Bailey

Id rather we just kept Barry instead. I havent really been impressed by him since he joined Arsenal.

Thought he was excellent when we played them earlier in the season. No thrills type of player but can be relied upon when needed.

I watched him in the U21 WC and he was one of the stand out players but the figure quoted is far more than we can afford and sounds like bollocks to me.

Yeh with that long left on his contract it is far too much. £4mil would be fair.

I get the feeling he is just trying to keep the lad motivated. We may need him come the last game of the season and if Martinez comes out and states he isnt interested in keeping him next season, there is no carrot for the player to get fully fit or give a toss in training.

Surely its fickle to slag Alcaraz off for having one poor game when he has been excellent in every other match he has played in an Everton shirt. Not to mention that in the game in question he was left pretty exposed given how we played and the captain alongside him was an absolute shambles as well. I think our best CB pairing has probably been Stones & Distin all things considered. Not saying they have been faultless but they are improving all the time from a slightly rocky start, especially as Stones has started to believe he is a first team regular. You just used the games Alcaraz has played in and not the ones he has been fit but not in the 11 (albeit there arent a huge amount). Alcaraz has come in and done what we needed him to do when he has been called upon. Its shame he has been injured, but to get a guy of that experience and footballing ability for no fee and low wages is very rare in football these days. We could have pissed £14mil and £75k a week up the wall for Sakho for example!

He reminds me a bit of Ramsey from last season. He did a lot of work on the ball, playing nice passes, always looking to move around the pitch and get on the ball but then lacked that final pass or finish and he even lost the ball cheaply at the other end of the pitch and gave the ball away in bad positions too. Ramsey has come back this season and turned a huge corner. I dont know what happened or what really clicked during the summer but he has added that clinicism and confidence he lacked previously and I think Cleverley is the same. He is a good passer, he links play well, he reads the game well, he finds space and gets into good areas but couldnt finish off his good work (which was typified in one England game where he did everything but score). From there on his confidence has gone and recently we have seen a player scared to get on the ball and afraid to make things happen. If Martinez could get his confidence up and get him enjoying his football again, which I have no doubt that he could, then even £8mil could be a snip because after one good season his value would easily double. On the other hand, you could end up with a player that cant rekindle that fire and burns an £8mil hole in your pocket which is something we cant afford.

I think Colback is a cheaper alternative to Cleverley, especially based on this seasons form. I think Cleverley probably has the potential to develop more than Colback does but considering the fee and wages, I know which one I would be more inclined to go for.

I love how you slate someone elses post and then dont actually provide any reasoning or evidence. Nikica has started an interesting topic and all you come up with shite like the above post or the "Gerrards the best and if you dont agree your clueless" bollocks acting as if you are the be all and end all of football knowledge and that your opinion is all that counts and anyone who disagrees is a moron. So in the last couple of seasons how many big games has he pulled Liverpool through to win? Im not talking about converting a penalty here or there, I mean really step up to be this World Class player that you claim he is? There was one game this season where I thought he was really good (although I cant remember which game that was) but other than that he has just been another cog in the machine rather than the standout player. I'm not saying thats a bad thing but it doesnt make him World Class which is the point of this thread. Out of interest, what traits do you think make Gerrard such a good player?

I would agree with you Nikica, although I would say that if world football was played the British way then he probably would be considered World Class. In the really big games (from open play) he doesnt really show up as often as you would expect, especially at the latter end of his career. The pundits and media will always show what he has done in a match and ignore the far more important elements from less aclaimed players and in truth I think his impact from open play has been good but nothing special for most of the season. When Liverpool had their wobble, he was partly responsible by giving away cheap free kicks or losing possession in dangerous areas and I think it was when Gerrard was out that Liverpool (and Henderson in particular) stepped it up another gear and kicked on. I dont have the time to look at his stats for this year to back that up mind you and wouldnt put money on it!

I dont have any sympathy for Moyes in the slightest and quite frankly I dont see why anyone should. He tried to play with the big boys and he got well and truly found out. He had his chance to change things, he had his chance to bring new ideas and philosophies to the fore and he had his chance to show that he wasnt just a run of the mill manager who played dour football with little cutting edge. Instead he failed miserably, he brought 11 league defeats upon the team that won the title just the year before, he spent millions on players who arent performing and his team have played truly awful football for the majority of the season. He then ramps up his own ego, pretending to be one of the big boys with his snide comments about our club, our players and our new manager highlighted in the comment Steve_E posted above. In some ways I think its a shame that he has been sacked because with him in charge, Utd were only going one way, but at the same time to see his 'mighty' Utd team soundly beaten by little old plucky Everton with the team he bought, the team he belittled, and the get sacked in the aftermath of that loss is truly priceless. Call me bitter, but I watched him to do to Utd in one season in what he has been doing at Everton for the last 5 years, and to see youth,imagination and belief shine through at the club where only doubt, mediocracy and staleness had clouded for those years brings me a great deal of satisfaction. Maybe now Moyes will take a step back and have a long hard look at himself in the mirror and find that spark he had when he first took over at Everton because he needs to if he is going to rebuild his career.

