? you think utd rolled over and accepted anything real offered them for beckham ?? haggling makes good business sense, any penny saved in one deal can be spent in another one. im an account manager for npower and have to do this on a daily business. and dont give me the "football is different to other businesses" - at the end of the day, its all about the p&l column on a spreadsheet.

on the stadium issue, do we honestly believe BK and KW sole objective is to sell out to tesco and take a bag full of money for themselves ? hell no...anybody who thinks that needs to see the blood sweat tears and money BK has invested into Everton, he's as loyal as anyone of us

dont be sucked into the total bs coming from the council and keioc. these jokers are clutching at straws and giving facts which are about as hard as my shit after 10 pints and two currys. the same council who have given us nothing for years and allowed the rs to bribe their way to a big new stadium on green belt land. the world is a small place, why has it taken the council this long to come up with these amazing alternatives stated by our favourite councillor ? you dont think that maybe they could have told us about this a long time ago ? do people honestly think our board havent been on at the council for years ? of course they have ! gees guys, wake up and stop believing all the bs coming from tinpot idiots who use forums to peddle their fuzzy ideas

please see both alternatives...if we say no, we could be scrambling around years trying to find another investment deal which matches this...if that will ever happen. knowing the lcc, if we vote no, they will spend the next 2 years pissing us about with a few "well we could.." ideas whilst raking in the cash from our red cousins new venture.
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#21 Barry Horne's Metatarsal

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 17:28

O.K, I've been reading the stuff on the ground move for ages, and I just had to stick my 2 pence in. I think loads of things are really clouding this debate.

Everyone loves Goodison, we all have our special memories of her (and we defo know our history)...but we've got to move. Rebuilding Goodison isn't going to happen, the costs, site, infra structure and upheaval during any type of renovation are unimaginable. We need modern facilities, we need to attract investment
(imagine...."Hello mister rich businessman come and look around our 100 year old stadium which needs replacing to the tune to 250 million...oh by the way would you like to invest in us?") and most importantly we need a threatre to match our aspirations to be back amongst Europe's elite. All these things are only going to happen on a new site. So if you're voting "NO" on the basis of your memories from your 20 year season ticket in the upper bullens then you're voting for a misty memory (beautiful though it is) and not the future of the club, or your kids and grand kids. I was at B.Munich and I want my kids to have that too.....and when the German's come back, I don't want them to say, "we went to this shitty old stadium in the shadow of a shiney Mac dome...but jesus the fans were mean bastards" , I want them to say "Jesus there fans are mean bastards....and that's a club that means business, you should see the shit hot state of the art Stadium they have just built."

So if you believe we need to move to progress, we get to the next point.....where is it built? Well since I was five I've been drawing pictures of what Everton's dream ground should look like, and where it should be. It held 250,000, was built where dale street is now (I flatten most of the centre), with car parking over Anfield and a park and ride that passed in front of the town hall for when we bring the silverware home. Pretty cool eh? But I bet your saying what a load of bollocks? Well when we are picking out our nice alternatives to Kirkby this is what we are doing. The club has been trying for YEARS to find a way of make this a reality, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE MONEY. That is the reason the club is pushing Kirkby it is because finally they have found a way to make it happen FINANCIALLY. Everyone is bleating on about the exclusivity deal. That deal was there because Tesco and Knowsley said, it you agree to work with us we are going to work our bollocks off to giving you what you need and make it happen, so do us a favour and in the meantime don't shag around, what do the say? Well considering we'd being trying to get metaphorically laid for years without success, I'd say "yer, lets see what happens". And they've delivered.

So what's next.... you don't want to move to Kirkby because it's outside Liverpool...bollocks, Kirkby IS Liverpool, and anyone who says they won't go the match anymore because of four miles is not worth arguing with. If someone like your mum who you loved, moved to Kirkby would you phone her up and say, sod this mum you've betrayed me, we've all forgot about you know you live down the road, so I won't be visiting anymore eh?

