Kenwright, Is He Similar To Gillete & Hicks?

[carlmc25]

Ever considered the 35mil is the initial investement??

 

I cant find the press releases but hows this?

 

After explaining what Tesco is contributing to the project, a specific stadium cost of £110M is finally mentioned in Terry Leahy’s open letter, this is later confirmed by Keith Wynes as the true net cost of the stadium. Keith Wyness is confident, some would say over confident, that the sale of Goodison, £15M, and naming rights, minimum £25M, will raise a combined £40M in contribution towards that cost, this leaves a figure of £70M which needs to be accounted for through a combination of vague “discounts” and some unspecified long term debt taken on by Everton. Perhaps Barr’s new owners (sold in June 2007, a fact conveniently omitted) wont want to build a stadium for nothing. They are, remember, a business who operate in a low margin industry and whose profits are measured in single million figures.

 

If this all adds up to you then good luck but it doesnt add up to me. Also the mention of naming rights above also highlights the fact that KW plans to spend a large part of our "increased revenue stream" up front on the actual stadium leaving no money for players and the like which was the purpose of the move in the first place.

 

Anyway back on topic, this confusion is one of the jewels in Kenwright's crown. I think not!!

At the end of the day no one can categorically state exactly how the finances work out, we can only go on what we're told unless you are an insider. What you can be sure of is that the board will have looked at the numbers long and hard and must think this is feasible otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. They will be doing all of it under the guidance of the top experts in the business, so you have to have a little trust. I think Kenwright has earned out trust, I read before that he is the only Premiear League Chairman who doesn't even take a salary for his job. If that is true, then surely that says it all about his committment to Everton. Anyway, I think we must have explored every option in this thread now! maybe we should just move on and lock it or something!

[Bill]

did you read my post, numbers weren't bandied about - I quoted the open letter from the Tesco CEO to Everton fans. This is not rumour or conjecture or open to misinterpretation, he said the stadium would cost us £35m - fact. The whole development may cost £400, but the stadium should cost about £150 when opened, £200 when finished, and will cost us £35m. That is what we have been told, if it's a lie then it's a lie, but for now that's all we have to go on so why question it?

 

So you are gullible enough to believe that a Stadium worth £200 million pounds is only going to cost EFC 35 million.

 

And this is the 50 million pounds i said had been bandied about, From the Echo in July.

 

I’m more concerned by Keith Wyness’s comments: “We will be getting a very nice stadium for a small amount of money.”

When something sounds too good to be true, it’s because it usually is.

The stadium images released today are undoubtedly impressive.

But where will the £150m cost of the enterprise come from?

We’ve been told that Tesco will pump in £50m via Knowsley Council, and naming rights are likely to generate a further £10m, but Tesco have since said that no money will be handed over to Everton.

So at this moment in time EFC can come up with £15m with the sale of Goodison and £10m for naming rights.

 

 

So i'll ask again where do you think the moneys coming from, to buy a £200m Stadium.

[StevO]

carl if you really believe what people who have a lot to gain from this move want to tell you then fine.

but ask yourself, if everyone else here knows about it costing us £150m, then there is no smoke without fire.

take a look around broadsheet articles (not the sun) supporters clubs, find where the info came from like we did.

this info came from the club, spread through the media, even the echo.

 

also, you said yourself, Sir Terry is a very clever business man, this is his party, we've just been invited, but we have to bring the booze or no one will get wasted!

[carlmc25]

carl if you really believe what people who have a lot to gain from this move want to tell you then fine.

but ask yourself, if everyone else here knows about it costing us £150m, then there is no smoke without fire.

take a look around broadsheet articles (not the sun) supporters clubs, find where the info came from like we did.

this info came from the club, spread through the media, even the echo.

 

also, you said yourself, Sir Terry is a very clever business man, this is his party, we've just been invited, but we have to bring the booze or no one will get wasted!

