Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I mean ffs, do you honestly think anyone on the continent thinks Baines is one of the world's premier LBs? This is insane. Well, Bayern Munich seem to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Your problem is that you seem to have the attitude that you may not always be right but you're never wrong. You said I was being pompous before but that's how you come across with the majority of your posts. Like you know more than any one else. Whether that's how you intend to be I don't know, but that's how you come across. That's not my intention at all. Conviction in one's views does not equate to a superiority complex. But do you really think the world rates Baines as one of its top left-backs? Go on any neutral forum and ask the question, and see what answer you get. I get that as Everton fans you will have an element of bias towards your players, but... that contradicts itself in my mind...it's like you're saying to be the best you have to play 10/10 every week This is all becoming very pedantic. My point was that if Baines has been better than Cole for two years, why is Cole still the best LB in the world? Two years is a long period so superiority over that period would be more than enough to put one player above another. Yakubu had a good 5 months or so. That's totally different. I do agree with you that talent overcomes form, but if Cole has been inferior to someone for a whole two years, talent doesn't matter much does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hopefully not as I dont want him to leave. Its the usual because he is at Everton and not at United, Barca, Munich etc tht he isnt classed as world class. I couldnt care less ab out tags. Your so anti premier league its unreal. i'd have to agree with this and yeah i would say a lot of it is because he is english...how many english players actually move abroad? and you're sayin utd can't attract the best players in the world still? fuck me..cos they didn't win a cup for one year in a row they are suddenly not able to attract anyone...barca won fuck all too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hopefully not as I dont want him to leave. Its the usual because he is at Everton and not at United, Barca, Munich etc tht he isnt classed as world class. I couldnt care less ab out tags. Your so anti premier league its unreal. How exactly am I anti-PL? I watch it every week and enjoy watching it. Some of my favourite players play in it. Just because I don't lick its arse constantly doesn't mean I am against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 That's not my intention at all. Conviction in one's views does not equate to a superiority complex. But do you really think the world rates Baines as one of its top left-backs? Go on any neutral forum and ask the question, and see what answer you get. I get that as Everton fans you will have an element of bias towards your players, but... This is all becoming very pedantic. My point was that if Baines has been better than Cole for two years, why is Cole still the best LB in the world? Two years is a long period so superiority over that period would be more than enough to put one player above another. Yakubu had a good 5 months or so. That's totally different. I do agree with you that talent overcomes form, but if Cole has been inferior to someone for a whole two years, talent doesn't matter much does it? course it does...the old sayin form is temporary, class is permanent...cole has proved that this year by performing immensely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 i'd have to agree with this and yeah i would say a lot of it is because he is english...how many english players actually move abroad? and you're sayin utd can't attract the best players in the world still? fuck me..cos they didn't win a cup for one year in a row they are suddenly not able to attract anyone...barca won fuck all too No, I am saying which truly top echelon players have United signed in the last five years? They're signing guys like Young, Berbatov, Anderson etc - the likes of RM and Barca wouldn't give those players a second glance. It has sweet fuck all to do with a trophyless season. The true world stars, your Agueros and Silvas, are joining Man City, not Man United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) course it does...the old sayin form is temporary, class is permanent...cole has proved that this year by performing immensely Indeed. But the way you worded things originally was oxymoronic. After two years though you start to wonder if a player can reach previous heights, especially at Cole's age. Cole has been brilliant in the CL but not that great in the PL, to be fair. Chelsea as a whole have been below par. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I rate Baines highly, but because I don't think he's one of the world's best LBs you guys are acting like I think he's nothing special... There's a world of difference between being a very good player and being one of the best in the world in your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 No, I am saying which truly top echelon players have United signed in the last five years? They're signing guys like Young, Berbatov, Anderson etc - the likes of RM and Barca wouldn't give those players a second glance. It has sweet fuck all to do with a trophyless season. The true world stars, your Agueros and Silvas, are joining Man City, not Man United. i wouldn't class silva as a world star but that's another point for another day...united have bought poor in the last few years..imo it has nothing to do with their lack of attracting big names...utd are still one of the biggest if not the biggest clubs in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, Bayern Munich seem to think so. Bayern probably won't sign him. They have Alaba who can play LB and is a very good young prospect. What's the source for the Bayern rumours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I rate Baines highly, but because I don't think he's one of the world's best LBs you guys are acting like I think he's nothing special... There's a world of difference between being a very good player and being one of the best in the world in your position. not really when the picks are very slim in that position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Bayern probably won't sign him. They have Alaba who can play LB and is a very good young prospect. What's the source for the Bayern rumours? One of the local journalists. He said Bayern had concrete interest in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 i wouldn't class silva as a world star but that's another point for another day...united have bought poor in the last few years..imo it has nothing to do with their lack of attracting big names...utd are still one of the biggest if not the biggest clubs in the world They are one of the biggest clubs in the world, but the very best players in the world have generally not played for them (unless they were British ie Best, Law, Charlton, Scholes etc). The likes of Zidane, Brazilian Ronaldo never showed any interest in coming to United. Even on their fansites they admit they've never bought the absolute cream of the world's footballing talent. That's the point I am making. Within the UK and from smaller clubs in Europe, they attract players, but the absolute best players (usually Latin) tend to join one