Bailey

If we were talking about playing him as a striker I wouldn't have too many issues. For me Sturridge has had a better season but I think Rooney will deliver more consistently. We are talking about Rooney playing in the number 10 position but he isn't good enough for that role IMHO especially when we have options in the squad who would add better dimensions. In response to Cotto, I would agree that Welbeck hasn't done anything to deserve a starting spot either but I wouldn't start with Rooney in his place out wide either. We don't have the quality throughout the starting 11 to just pick players and hope they pull it off through individual skill. The team should come at the expense of individuals and I would rather we either come up with a formation that suits these players or drop them for someone else who would perform better for the good of the team.

Rooney hasn't exactly been firing for Utd either not just England.

Reading too much into these friendlies is dangerous, after all Italy did draw with Luxembourg but even still its not looking particularly great. Hart, Jags, Cahill and Baines pick themselves. Johnson has been poor in every game so far but Im not sure if we have a better option unfortunately. Gerrard and Henderson have been decent enough together but after that it doesnt look good. Given Gerrard is already suffering from niggles his chances of playing every game is severly in doubt which leaves Lampard who has lost his legs completely and Wilshere seems to keep turning over the ball and his chances of not getting injured are slim as well. I would probably have Milner as my first rotation for Henderson as he at least has that engine and workrate that Gerrard will need his playing partner to have. Milner hasnt been played in the centre of midfield yet so that looks unlikely! We could regret not bringing Barry because he would have been the perfect foil for Gerrard given the way we are attempting to play. We have options in the attacking 4 positions but Sturridge is missing with chances he should bury, Rooney hasnt turned up yet and Welbeck hasnt shown me anything in the two games he has played a part in. We have some real raw quality in those positions with the likes of AOC, Barkley and Sturridge along with the slightly more cultured Lallana. Although the latter nor his ex team mate Lambert have done a great deal. I dont have too much of a problem with controlling the tempo and slowing the game down as long as we can quicken it up when we need to. The conditions are going to be difficuly and being able to play in bursts will be essential. The heat and humidity in the first game will be a real leveller. Italy is generally hotter than it is in the UK but I doubt that it is by much and given Italy are a difficult team to beat in the WC, catching them first time out in tricky conditions could be the time to get them.

I love that from Martinez! I would love to know what Rooney has done playing in the number 10 role to deserve a starting spot as most of the England set up (coaches and former players too) would lead you to believe. Beckham even said something like he had an unbelievable season!? He was average all year (started better than he finished mind you) and the only reason he escaped criticism is because he is English and Utd know that if they piss him off he will be gone. Im not saying that I would start Barkley mind you, especially if AOC is fit because I would probably go with Lallana, Sterling and AOC as the attacking 3 behind Sturridge (at least against Italy and Uruguay), but IMO he has shown far more than Rooney has in recent times on those last two starts alone.

Not necessarily against us signing him but not going to be jumping for joy either.

Not a great game at all but at least the Everton lads did well.

As if he rejected a move to Inter... More like they never wanted him in the first place.

We dont even know what the original loan fee was. Its all been pure speculation like most transfer fees/wages these days.

Good points Steve but I am still to be convinced. Let's just agree to only partly agree ha

Couldn't agree more.

That's why I think Higuain. I can't see Aguero staying fit/being fit enough so he would be a risk. Thanks for the Colombia info.

Disgraceful. I saw him shaking his head after the long ranger too.

Yeh I do think he will score goals and those goals are predatory goals which as you say will come year in year out hence why I do think he would be a reasonable purchase and get us 10 ish goals a year. What I was trying to get at and probably not very well is that they are your traditional CF goals, all ones I would expect Lula for instance to also be able to score. There is some shocking defending and GK on some of them (which will happen no matter what) and then the very fortuitous (villa, Norwich and the one he diverts from another shot) but again that happens. It's probably more coincidence that it has happen in this season's goals. Another thing worth noting is how none of those goals have come in the big games. He scored from a set piece in Madrid and he should have scored in Munich but they are all against your lower level prem teams. I know and that's why I highlighted it as a one off but that's not to say that Welbeck would not have enjoyed the same benefits having played out wide in periods of the season. Sometimes it wouldn't have helped but there would have been times where it did. You can't have it both ways

Lampard looked so slow it was unbelievable. I knew his legs were going but that really shocked me. His only role in this World Cup should be to come on in the 119th min for pens. I would also be very worried if Hart got injured cos Foster is awful. On the positive side of things Ross and Ox were the best players on the pitch. When Lambert got on the ball he looked decent but I could probably count the touches on one hand. Oh and Stones even did quite well at LB ha.

