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EGM - 3rd September 2008

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I hope this puts an end to all this BK won't sell argument

 

At tonights AGM Bill Kenwright said 'I want Everton to have a billionare owner, but its not me. My shares have been for sale from the day I bought them'

 

Clear and comprehensive but no doubt some dope will come along and call the poor guy a liar

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Bloody easy Steve you've seen it at Newcastle today, fan pressure. It is senseless to continually suggest that this person or that company wanted to take us over with out naming names at that time. Kenwright has alreay said we need more money and if he stood in the way of any known capable owner with the funds to invest he be chairman of a morgue. Look at Citeh, the Thai is now chairman/president and that is what would happen to Billy because who ever took over would still need him as a figure head

 

ive not suggested anything other than reasons as to why a hostile takeover of the club isnt possible with the company as it stands.

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ive not suggested anything other than reasons as to why a hostile takeover of the club isnt possible with the company as it stands.

 

Yes Steve and I have answered you mate. Lets hope tonights meeeting leads to healing eh :D

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Louis did u get a proxy?

 

Yeah I was there but had to leave at 11 because I wouldn't have been able to get home. I voted to scrap the exclusivity agreement but wasn't able to stay to hear the result (they had us waiting for 1hr 40mins! - the EGM had finished around 8:30). It cost me £14 to get home because no buses go from County Road to town after 11pm!! and I had to get a cab to get the train to get a cab to get home.

 

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/egm-...n-defeated.html - that's slightly misleading when you consider that the board own vast majority of the shares.

 

It was my first EGM and I can see why people become annoyed because it's very imbalanced especially if you don't agree with what's being said.

 

Robert Elstone carried out a powerpoint presentation which glossed over the questions asked of him. Personally I think he was very evasive on questions and he didn't know the answer to some. He does have the gift of the gab and could sweet talk himself out of some difficult questions.

 

I can see his reasons for finding Kirkby attractive (everything is on a plate ready and Everton just need to stump up the cash) but I don't think it's the most attractive offer available. SteveO says he likes him, for me - the jury is still out on him. He said the club has spent just under £2million on the project so far.

 

He also refused to discuss anything with a numbers whether that was Goodison Park's value or how much he expected Everton to earn in naming rights because of commercial confidentiality yet he had stated he was expecting £6million per year in the Echo a few weeks ago.

 

He said that he has asked Savills (property consultants) and KSS (architects) to look into redeveloping Goodison Park five weeks ago. Personally, I would have preferred for the club to get someone with no agenda (i.e. not employed by Destination Kirkby) to carry this out. So I found their analysis was flawed

 

There was a funny moment when Carter was going on about a shared stadium and he said something like "I asked if they wanted to share a joint". He forgot to add the word stadium, Moyesy was the only person not laughing on the top table.

 

Elstone's presentation was very one sided and misleading in my opinion. He gave three ways that Goodison Park could be redeveloped but ways which are not viable. They were:

 

  • Rebuild Goodison as a 35,000 with a massive bullens road and lose money in short term
  • Rotated and rebuild as a 35,000 seater stadium knocking down houses and lose money in short term
  • Extend footprint, rebuild as a 50,000 stadium which was 230million and lose £x million a year whilst in development.

 

He also said that Kirkby would be a 55,000 capacity stadium at one point which is not true, it's a 50,000.

 

He failed to mention rebuilding Park End with a bigger cantilever stand or rotating the pitch and building the stadium up on a piecemeal basis. He also failed to mention any enabling development (hotel, leisure etc.) until Trevor Skempton (Evertonian architect who is critical of Kirkby) pulled him up on it.

 

Elstone also said that the School and Garage were prohibitive to any redevelopment, Liverpool's Labour group leader Joe Anderson stood up said they weren't prohibitive at all and could easily be worked on. It seems the problem is securing the houses on the street.

 

Bill Kenwright seems like a caricature of what you see on tele - clearly very passionate but is not well informed - I don't think he knew too much about the project. He didn't want to be there. I've never seen him in the flesh before and I actually thought he was bit intimidating when he wanted to be - if somebody said something he didn't agree with he would laugh or scoff at them. He tried not to allow anything bad to be said about the stadium apart from the traffic issues - if someone did say something bad about the stadium he would pull a face like a child sucking on a sour sweet. He went off on a tangent about investment and needing a billionaire when the question was something like "if you had the money would you still settle for Kirkby?" when the answer was clearly "no".

