Elston Gunnn

Looked as if all 4 defenders (maybe just 3) messed up on the first Stoke goal. Then Galloway wasn't alert, lost 2 steps, as Shaqiri glided past him on the second. Wonderful goal, but Galloway allowed him to get in position. I'm not the only one who thinks we have to score lots of goals to win, as our defense breaks down shockingly several times each match.

Surprised to see Barry starting after heavy pitch and little recovery time. Maybe he's in super condition. Though both Barry and Martinez acknowledged late last season that Barry had played too many matches. Seems an odd decision, so I'll be watching Barry's energy, especially second half. If he falters, Gibson or Besic will get a chance. I'm glad Galloway starts. Baines is clearly our LB, but he may not yet be in shape to play 2 games so quickly. A little surprised that neither Mirallas nor Lennon is on bench. Maybe we'll see both Naismith and Cleverley in second half. Excited to see 2 matches in quick succession. Hope Stoke tires more than we do.

Injured ankle in training leading up to Leicester City. RM said he might be ready for Newcastle. I infer he will be available for Stoke. Possibly start, given the need for fresh legs, but more likely on sub bench.

Yes, Mirallas almost scored early, and created at least one other opportunity for himself. My lineup was more about tiredness, so if Mirallas can recover so quickly, absolutely he deserves another start. So from my set of starters, replace Osman with Mirallas. Or remove Naismith, if he can't go. Second half subs. At 45 minutes, if we're behind or tied and playing without energy, Lukaku in for sure. I suspect Lukaku will start, but this seems an ideal moment -- in a long season with 2 League Cup matches in January -- to give him a little rest and play him in the second half, if necessary. I just assume there will be lots of tired legs second half. For Stoke players, too.

No rest, heavy pitch at Newcastle, too bad it's probably a week too soon for Jagielka and Oviedo. Roberto implied that Naismith might be ready by Monday. Doesn't Lukaku need a rest? Barry, too? Maybe -- Howard Coleman Stones Funes Mori Galloway Gibson Besic Deulofeu Osman Kone Naismith Subs from Lukaku, Mirallas, Barkley, Cleverley, Baines

Either my logic is off, or yours is. As I read this thread, the issue of whether or not Roberto now gets credit for doing a fine job began with post # 113. -- yours. There you said: Then, several people posted that Martinez does indeed deserve credit -- for finally coming to his senses, starting a few different players, and using substitutes wisely. In short, for doing what quite a few of his TT critics (myself included) said might help. Indeed, it's pretty easy for Roberto's TT critics to give him lots of credit today, as to do so is not much more than saying, "See, we told you Roberto needed to do some things differently." How difficult could it possibly be to credit Martinez when to do so is little more than patting ourselves on the back. Piece of cake, Bob's your uncle. So, I repeat, either your or my thinking is illogical. I concede it might be mine. But now here you say, correctly, that some of us have been moaning that Roberto has not used the deep squad he and we say he has at his disposal. So, yes, we moaners have been urging him to do exactly what he -- finally, finally -- did today. I don't see a lot of "whinging." I see relief, joy even, that Roberto took our perfectly obvious advice. Now, admittedly, had Cleverley not headed in at the final second, and had we moaners then moaned about giving away another two points, or complained that Roberto should have brought on a brilliant, in-form Kone for that dolt Mirallas, etc., then yes, we moaners would be thereby revealed for the utter hypocrites that we are. But it strikes me as odd to criticize the moaners for what appears to be their satisfaction, not their disappointment and whinging, with Roberto's strategy and tactics against Newcastle. Unless I have totally misunderstood lots of stuff.

Why was Lukaku taking that free kick against Leicester, when either Mirallas or Baines seemed a better choice to curl it in? Lukaku's blast sailed way over. Against Newcastle, I hope Baines tells Lukaku to take a hike. Not that I expect him to do so. If we need a blast, I guess Lukaku is the choice. But for a curl into the upper corner, Baines or Mirallas, maybe Barkley. Not Lukaku.

I do tend to want to see 3 subs in the vast majority of our matches, saving the 3d for the 80th minute or after. Can be either to protect lead, player to push forward if need goal, or change of formation to attack opposing weakness, whatever. Long season, use deep squad if you actually think, as opposed to say, you have one. I admit I do want to see some of the other players get a chance. I think Lennon, Mirallas, Gibson are pretty good. But the specific issue right now -- festive fixture crunch in next 2 matches -- is tired players on Monday. Unless all EPL players are easily capable of 90+ minutes on little rest. Certainly several managers complain about this crunch time, so it seems an issue managers are thinking about how to manage. Get the ball to Deulofeu over and over and over. But at the first sign of petulance after 55 minutes, sub in Lennon. Deulofeu looks to wear out over the course of the season, emotionally as well as physically. Kone. And Barkley, if he's on one of his walkabouts.

The thing that most interests me is squad rotation and substitutions in the next 2 matches. Plenty of time to recover after Stoke to prepare for Spurs. But playing Stoke less than 45 hours after Newcastle means no time to recover properly. I'm sure this is a big problem for all clubs. I can't think of a bigger test of the claim -- Roberto's and ours -- that we have a pretty deep squad. In his press conference, Roberto mentioned Jagielka, McCarthy, Pienaar, and Oviedo as being "involved" at some point in the 7 matches over the next 3 weeks. All well and good, but Roberto's late comment in the press conference said none of the 4 would play Saturday, and I inferred that none would play Monday. He also mentioned a minor injury for Naismith, so I wonder whether he's unlikely for Saturday, but possible for Monday. But Roberto still has players who can help in this time-crunch next 2 matches. Will the back 4 play 90+ minutes in both matches? Galloway in for Funes Mori or Baines in either match? Robles? Or is Robles set only for Man City in the league cup? Will Roberto give some of Mirallas, Lennon, Naismith, Gibson, Besic, Osman a start in either match? Will Barry and Kone start both matches? Will a tiring Deulofeu play 80+ minutes both matches? Will Roberto use 3 substitutes in both matches?