So then it must be the green eyes because of the red shite... It just naws away at you doesn't it? Is it some tit you work with that tells you it will be called the Tesco dome (fuck*r's never been the match like) "WE DON'T CARE"...we sing it all the fuck*ng time, so why don't we start living it?

So this leaves the design of the stadium...is it so bad?...what did you want? A wembly loop over the top? the 250,000 capacity? We have the opportunity to breakout to a site with the possibility to do ANYTHING we like in the years to come. Does Goodison look like it did when we moved in all those years ago? So what do you think is going to happen when is ten years time (please god) we bring the Champions league trophy home after doing the double? Think by any chance we might turn around and built a nice new triple tier stand with a hotel in the back to accomidate the Brighton Businessmen who want to bring their customers to see us? If you've been to any of the best stadiums in the world, San siro, Neu camp... they don't sit back to back with cobbled streets, they are in purpose built locations, away for the old town centres, and they have EVOLVED into the palaces they are today.

So all I have left is that you don't trust anyone at Everton in anyway at all. Peter Johnson (like a cheating wife) turned you into a bruised, and damaged individual, so you will never trust any leadership at the club ever again to do anything in the interests of the club. Well I can't help you with that, but it means not matter what the club does , or whom is at the helm, (of course unless it's an oil sheik from huyton who played and managed the club for 20 years, and drinks in your local, so you can sound him out about every detail of the running of the club) you'll always be angry and suspicious. You'll probably be getting angry tomorrow, shouting abuse at the board before the game, when you should be feeling those butterfly's with a big fuck*ng smile on your face as you sink your pre match Chang.

I have faith, I believe this is a step forward, I want to build new memories in our new ground. Shit I want to be there in 30 years when I tell my grandchildren how it was a real wrench leaving Goodison but we never looked back as we sit in worldclass stadium (where three sides don't even look like the pictures anymore, and the Tesco is gone to extend our car park - what was next to Goodison when it was built all those years ago?) and it was all possible because we bit the bullet and moved to our new site. I want to be there, and I want you to be too.

I'll expect the slating now :) but I hope at least a couple of you agree with the sentiment. Hope to see you tomorrow. 2-0 AJ and Arteta.
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#22 Tony

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 17:45

Spot on Horny. Moving to a site that allows for expansion shows ambition and a desire to move forward.
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#23 Blue 250

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Posted 10 Aug 2007 - 17:51

Starting to think myself lucky that I haven't got a vote on the moving issue!
Don't envy you guys that will decide Evertons future.

What do you do?....Gut feeling?What someone said down the pub?What you've read
on a forum?.....does that sway your vote?

Fate will decide and some will be unhappy!My only hope if we do move is that all
the Evertonians who have said they wont go and watch Everton,will realise that that
can only hurt Everton FC.surely wherever we go if it's with our present manager
and the majority of our present squad,if your a real Evertonian....you will follow!
Don't cut of your nose to spite your face.Stand by the team,isn't that what makes
Evertonians great?
Evertons greatest asset is their fans.....prove it!
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#24 toolio

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Posted 11 Aug 2007 - 09:23

u have got to look at it this way- the new stadium is basically costing everton feck all, which any money everton have will be spent on new players, the designed stadium is of excellent pedigree and will be fantastic if it gets a NO vote we will be a t Goodison for another 10 years at least as everton dont have 150m of there own money to buy a new stadium hence tesco are paying for new 1, so all the money everton get would have to go towards a new stadium and leave the manager with no money to strengthen squad, so u see its got to be a yes if u want to see everton progress, all you hear about on hear is people saying we need MONEY TO BUY an moaning bowt investment, well let me tell you if its a no vote u can kiss goodbye to everton progressing as there will be no money due to the fact they are saving

so come on peeps get a grip and vote yes

just my opinion tho
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#25 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 11 Aug 2007 - 09:52

The new stadium is part funded by Tesco and the remainder by us, thats 50mil from Tesco & approx 100mil from us whch we will raise by selling Goodison (They say for 15mil), stadium naming rights & a loan for the rest.