 

The Savills guy was out of his depth.. people openly mocked him about his comments on Scotland Road. One bloke stood up and asked if he was the guy they laughed at last year.. bit harsh.

 

The major problem as I said above is that Savills are not impartial. They have a loyalty to the destination Kirkby project so somebody else should have been invited in to have a go at redeveloping Goodison Park.

 

His reasoning for not following up Scotland Road site was because Bestway didn't pay for a full feasibility study whilst Tesco did. He failed to mention that Tesco were tipped a wink (Kenwright had told Leahy he was interested, Kenwright said he met him after the Man City game a few years ago) and no company would do a full feasibility report etc. on without a nod from the board but it went unchallenged. Kenwright said any company who submits a full feasibility report with costings etc. will be looked at.

 

Someone asked Elstone if the exclusivity agreement was worth it, Elstone said yes. Again, I beg to differ - the way I see it is Everton were the lynch pin to the project and without them there would be no DK so EFC had nothing to lose by not committing to it. Elstone said there is no expiration date but there are clauses - sadly no one asked him what they were.

 

The KSS guy chatted nonsense despite his 25 years in the industry - he said Kirkby would be a similar standard to the City Of Manchester Stadium because Kirkby will cost more (he didn't take into account it was 4 years on and steel prices had risen dramatically!) I think he got off lightly because nobody really asked him any questions. Personally I was under the impression that KSS were only designing the interior and Barr did the architecture but this was never found out.

 

Colin Fitz said that prices (Everton's contribution) based on figures from some Surveyers Institute could rise up to £151million based on recent steel price increases - nobody at all challenged this, which is worrying. Colin's a clever bloke knows what he's talking about.

 

The SDG lady was torn apart on several occasions especially with regards to rail travel (only 3,800 can travel by rail per hour - less than 7% of attendance (clearly not good enough!). She was telling people they should change their travel plans because Kirkby couldn't support it and that Kirkby was a haven for cars.

 

Somebody said to her "I'm from New Brighton, how do you expect me to get home after a night game". "SWIM!" came the reply from the fans. She didn't know what to say and her answer was mumbled, she said something about the club will provide a bus or commission a train run for you if there are any problems.

 

She was adamant that supporters should change the way they travel to the game because Kirkby could not sustain it. Telling people that the new bus stop will be a 12 minute walk from the stadium.

 

Elstone did not know who will pick up the tab for parking. This seriously worries me when the club's CEO doesn't even know what outgoings there are going to be.

 

Tesco will pay for Kirkby railway station improvements and have a £10million grant to pay for traffic infrastructure changes.

 

Philip Green is Kenwright's friend. Seriously he is. NO, he really is. Kenwright was very angry that someone had asked him if Green had any shares in Everton and he also declared that Green would not have any Arcadia stores in Kirkby and is backing the project for non personal gain reasons.

 

Bill Kenwright acknowledged problems with transport plan but insisted the kinks will be ironed out which I suspect is nonsense considering SDG had to revise the plans 4 times prior to submitting the application and it still is very porous.

 

Philip Carter talked about the Kings Dock but Elstone shut him up I think because it wasn't relevant. He was saying that the reason for Kings Dock wasn't the money but infact... we'll never know. It was like the end of the Monty Python's Holy Grail film which was bloody irritating to be honest.

 

Warren Bradley waited a while to ask a question, he put his hand up around three times but Kenwright kept choosing somebody else until people pointed him out. Kenwright said "ah, Warren didn't see you there". He actually bamboozled Kenwright, it was painful to watch. It was like watching a naughty schoolboy try to worm his way out of trouble. He asked Kenwright when did Everton approached LCC to discuss Scotland Road. Kenwright answered a different question. Bradley was booed by a few people (around 10) there because they believe he has put the mockers on the ground move. Kenwright said he considered Bradley a friend because they've spoken more recently.

 

Carter said the site had been looked at and dismissed because Tesco couldn't afford the cross-subsidy on the loop site.

 

Joe Anderson spoke very well. He flat out told the Everton board that the School can go and the garage by the Park End can be moved on. He received a huge applause that lasted around a minute.

 

I still don't know what Jon Woods sounds like or what he does, he never spoke.

 

Some bloke from Kirkby was there telling everyone how it would ruin Kirkby resident's lives etc.- this is an EFC forum so it's not worth going into but put simply the residents are getting a bad deal. He was told to shut up by those who booed Bradley and want the groundmove to go ahead, there was a very clear divide between fans although I would say that a lot more people in the room were not interested in going to Kirkby.