Thanks Mirallas. If I was building a portfolio I would probably go with Higuain & Lukaku to win and maybe Dzeko & Martinez (or Bacca?) EW. That would be £80 staked and I would hope to get around 12 goals from those players so maybe £60 in free bets plus any win or place money?

No no and just no! If anything you play Shaw as LB and Baines at RB because there is no way Baines would do a worse job that Johnson. I hate seeing FB's as wide players because they just arent as good, especially when we have someone like Sterling or Lallana who can offer so much more.

I think its somewhere in the middle. I do think they have a team full of players who are good enough to make an impact in the tourney and I think they have little touches that might make them a less predictable side than others (probably not the right way of putting it). For example they have the technical players like Hazard and Dembele coupled with the physical players like Lukaku and Fellaini. I would like to be the manager of that team in a knockout competition because they have plenty of ways to change their team in order to win. I dont think they can much other teams on an individual basis nor teams like Chile who are a well knit unit but they are somewhere in between and that could make them dangerous.

Would it not just be a better idea to stop with the petty nonsense and get back to actually have a decent debate about the skills (or lack of) Welbeck. I have looked back at some Youtube videos because they generally show every player in a good light but with Welbeck they are almost exclusively 40 yards out because the truth is that is where his best works comes. I dont think I have yet seen an occasion where he has tried to play someone else in on goal and that backs up exactly what I have seen of him in other games. His link up play is ok, nothing more, he close control on reflection is probably marginally better than Lukaku in that he has 'quicker' feet and maybe in that respect his dribbling too but its not by much. Its also worth considering that Welbeck has mostly plied his trade against smaller FB's in more space as opposed to Lukaku who has been working against CB's with little space. Welbeck should purely by chance have more time to control the ball, less pressure to control the ball and therefore more space to run into and more space to look up and play a pass. Dont forget, the one game Lukaku did play wide, he dominated from start to finish and made the most of the space I alluded too, albeit in just one game. In that respect I would like to see how Welbeck does with his back to goal against a compact back 4 and midfield 4, mainly because there arent a lot of examples of it and because given what I have seen, he would probably just as bad an option as Lukaku in those senarios. Yes he would be better in a defensive unit because he is more disciplined and works harder but if that is your biggest asset for a striker then it says all you really need to know. In terms of the build up play/passing that has been mentioned, I know stats arent the be all and end all but they do give you a little snapshot of a player and I think in this instance they show the key difference between the two players. I would say Welbeck is the better player from 50-30 yards out, he works harder, he has better acceleration to react to loose balls and this is where he seems happiest in terms of laying the ball off to someone else before making his way further up the pitch. When he gets into the goal scoring areas that is where his limitations show. I have seen a few good little dribbles he has made or where he has used his quick feet to create space but they take him wide or backwards most of the time. If he makes a run, he goes into a blind alley, he doesnt look up for options and it results in the ball turning over because he gets crowded out by the other teams defenders. Lukaku is more incisive. He isnt the best passer of the ball or the best decision maker but you can tell from what he does that he sees the pass and he knows how to bring others into the game to create a goal scoring opportunity and more often than not he takes that opportunity. You pay £20mil for Lukaku because he is a threat whereas Welbecks threat is limited. I have even watched back his goals this season and I would estimate over 75% of them were 1 vs 1's either from errors, poor defending/keeping or luck. I know every striker gets that element to their goals but it was more than I was expecting in truth. He scores a couple of nice ones though including the chipped goal against Swansea. Like Lukaku, he would be a decent enough signing at the right price but I would have Lukaku every day of the week ahead of Welbeck if I had a choice. Another thing to consider with Welbeck, is that he wont come cheap either. He would be one of our highest earners and IMO he hasnt done anywhere near enough to warrant that.