But then I don't understand why Everton would move to Kirkby if we're getting very little out of it. It's not as if Kenwright is on a mission to destroy the club so if it isn't a good deal why would he go ahead and do it? If we have to pay over £100m for Kirkby then I can't possibly see Everton going along with it. You hear a lot of rumours and speculation, I've been hearing it for years about all sorts of things, but until I see something official then I keep my mind open. I believe Everton won't be paying much for the new stadium, based on the statements that have been officially released and based on the assumption that if there is nothing in it for Everton then why would we move?

 

If it makes me gullible then so be it, but I don't see how Everton could possibly get away with winning a fans vote on a new stadium, based on projections of only having to pay about £35m, then turning around and saying 'actually, we're paying £150m for it.' If that happened, the board must know they'll be out of a job and fast. I can't see the logic.

[GoldfishMemory]

But then I don't understand why Everton would move to Kirkby if we're getting very little out of it. It's not as if Kenwright is on a mission to destroy the club so if it isn't a good deal why would he go ahead and do it? If we have to pay over £100m for Kirkby then I can't possibly see Everton going along with it. You hear a lot of rumours and speculation, I've been hearing it for years about all sorts of things, but until I see something official then I keep my mind open. I believe Everton won't be paying much for the new stadium, based on the statements that have been officially released and based on the assumption that if there is nothing in it for Everton then why would we move?

 

If it makes me gullible then so be it, but I don't see how Everton could possibly get away with winning a fans vote on a new stadium, based on projections of only having to pay about £35m, then turning around and saying 'actually, we're paying £150m for it.' If that happened, the board must know they'll be out of a job and fast. I can't see the logic.

 

We don't get very little out of it we get what everyone gets when they build a new stadium that's the point regarding the stadium, we get less out of this than both Knowsley & Tesco so it begs the question why not go another hundred million in debt and go it alone?

[zequist]

Correct me if i'm wrong JD but i gather you are trying to tell us that Kenwright is the best option. Or did you miss out on a category "E".

 

Actually, you are wrong. The point of my post was not to suggest that BK or anyone else was our "best" option (which is not what I think anyway - I don't know who our "best" option would be and I wouldn't even try to guess). My point was to highlight the basic ownership styles and philosophies vis-a-vis the economic and personality poles.

 

Economic: Does the owner set a generous budget, and not even sweat too much about going over it if he thinks it's necessary or if it's a short-term hit that can yield long-term benefits (B, C)? Or does he set a tight budget and refuse to break it unless there's an absolute dire emergency (and sometimes not even then) (A, D)?

 

Personality: Does the owner believe that an organization functions best when you put football people in football positions and let them do their jobs, overseeing but not interfering (B, D)? Or is he a demanding, meddling mini-dictator who treats the team like his own personal fiefdom, demands a say in every decision, and starts giving people the chop if they disagree with him, criticize him, or lose three games in a row (A,C)?

 

As I said in my post, a type B owner (generous but hands-off) is clearly the kind that 99% of fans (including myself) would want for their team, and BK is definitely not a B. He just doesn't have the money for it. But he's far from the worst owner in the league, and trust me, as someone who grew up near San Francisco I've seen firsthand the difference between a great owner and a horrible owner, because the SF 49ers of the NFL went from maybe the best in the league when Eddie DeBartolo (a B type) owned the team, to maybe the worst in the league when his brother-in-law John York (an A type) took over. If Everton had a John York clone in the owner's chair (incompetent, skinflint, no organizational planning, no long-term financial planning, doesn't know the first thing about running a sports team) you'd be begging for Kenwright to come back. If you still even cared, that is, because they'd probably be down in League Two by then. Kenwright isn't the best owner in the EPL, but he could be a hell of a lot worse. His long-term financial planning leaves something to be desired and he has an image problem - deserved or not - that he can't seem to shake (some of the threads on this board are proof enough of that), but his people sense and organizational planning are demonstrably better than those of many owners, and whatever else you may fault him for, you absolutely have to give him credit for sticking with Moyes in seasons 2 and 4 when probably 90% of his peers would've pulled the plug - he made the right decision to tough it out and it's paying off.