 

Professor Tom Cannon was the only person who spoke in favour of the development on the microphone (along with the board, obviously) but I didn't agree with a lot of what he had to say. He was not that interesting and said nothing I hadn't heard before. He received the loudest boo of the night.

 

Trevor Skempton was invited to meet KSS and Savills to discuss Goodison redevelopment.

 

Kenwright wants to put together a fan group to discuss transport issues with SDG.

 

There was some confusion about future expansion which is no clearer to being resolved. My understanding of it is this. The initial plan is for a 50k seater, it could be expanded to 60k for £25million but it is unlikely as transport can not sustain it. Rather than admitting this, the KSS guy said it can be extended at a later date to 60,000.

 

Overall a disappointment and the outcome of the vote was a farce but expected. I didn't even get a free butty.

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Wow to me some of your comments about BK are telling..he has always given me that sort of impression though if things go his way he's fine but when the pressure is applied he doesnt like it (and frankly this is why he wont sell..its his ego)

 

Kirby should be dead and buried by now..how the hell,honestly now,could we really afford to fund the thing? we had our chance at kings dock when they all but begged us to take the land and we couldnt raise the 30 mill needed then,kirby would surely cost more than that now so really its time to put it to bed tbh.

 

So the board unsurprisingly survive another EGM,but for how much longer after this summers tansfer dealings.

 

I'll say it again City being taken over will move the face of english football over the next 12-14 months or so and we sadly will be left struggling to keep up with pompey and the likes of those teams,for a club that HAS made strides over the last few seasons its a bit of a sickener

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ok lets get rid and just invite another johnson to the helm!!!

 

i think bk will/would sell to the right person but to say hes done a bad job is just well out of order!

 

from near relagation to a near champs league side in such a short space of time and braking the transfer record 4 years on the spin!!!

 

its not bk's fault that billionairs are buying other clubs and making it harder to crack the top 4!!!

It is his fault if he's not actively seeking new owners or investment for us and frankly i see no proof that he is..

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I'm sorry Louis but your report is so 'us against them' that I will wait until I've seen an unbiased report. I note that you must have lost the freely made vote but some how you describe it as a farce, those comments belittle the remainder totally.

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http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/egm-...n-defeated.html - that's slightly misleading when you consider that the board own vast majority of the shares.

 

Why is it misleading? Because the result didn't go as you wanted??

Majority of shareholders (no matter who owns the shares) voted to continue, are you saying they should change the rules of voting?

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Thanks for that Louis.

Jimmy we all know Louis' position on the move so you wouldn't really expect anything other than his personal take on things. If you want an "unbiased" report you'll have a long wait because everyone there (and here) has a viewpoint. Just have to listen to everyone and draw your own conclusions.

Edit...Adam got in before me on that point :) .

 

It is his fault if he's not actively seeking new owners or investment for us and frankly i see no proof that he is..

 

He says he is, he's said it many times. I see no proof that he isn't. I believe him.

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Elstone mentioned £6m a year in the press, but wasn't that in connection with extra revenue raised by ticket sales rather than naming rights? NO WAY should any business put out a figure they expect to receive for naming rights or selling their stadium at this point in time, they are looking for the best price, the best offer, they don't want to go on record with what they would accept before the offers come in.

 

I'll read the reports later but as far as I see it, the club once again outlined specifically what they've been doing, how they've researched all the options and why Kirkby is the best deal, yet some refuse to believe it no matter how many times they get told. As I said a while back, if we redevelop Goodison we'll have to play our matches somewhere else (most likely Anfield) losing us millions in revenue and increasing Liverpool's income stream. If we have to do it, then the club will, but they'd rather move so we can spread our wings and get a site which can accommodate everything we need. Anyway, wait and see what the Echo have to say.

 

edit: also, saying Colin Fitz is a clever bloke hardly means that he's the world's foremost expert on football stadia and how to make Everton a successful business. Robert Elstone is a clever bloke, so is Tom Cannon I assume, more importantly Robert Earl and Kenwright are successful businessmen, whilst Philip Green and Leahy are two of the UKs most successful businessmen - yet instead of listening to these people (who have successful careers making money and running businesses) we are supposed to listen to Colin Fitz because he seems like a clever guy? Has he made as much money as Kenwright, as Earl, as Green, as Leahy? Plus if steel prices do rise, it'll affect the price of rebuilding Goodison, or of any other move as well so what difference does it make - except that we're getting reduced prices on the Kirkby build due to the Tesco contract with the builders?