Thanks to peteO for this link. The analysis in this article hits home, repeatedly. Repeatedly. Easily the most pointed yet sensible critique I have read. RM's "endless capacity to embrace phantom positives is a hollow virtue." Check. "His ability to sidestep salient negatives is a rich source of frustration." Check. Everton "are never more than one mis-step away from falling over themselves.... [and] have come to specialize in self-defeat." Check and check. "The story is [Everton's] sloppiness and the growing suspicion that these players aren't being held to anything like a high enough standard." Check. "There are never any visible consequences of defeat and players don't appear to suffer as a result of under-performance." Check. "This team needs to grow a winning texture." Check. "That's a manager's job and, from the week-to-week evidence, it's a task which Martinez is evidently neglecting." Triple check. If Roberto's philosophy, strategy, and tactics do not in fact change but nevertheless soon produce wins, maybe it's just been some bad luck, and the above analysis will be shown to have been overwrought, silly panic. I'd prefer that he show some flexibility, beginning Saturday with a somewhat altered starting team and active use of 3 substitutes.

It seems as if we need to try to win matches 4-3, as our defense is so disorganized. I suppose Roberto's reputation is that his offensive schemes are creative, but he just doesn't emphasize defending. Some pretty basic errors today, and habitually we seem to allow opposing players lots of space with the ball moving toward our goal. Don't close down effectively. I was thrilled with his appointment, but just have no confidence in him these days. The Kone-Mirallas saga is discouraging, to put it kindly. I doubt he'll be dismissed, but I don't see how one could claim he's doing a good job this season. Don't want to excuse all of the players, some of whom I've apparently overrated. Virtually all opposing teams appear to be more aggressive, energetic, determined.

Naismith doesn't make the bench. Good luck to him on his January departure for greener pastures. Not happy losing him and some others. Glad to see Besic's name. Hope we get more than Osman off the bench in the 91st minute. A 4-1 win would send some holiday cheer my (and your) way. Any win, really.

As a former Roberto enthusiast, I think I'm open to a defense/explanation of his decision not to use squad depth, not to replace tiring players in second half of many matches. But he hasn't provided any comments, other than to say we have excellent squad depth.

22 games and 22 points by mine.

I'd call it stubbornness rather than ignorance. Not sure about arrogance. Bullshit for sure, standard, every week. He prattles on, incessantly, about this player or that finally "enjoying his football," or needing to "enjoy his football," or getting back to "enjoying his football." Hard for a player to "enjoy his football" when he isn't playing any football. I was very enthusiastic at his hiring, and am dismayed at his stubbornness and friendly dishonesty. Maybe he's convinced he's a football genius, so that would be arrogant. Back to Barkley -- Hope, but doubt, RM is honest enough to admit Barkley had an awful day yesterday, uninvolved, two steps behind the play, dull, dull, dull. Need to start someone else there. Maybe let Naismith get a chance to "enjoy his football." Possibly his last chance at Everton.

RM: "Our intensity was as good in the second half as it was in the first." Well, he was a lot closer to the pitch than I. Gotta be some explanation.

There are probably more possibilities, but start with these 4. 1. Both the players and the manager are high quality, so our recent performances are really just down to bad luck, hitting the woodwork, etc. We're certain -- truly, almost literally certain -- to move up the table gradually. 2. Roberto is a football genius, but the players are failing, and not merely because of bad luck. They lack aggressiveness, focus, and are collectively, because quite a few are individually, overrated. Some specific players are way overrated by Everton fans. 3. The squad is, yes, deep with talent at most positions. Roberto is vastly overrated, has lost the plot re squad rotation, substitutions, formations, creating squad cohesion, playing favorites, He's a very nice guy, but out of his depth in the EPL. 4. Neither the players nor the manager are particularly talented. They are overrated. Unfortunately, we are in the table just about where our good-but-not-excellent talent level logically allows us to be. Mid table, 8-11.

Everton have become a laughingstock defending corners. I was an enthusiastic Martinez supporter when he was appointed manager. He seems a genuinely warm fellow. But either our players are far less talented than I thought, or Roberto is simply incapable of getting from them anywhere near their best. Either the players aren't up to the top-4 task, or Roberto isn't. Maybe not even the top-7 task.

Two pathetic halves, for entirely different reasons. Everton's motto this season is: two points given back, on request.

Energy has shifted noticeably to Norwich. Roberto in a fog? Mirallas and Naismith/Lennon on for Kone and Barkley. Probably be Only Osman at 88'.

Cleverley is very solid. Wish Barkley showed his energy. Guess their styles just differ. I prefer Cleverley's.

Lukaku seems unable to shoot straight unless Deulofeu has sent him the ball. Should be 3-0, 4-0.

Stones down. Left knee. Slipped.

Cleverley's energy and smarts are impressive.

Should take this one by 4-1, if Barkley decides to play. So far he's a non-factor. Cleverley very active, but not Barkley.