 

And yes, I would rather have BK than Hicks/Gillette. Gillette's almost irrelevant anyway - he's the lower-profile parter, and his teams have never done a damn thing. Hicks is the big money/high profile guy, and he is notorious for turning his American sports clubs into Newcastle-equivalents: superstar signings every year, huge wages shelled out, some of the highest payrolls in his respective sports, and very poor results to show for it (he's the one who offered Alex Rodriguez a $250 million dollar contract to play baseball for Texas, and all he got for it was three straight years in last place before he finally gave up and sent ARod to the Yankees). The one championship he won (with the Dallas hockey club in '99) was more inherited than earned - except for the goalkeeper position, the nucleus of that team was already in place when he bought the team, and you could argue with the talent they had in the late 90's that they should've won at least two or three titles, not just one. The way he's run Liverpool so far, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they ended up going down the same road - big money for bad results every year. If that was what I wanted when I was picking an EPL team to root for five years ago I'd be over on the Toon message board right now, not here.

Edited February 13, 2008 by JD in DC

[Pat]

Again I am not Bill's biggest fan,

 

However, If Kenwright is so maligned, would the majority have rathered Peter Johnston stayed on ?

[StevO]

But then I don't understand why Everton would move to Kirkby if we're getting very little out of it. It's not as if Kenwright is on a mission to destroy the club so if it isn't a good deal why would he go ahead and do it? If we have to pay over £100m for Kirkby then I can't possibly see Everton going along with it. You hear a lot of rumours and speculation, I've been hearing it for years about all sorts of things, but until I see something official then I keep my mind open. I believe Everton won't be paying much for the new stadium, based on the statements that have been officially released and based on the assumption that if there is nothing in it for Everton then why would we move?

 

If it makes me gullible then so be it, but I don't see how Everton could possibly get away with winning a fans vote on a new stadium, based on projections of only having to pay about £35m, then turning around and saying 'actually, we're paying £150m for it.' If that happened, the board must know they'll be out of a job and fast. I can't see the logic.

 

thats the whole point carl, thats why were questioning the actions and integrity of the people involved. the numbers dont add up, please dont believe everything they tell you.

remember, first and foremost Sir Terry is a businessman, he wants whats best for him. secondly, Wyness is not an evertonian, if he makes a mess he just walks away, not a problem, hes done it before in previous roles.

if we question them we may find out the truth, we may get what the club and its fans deserve, or they may simply ignor us and do what they want anyway.

[carlmc25]

thats the whole point carl, thats why were questioning the actions and integrity of the people involved. the numbers dont add up, please dont believe everything they tell you.

remember, first and foremost Sir Terry is a businessman, he wants whats best for him. secondly, Wyness is not an evertonian, if he makes a mess he just walks away, not a problem, hes done it before in previous roles.

if we question them we may find out the truth, we may get what the club and its fans deserve, or they may simply ignor us and do what they want anyway.

obviously if the numbers do change and we end up paying a lot of money for a stadium in a suspect location then I'll be changing my mind fast on what an amazing deal BK has got for us, I just hope the numbers we were originally quoted were correct! otherwise I would have thought there will be riots! fingers crossed we're still only paying somewhere around the £35-50m.

[StevO]

obviously if the numbers do change and we end up paying a lot of money for a stadium in a suspect location then I'll be changing my mind fast on what an amazing deal BK has got for us, I just hope the numbers we were originally quoted were correct! otherwise I would have thought there will be riots! fingers crossed we're still only paying somewhere around the £35-50m.

 

if it was only £35m i'd back it all the way to kirkby, but we'll just have to see how they get out of it.

i honestly dont think BK is the one making the mess here, it believe its KW. we all know what a romantic evertonian BK is, a little bit of spin and some bright lights and i think hes got Bill hooked.