of the Clasico sides. It's due to money, weather, culture etc. Silva is one of the best players in the world, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 not really when the picks are very slim in that position Fair enough point, as I said there is a paucity of truly 'world-class' LBs around. I just wouldn't put Baines down as one of the top four or five, which tends to be my personal definition of world-class (one of the top four of five in your position). Obviously there are flaws to that but it's a starting point for me. One of the local journalists. He said Bayern had concrete interest in him. For what it is worth, I think Baines could do a job at a Champions League level team. I'm just saying that we can't rate him at that level yet as he's untested at said level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Oh, and again, it's not my intention to be 'pompous' etc. You guys have made me very welcome here and you're all sound. If that's the impression my posts give then I apologise. I simply have strong views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 players in spain get huge tax breaks and as you say there is more of a latin culture and the work permits are more relaxed for south americans there....that isn't united's fault...they also as you said earlier in this thread tend to buy young and for the future..what's up with that? they still win things doing so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 players in spain get huge tax breaks and as you say there is more of a latin culture and the work permits are more relaxed for south americans there....that isn't united's fault...they also as you said earlier in this thread tend to buy young and for the future..what's up with that? they still win things doing so Exactly the points I made... I'm not saying there's anything wrong with how they buy, I never cast aspersions on it at all. I'm simply saying that they don't buy the established world stars the way someone like Real Madrid do. I didn't say that was the wrong policy, I just meant that they'd be more likely to buy a guy who doesn't have a 'world reputation' or 'prodigious young world talent' (like Baines), than Real Madrid would. That's all I am saying, not that it's somehow something to mock them over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I do stick to my guns though that United would lose in a transfer battle over most foreign players to Barcelona and RM. Their fans admit that themselves. That doesn't mean their policy is to be mocked, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Hopefully not as I dont want him to leave. Its the usual because he is at Everton and not at United, Barca, Munich etc tht he isnt classed as world class. I couldnt care less ab out tags. Your so anti premier league its unreal. This is flawed as well. I rate certain players outside of the 'super clubs' as world-class. The fact I don't rate Baines as world-class doesn't mean I think anyone who doesn't play for Barca, Real Madrid, Munich etc can't be world-class. I reckon your own Fellaini could be world-class soon, for example. I'd rate him above the likes of Real's Khedira and Barcelona's Keita and Mascherano. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 i'm sure he wasn't talkin about just you havin that kind of opinion...general opinions in european football are that you have to be at a top club to be rated a top player..not just by you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) i'm sure he wasn't talkin about just you havin that kind of opinion...general opinions in european football are that you have to be at a top club to be rated a top player..not just by you Look, don't say 'not just by you' - because that's not how I view players at all. I rate plenty of players who don't play at the super clubs as world-class. Please don't imply that I don't. Oh, and equally, I rate plenty of players at top clubs (especially Man United) as fucking mediocre. I've been watching football since before the sky shite, I'm not a prawn-sandwich eater. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 you said what he said was flawed because YOU rate players from 'lesser clubs' i was sayin he probably meant the general view is that a player outside the 'big clubs' isn't as good don't assume every post is about just you and that your opinion is like some oracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) you said what he said was flawed because YOU rate players from 'lesser clubs' i was sayin he probably meant the general view is that a player outside the 'big clubs' isn't as good don't assume every post is about just you and that your opinion is like some oracle FFS, the phrase 'not just by you' implies that you (and he) were including me in the people that think that way. Had you said, 'not by you' and omitted the 'just' then I wouldn't have thought you were including me would I? Fucking hell. If you don't want me to take things the wrong way then say exactly what you mean. Where have I EVER claimed my opinion is an 'oracle'? Stop making shit up. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 no i meant the just...he said it to you so i assume he thinks that's how you think...i was sayin it doesn't just mean you..it is a general opinion that people think like that and i'm assuming he meant that and also meant that you think like that...i said what i meant...hence why i put just you in my second post also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 no i meant the just...he said it to you so i assume he thinks that's how you think...i was sayin it doesn't just mean you..it is a general opinion that people think like that and i'm assuming he meant that and also meant that you think like that...i said what i meant...hence why i put just you in my second post also Well, he's fucking wrong and I don't appreciate his implication that because I don't rate Leighton Baines as world-class that I am anti-PL or don't rate players from lesser teams as top players. As long as you don't think I think like that, then that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 he maybe fuckin wrong...i said i assume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 This has actually turned out pathetically. I said I think Baines is a very good player, but not one of the very best LBs in the world, and I've had to endure page after page of attacks for that opinion. You'd think I had said he is shite. Thinking he's a very good player but not the cream of the crop is a perfectly reasonable opinion. Donno why I've had so much crap for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 i wouldn't really call differing opinions attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 also some of the criticism was in response to the snapping the hands off for 15m comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) also some of the criticism was in response to the snapping the hands off for 15m comment Yeah, and I admitted that I shouldn't have said that after I was put right about your financial situation. As for the attacks - I am referring to the claim that because I don't lick the arse of everything in the PL, I must hate it and be against it, and also the insinuation that because I don't think Baines is 'world-class' I obviously don't rate players from outside the super clubs. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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