At the scotland road site we would get around 20mil more for naming rights with the location right on the city centre which would mean that site would cost Everton about 30mil more than kirkby. The possibility of comercial partners lika a hotel for example could mean that any deal on the table could quite easily match or better the Kirkby project. If you are realy considering or have voted yes because you believe a no vote leaves us skint your IMO wrong all a no vote does is makes Everton do a bit more work on other sites & possibly delay the build for a short period of time. The financial differences if any will be minimal.

It's all well and good claiming we need to move to raise money to but Kenwright will be off as soon as his share prices are up and there's no doubt in my mind we will follow the growing trend and bag us a money man. Then the only motivation to your vote "raising money" will be irelavant anyway.

Just an opposing argument for you to chew over!
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#26 StevO

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Posted 11 Aug 2007 - 10:01

hans, just a few points mate.

we arent selling our best players to balance the books anymore, we are now selling all our property instead.

the money BK has put into the club? BK borrowed all the money from friends, he may be a millionaire, but he is not rich by premier league standards.
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#27 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 11 Aug 2007 - 10:15

The new stadium is part funded by Tesco and the remainder by us, thats 50mil from Tesco & approx 100mil from us whch we will raise by selling Goodison (They say for 15mil), stadium naming rights & a loan for the rest.

At the scotland road site we would get around 20mil more for naming rights with the location right on the city centre which would mean that site would cost Everton about 30mil more than kirkby. The possibility of comercial partners lika a hotel for example could mean that any deal on the table could quite easily match or better the Kirkby project. If you are realy considering or have voted yes because you believe a no vote leaves us skint your IMO wrong all a no vote does is makes Everton do a bit more work on other sites & possibly delay the build for a short period of time. The financial differences if any will be minimal.

It's all well and good claiming we need to move to raise money to but Kenwright will be off as soon as his share prices are up and there's no doubt in my mind we will follow the growing trend and bag us a money man. Then the only motivation to your vote "raising money" will be irelavant anyway.

Just an opposing argument for you to chew over!

Im not saying that you have got your figures wrong but where did you come up with them from? The club claim it will cost us approx £15M while you say its £100M , just a bit of a difference me thinks!
Why would we get more money for naming rights for a ground in Speke or Aintree or Scottie Rd?
If we were to go ahead with the loop site where are you going to manage to fit a hotel? we can only just about squeeze a ground in there.
As for vote No lets hang around and wait for a multi millionaire to save us , no thanks ! Thats why I voted yes!
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#28 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 11 Aug 2007 - 10:35

Im not saying that you have got your figures wrong but where did you come up with them from? The club claim it will cost us approx £15M while you say its £100M , just a bit of a difference me thinks!
Why would we get more money for naming rights for a ground in Speke or Aintree or Scottie Rd?
If we were to go ahead with the loop site where are you going to manage to fit a hotel? we can only just about squeeze a ground in there.
As for vote No lets hang around and wait for a multi millionaire to save us , no thanks ! Thats why I voted yes!


Listen very carefully to what Big Kieth says about the funding of the Tesco site, he stated the build will cost approx 150mil (which is fair for a budget stadium), he then says Tesco will give us 50mil and with the sale of Goodison for £15mil, naming righst and "some additional debt" that's how it will be funded so Tesco put 50mil in and we put a further 100mil.

Naming rights at Scottie would be worth greatly more because it is a gateway to he city centre rather than an out of town shopping complex. The loop site is big enouh to fit every ground in the league on it bar Arsenals new one so "just about squeeze a ground in there" isnt entirely accurate.
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#29 Toffee Rapper

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Posted 12 Aug 2007 - 20:59

Listen very carefully to what Big Kieth says about the funding of the Tesco site, he stated the build will cost approx 150mil (which is fair for a budget stadium), he then says Tesco will give us 50mil and with the sale of Goodison for £15mil, naming righst and "some additional debt" that's how it will be funded so Tesco put 50mil in and we put a further 100mil.