[Calico]

He was, he looked at us first.

 

Well sh!t.... and he was genuinely interested in the club even with the state it was/is in?

[CraccerC]

i believe that's what he said.... would have been interesting

[GoldfishMemory]

Notice even with talk of Kirkby there has apparently been no interest from investors. I wonder if some will be attracted with planning permision should it be granted?

 

How much more interest do you think would be generated with a Liverpool City centre planning application granted?

[Calico]

i believe that's what he said.... would have been interesting

 

Damn right it would have been!

[Louis]

CarlMc,

 

This is a verbatim quote from Robert Earle at the AGM:

 

"The Kirkby stadium cost was around £50 million when first floated. After the feasibility study and the Board’s wish that supporters only received the highest quality seating, facilities, environment etc., the cost rose to about £75 million.

 

Due to construction costs, the figure then became approximately £100 million. Now, because construction costs have risen again, the total stadium cost at Kirkby is in the region of almost £150 million"

 

Also in http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/...00252-19485345/

 

it states "It will cost £150m, rather than the £75m price tag reported this week."

 

Incidentally the article also shows the bias of the Echo, the stadium cost rises £75million and it's summed up in one sentence, had it been 'you know who' it would have been all over the back pages that the cost has increased. More should have been made of it, the same could be said for when Earle said Tesco were giving 55million quid to Everton, they're not and never have been (they're a plc) yet the Echo never questioned it and published it.

 

There are still people out there who believe the stadium will cost £35million and that Tesco are giving Everton £55million. This is not true.

[Rupert_Fuffeinsmuir III]

I have mixed views on Kenwright, he is a much better option than some relatively unknown (to us) American or Russian 'investor' but at the same time I don't believe he has ever searched 24/7 in the manner he says he has for investment. Even during the FSF debacle, it was clear from the start that Kenwright was only going for that because he could remain as chairman and be the public face of EFC alongside Moyes. The same is true regarding his relationship with Robert Earl, who appears to be a fully paid-up of member of the BK Admiration Society. But Paul Gregg was also one, once.

 

Having said that, I have no doubts about his passion for the club and he has presided over a period of harmony and stability which (all credit to David) have seen our on-field reputation and fortunes rise rapidly. We are shortly coming to the moment of truth for the club where the powers that be must decide if they are happy to maintain things as they are or if we are going to unite together and FIGHT to break the current stranglehold. I despair at some of Bill's public utterances with references to 'pulling rabbits out of hats' etc. The reality is we are where we are by a miracle and the net spend on transfers during Moyes' tenure is on one hand a reason to applaud Moyes' true managerial pedigree whilst at the same time an embarrassment and a disgrace to those in positions above him.

 

I would question Bill's desire to see us bridge the gap considering how much of a shambles we were when Moyes took over, it must be beyond his wildest dreams looking at the club currently. Neither with our present manager do we actually need an enormous cash injection, it's just that £30 M net to spend in a summer (nothing phenomenal by our rivals standards) would in my view be hugely beneficial and pay off significantly in terms of what we could achieve. People like Lord Grantchester, Ian Kilbride and others have been mentioned but I would doubt they would be willing to sign cheques under Bill's watch regardless of affection for the club. People don't hand over money easily.

[GoldfishMemory]

Thats a decent round up of how I feel, the long game has worked wonders so far but largly down to Moyes IMO. For the future we have to decide if we stick with the current long game and risk fustration from fans, players & inevitably manager or we build. I believe now is the time where we must take the 15mil pushing 20mil spending limit and make it 30mil+ or Villa and City at least will leave us behind next season.

 

Kenwright has been the present for so long its now time to look to the future, you can say the grass is always greener but the reality is Kenwright can not afford to take us any further.

 

Whatever hapens I'm enjoying being blue!