In this instance though Cornish, it wasnt the taking risks that cost us, it was just basic defending. If he gets caught playing a ball out from the back or taking too many touches then fine, I understand thats the way we play and that is whats going to happen every now and then, but in this instance it wasnt.

After timing at its best really, especially considering that you have been the one calling for McCarthy to be dropped for Barkley in exactly these type of games. We didnt lose the game through the starting 11, we lost the game by not taking our chances and allowing Palace to take theirs. Howard definitely deserves some criticism tbh. Looking back at the goals, he is far too slow to react to the first, the second he doesnt move his feet and even the 3rd he might have been able to stop on another day. If Robles had played that game everyone would be up in arms. You say Martinez struggles to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball but I think you will find a lot of teams struggle to win games against teams like that. Barca struggled at Celtic a couple years back and their is a far greater difference in ability between those two teams that their were on Weds night. Dont forget we pretty much got 4th place under Moyes by doing the exact same thing. We actually did pretty well to score two goals and create enough chances to win the game. The way we lost the game was by conceeding 3 sloppy goals from 4 Palace attacks. Regarding corners, we were no better under Moyes towards the end of his tenure (scoring wise). We have had chances (even Lukaku got on the end of one wednesday and should have done better) but I do agree that it is such an important part of the game that we have to be a little creative and work on more set moves. I dont really know what is happening defensively at corners because each time it is someone losing their man. You can work on them as much as you like in training but if an individual switches off and the delivery is right, there isnt much Martinez can do about it.

I get the feeling its going to be one of those games that blows up in our face. We should beat Utd and not for the first time, I think we have a similar level of quality on the pitch, but I can just see them having everything go their way. Im not even sure I am going to be able to watch the match, which I think might be a Godsend.

Like others have said, Stones looks ultimately culpable for two of their three goals and whilst one was unlucky and he played a blinder still that alone is enough to warrant that he doesnt get MOTM.

Yet 3 other people have mentioned him as having a good game? I really dont even know why I bother with you.

What exactly did he get wrong then? McCarthy starting or not starting didnt really make much difference. Barry was more wasteful than usual tonight but he has done that before alongside McCarthy anyway. Barkley also played well from deep. We played 3 attacking players behind the striker in Mirallas, McGeady and Deulofeu and I dont see how he completely ballsed up that decision. Mirallas played well for the most part, Deulofeu was played to expose their FB which he did but didnt deliver the final pass and whilst McGeady was frustrating he did a fair amount of good things too. The one area that I do think he missed out on was starting Lukaku ahead of Naismith. Im not sure if I mentioned it on here or somewhere else pregame but Naismith's movement and awareness of space would have been more suited to a packed defence whereas Lukaku is far more suited to running at teams and counter attacking like he did against Arsenal. Other than upfront I dont really understand what else anyone could have been expecting. This was always going to be a test of our patience and we didnt succeed. We forced the ball too often when a pass wasnt on and at other times we ignored a pass that was on. Unfortunately these type of games happen and if you dont convert the chances you create or make the most of the opportunities you find yourself in you wont win the game.

Was he bollocks. I have seen him play far worse and get far more praise for the performance he put in tonight. As I mentioned he should have had 2 assists and a goal walking off the pitch today.

Ross for me. Didnt stop all night and while not everything came off he should have been finishing that game with 2 assists and a goal. Stones a close 2nd.

Gutted about this result... Cracking effort from the lads though, they never gave up and kept pushing. The only two players I thought let us down were Lukaku who was next to useless and shows that he isnt the player you want to be starting games against packed defences (albeit we knew that already!) and Osman who's passing was a disgrace and for all his clever movement and the good positions he found it all went to rat shit once he tried to lay the ball off. Palace were probably the last team from the bottom of the table that we would have wanted to come up against but that gives us no excuse for conceeding 3 goals to them. Baines was far too weak, and almost a bit naive for the first, set pieces were again our achilles heel for the 2nd and yet another slip cost us the 3rd. They were the only real chances they created all night but fair play, they tucked them away and sadly we didnt. I also didnt mind that we were passing it around still at the end because we did create one great chance from it and that was the whole point, we just needed Mirallas to put it away.

Mirallas has to score...

Osmans passing has been horrific.

What a pass and finish! C'mon get another 2!

How can we not score these fecking chances... Thats the difference.

What is it with our players and fucking slipping... Stones blocks that if he doesnt lose his footing! Aaargghhhh