Naming rights at Scottie would be worth greatly more because it is a gateway to he city centre rather than an out of town shopping complex. The loop site is big enouh to fit every ground in the league on it bar Arsenals new one so "just about squeeze a ground in there" isnt entirely accurate.


Lots of errors here goldfish, KW never said it would cost 150 mill to build, just that the stadium would be WORTH 150 million once built.
Also, I suggest you check your facts over the loop site, without 'enabling development' who is going to fund it? And as for access to the site, who is going to pay for all the bridges etc?
Even if a stadium could fit, which in fact it can't, who is going to help EFC financially to build it?

On a final note, this post by "ZED" has appeared on every forum and website since it was created by the KEIOC (under many different psuedonyms). I'm all for free speech but this smacks of spamming.

Edited by Toffee Rapper, 12 Aug 2007 - 21:06.

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#30 Bill

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 10:37

Going back on all these arguments for and against, it seems that the longer the debate has gone on a lot of the Figures have changed somewhat.

The original claim made by the board and in particular Kieth Wyness was that we would only need to invest £10 million, for furniture and fittings, for installing all the seats, it was basicly a free stadium.
As time has gone by the stadium that was then quoted as costing £100 million has increased with each letter that comes from the Club so it now Stands at 150 MILLION, by the time the vote is counted it will probably be up to 200 million.

A decent stadium will cost us the same to build in Kirkby as it will in the City, but we will get more money investment, and naming rights by being in the City, than we would being on a landfill site out on an industrial estate in Kirkby.

For gods sake how can true Evertonians even think of voting yes, you should all hang your heads in shame if this happens.
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#31 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 10:59

Going back on all these arguments for and against, it seems that the longer the debate has gone on a lot of the Figures have changed somewhat.

The original claim made by the board and in particular Kieth Wyness was that we would only need to invest £10 million, for furniture and fittings, for installing all the seats, it was basicly a free stadium.
As time has gone by the stadium that was then quoted as costing £100 million has increased with each letter that comes from the Club so it now Stands at 150 MILLION, by the time the vote is counted it will probably be up to 200 million.

A decent stadium will cost us the same to build in Kirkby as it will in the City, but we will get more money investment, and naming rights by being in the City, than we would being on a landfill site out on an industrial estate in Kirkby.

For gods sake how can true Evertonians even think of voting yes, you should all hang your heads in shame if this happens.


Exactly, every option will have a commercial partner interested once it gets past concept stage.

Tesco arnt doing this for the good of their health, whoever we end up partnered with stands to make alot of money from the deal so there will be company's falling over eachother to work with us. Don't unersell our global brand, we are a massive business!!
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#32 CraccerC

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 11:41

i would imagine the price of the land would be very different.

and i think tesco were going to be accountable for half of it 75 millions worth but with their construction discount thing would only cost 50 million. sothat would leave us with 75 to find, Goodison naming rights and whatever else, wouldn't be so bad.
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#33 Leadline

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 11:44

Going back on all these arguments for and against, it seems that the longer the debate has gone on a lot of the Figures have changed somewhat.

The original claim made by the board and in particular Kieth Wyness was that we would only need to invest £10 million, for furniture and fittings, for installing all the seats, it was basicly a free stadium.
As time has gone by the stadium that was then quoted as costing £100 million has increased with each letter that comes from the Club so it now Stands at 150 MILLION, by the time the vote is counted it will probably be up to 200 million.

A decent stadium will cost us the same to build in Kirkby as it will in the City, but we will get more money investment, and naming rights by being in the City, than we would being on a landfill site out on an industrial estate in Kirkby.

For gods sake how can true Evertonians even think of voting yes, you should all hang your heads in shame if this happens.