That made me laugh! How childish ?

Interesting points about the Argentina line-up/top scorers. Does anyone know how they are likely to line-up and play? Looking at the top goal scorers for their qualifying group it was Suarez (11), Messi (10), Higuain (9), Falcao (9). With the current odds then its a fair assessment to think Higuain would be a good bet. I wouldnt back against Suarez scoring a few against Costa Rica and as long as he scores one maybe against us or Italy and they get out of the group he would also be big at 22/1 (providing he is fit - maybe worth waiting). Checking the other groups, what about Colombia? With Falcao out who is likely to be their main threat now? The question with them is ultimately how far will they go in the competition. The other likely team to progress in Argentina's group is Bosnia. I could see them scoring goals against the other two teams and they dont necessarily have the worst chance in the last 16. 50/1 for Dzeko could be interesting? Then finally you have Belgium and Lukaku albeit I would say his odds are a little skinny at 22/1 right now. You could see him dominating in games against Korea and Algeria and its not like Russia are much cop at the back either.

Sturridge always had more about him but at the same time he was more inconsistent. I remember when he signed for Liverpool a lot of people were hoping he would come here. I wasnt but only on a tactical point of view because he would have been useless under Moyes. Lukaku's build up play is actually pretty good. Its not world class but neither is Welbecks. I havent seen either Utd or Sunderland be able to build sustained attacks off of Welbeck, which is what he would have to do should he want to come here. As you saw for England, his first touch was decent enough but a lot of the time fuck all happened with it. He either ran in to an alley, gave the ball away or even worse he sucked the pace of a counter by playing backwards (Rooney was far worse in that category though!). If Welbeck's playmaking/attack building abilities were as good as you suggest he would surely have more than 1 assist this season, especially given his role in the team? As I said, I think he is a decent enough player and if he came here I think he would be a limited success. I think he would score some goals, bring others into play ok and work hard defensively but he wouldnt make the same impact as Lukaku.

Saw Ledson play in one of the reserves or U18 games and he definitely stood out. He doesnt do anything too flash and isnt going to be the new Iniesta but he is technically very good, has a good engine and he reads the game well. If he does continue to develop then a midfield of him, McCarthy and Barkley would be very interesting. He needs some 1st team experience first though so it will be interesting to see what happens over the summer.

Plus Welbeck was playing for a manager that loves guys with his attributes and if one striker was going to flourish at Utd while Moyes was there it would have been him.

Thats just crazy... Lukaku's finishing and link up play are far superior to Welbecks. I think they are probably level in the touch stakes, but Lukaku has a better understanding of the game and when to play the pass or more importantly when to move into space. Even athletically I would still have Lukaku because he shows it when it matters and not 40 yards from goal like Welbeck. The latter may be able to win more headers or cover the ground a little better but Lukaku will be the one holding the defender off to slot the ball in the back of the net or dragging two defenders with him allowing a midfielder to burst into the space he has vacated. I dont think Welbeck is as bad as some people make out but for me he is nowhere near the same level as Lukaku and he never will be either and I think a lot of people seem to either be in one camp or the other. For me he would be a good signing for a lower table team who have money to spend. I think he has the potential to get 10-15 goals a season in the right team as an out and out striker but lets not make him out to be anything more than he is.

The odd game does nothing tho. Vic especially didnt get the game time when he needed it, JV was constantly injured and hard to argue either way, I dont think Baxter got 90 mins and Hibbert/Osman came through at a time when we didnt have much of a choice Hibbert made his debut before Moyes was at the club and probably only got his chance cos of the injuries to Watson. Osman was 23 ish I think before he played regularly (and played as a winger). Rodwell did get game time but got injured yet thats it over a 10 year reign. Im not saying that the players who have dropped down the leagues and done well would ever have made it as Premier League players but they were never given a real chance despite the small squad, crippling injury lists and the poor form of the first team. Its too coincidental that in Martinez's first season that 2 players who were either never used or sparingly used now have England caps.