Sick of hearing the same old same old, fact is Everton need this move like it or not you can big up the Loop site all you want but is is not big enough for what we need and the fact is we need a commercial partner to be able to build in the first place and compete with other premiership teams financially. Moving to an industrial estate? don't know waht you reading mate but its gonna be in the centre of kirby in the borough of knowsley, plus did you know that for every £1 Liverpool FC city council are bringing in Knowsley council is bringing in £5 moving in the right direction I think. Plus in a few years Knowlsey will be under Liverpool City council anyway, no arguments.

I take it Licker that you reside in Walton?
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#34 Bill

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 11:53

No mate PETERBOROUGH. <_< It was a 380 mile round trip for me on saturday, the extra 4 miles is not the problem.


And just looking at your age, you were't even born when Kirkby was built THE WHOLE TOWN IS A LANDFILL SITE.
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#35 RuffRob

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 13:26

I must be honest I was most annoyed by this letter e-mail to be honest :angry: :angry: - In fact it stinks!!!

The Toffeetalk forum is a place for debat whatever your view isn't it - So to this end shouldn't 'Toffeetalk' forum as an entity should be unbais -

Let the views of the individual each be heard equally on the forum - that's what the forums for isn't it.

No matter what the thoughts or views of the individuals behind the scense of the forum are, I don't think you should be sending out e-mails to forum members under the 'toffeetalk' banner asking them to vote one way or another.

If you want to e-mail individual members with your own views then fair enough, you should sign the e-mail it as an individual and not as the 'Toffeetalk'. But then isn't the forum for airing views and debating thinks



I am a very very disapointed forum member - This to me is abuse of position, and the forum has lost some of it's appeal to me with this stunt!!!
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#36 GoldfishMemory

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 13:30

I must be honest I was most annoyed by this letter e-mail to be honest :angry: :angry: - In fact it stinks!!!

The Toffeetalk forum is a place for debat whatever your view isn't it - So to this end shouldn't 'Toffeetalk' forum as an entity should be unbais -

Let the views of the individual each be heard equally on the forum - that's what the forums for isn't it.

No matter what the thoughts or views of the individuals behind the scense of the forum are, I don't think you should be sending out e-mails to forum members under the 'toffeetalk' banner asking them to vote one way or another.

If you want to e-mail individual members with your own views then fair enough, you should sign the e-mail it as an individual and not as the 'Toffeetalk'. But then isn't the forum for airing views and debating thinks
I am a very very disapointed forum member - This to me is abuse of position, and the forum has lost some of it's appeal to me with this stunt!!!


The letter wasnt written by a ToffeeTalk member you know Rob!
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#37 StevO

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 13:45

I think i was the only member not to recieve the email!
but i'm with rob on this, i think as a group we should be unbiased.
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#38 RuffRob

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 13:59

I don't care who it was wrote by to be honest, thats not the point.

I am just pissed that an e-mail was sent direct to me by 'toffetalk' (a forum for unbais debate) asking me to vote a certain way.

Somebody sent that letter under the 'toffeetalk' banner trying to influence votes, which to me is wrong and out of order.

I don't mind my e-mail being used to be sent vital infomation about the forum (change of address or something) - But it pisses me off to be e-mail direct one side of an argument.

If we all had access to each others e-mails and send each other our own views all the time we would all be up in arms. The forum itself is for putting views and arguments across.

I would like to know why this one sided open letter was e-mailed direct to me (and other forum members I assume) and not just posted on the forum like all other views?

If this is not abuse of position, I don't know what is.
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#39 Bill

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 14:01

Its six of one and half a dozen of the others, Leahy's open letter has been posted on here as well as Wyness's plus his question and answers Video, are they not biased in favour of the yes voters, i think we should take pride in the fact that we show both sides of the Coin, trying to give both sides an equal shout, unlike the Club who are tossing with a two headed Coin.
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#40 StevO

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Posted 13 Aug 2007 - 14:03

BUT BILL, LIKE ROB IS SAYING, WE ARE BEING REPRESENTED AS BEING ON ONE SIDE RATHER THAN THE OTHER, WHERE WE, AS A GROUP, SHOULD BE IMPARTIAL.

(sorry bout the caps, accident, and too lazy to re type)
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