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Elstone's comments:

 

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/everto...64375-20871677/

 

Robert Elstone, deputy chief executive of Everton FC, said: “We have had some quite extensive research done which is suggesting a value of well in excess of £4m per annum over a 15-year deal."

 

It was Ian Ross who said £6million, Elstone had said £4million - my mistake.

 

Carl, we seem to have diametrically opposed view points on this so there's no point in putting points forward. I've said above that I would like to see someone impartial produce a study on Goodison's redevelopment yet the club have only offered that KSS do it.

 

You should take it for granted that Elstone & the board are intelligent. I added the "clever bloke" bit because he clearly knew what he was talking about and quoted several sources from RICS(Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors) about cost rises, and as I said above nobody challenged; not Elstone, not Kenwright, not KSS, no one. Worrying. Of course it will affect other stadium builds but do we want to be paying that much for a stadium in Kirkby which is basically a town on the outskirts? You seem to think so because it's the only option, I don't - all I would like to see are independent impartial experts suggest a way of redeveloping Goodison because last night Elstone only seemed to talk about non-viable ways of redeveloping despite there being an architect in the room who begs to differ - he's heard it all before, Newcastle United told him St. James Park couldn't be redeveloped, it could.

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I forgot to add.. some Kirkby residents are going to the European court to overturn the Compulsory Purchase Orders which could delay the ground move a further year after the public inquiry should it be passed.

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I forgot to add.. some Kirkby residents are going to the European court to overturn the Compulsory Purchase Orders which could delay the ground move a further year after the public inquiry should it be passed.

Cant say i'm surprised by that either..it wont happen not in the near furture at any rate

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Translated that means you lost

No translated it means another summer like we've just had if as expected the result of the call in doesnt come in a timely manner

 

Do i want the club to go to kirby? no i dont,not becuase of anything against kirby but becuase of tescos involvement..look at the JJB in wigan thats our future right there,some faceless stadium in an faceless industrial park becuase thats what it'll end up being no matter how glamouros the piccys look and that makes me sad.

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No translated it means another summer like we've just had if as expected the result of the call in doesnt come in a timely manner

 

Do i want the club to go to kirby? no i dont,not becuase of anything against kirby but becuase of tescos involvement..look at the JJB in wigan thats our future right there,some faceless stadium in an faceless industrial park becuase thats what it'll end up being no matter how glamouros the piccys look and that makes me sad.

 

So you are saying the residents of Kirkby (come on, let's not forget the k in kirkby) live in a faceless environment?

You cannot compare what Wigan have done to what we propose to do, 2 very different clubs etc

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No translated it means another summer like we've just had if as expected the result of the call in doesnt come in a timely manner

 

Do i want the club to go to kirby? no i dont,not becuase of anything against kirby but becuase of tescos involvement..look at the JJB in wigan thats our future right there,some faceless stadium in an faceless industrial park becuase thats what it'll end up being no matter how glamouros the piccys look and that makes me sad.

 

 

That is old ground Ling, the shareholders voted last night so its a pointless argument mate.

 

Louis I apologise mate, yes your report was very biased, as Mike says it depends on your viewpoint, I should have said I would like to hear another version. That said even Grayson had the courtesy to thank the board for their frankness last night.

 

If you lads are so certain that Kirkby will not get the go ahead why get so upset, just sit back and it won't happen. Our Blue ancestors had the courage to go and build outside the then city boundaries, I still have that spirit of adventure as do the majority of shareholders. Can you lot say at what stage you will get behind the board because if Kirkby is given the green light you'll have to ;)

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I have now read Prentice's piece in the Echo which is pro board hence I can at least now formulate a more balanced opinion.

 

Out of all of it I feel sorry for the Kirkby residents who will lose their homes, homes would also be lost if some of the GP development suggestions went ahead as well. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs unfortunately and I hope they will be suitably compensated financially and accommodation wise.

 

IMO the greatest benefit we all can learn from last night is the fact that the protesters have at least produced more transparency from the board. The anti movers were allowed to ask probing and uncomfortable questions of the club, something they wouldn't get away with at many other clubs. Hopefully Elston can address the woeful marketing of the club and its products, Wyness was guilty big time of ignoring this money stream

 

Once the decision is made ffs lets us all bury any remaining hatchets and move on together because in doing so we will stand a far better chance of attracting the mystery investor, if he/she exists. It is a relief to know that Green is still on board, all the rumours concerning him recalling those loans should have been quashed early on but again the board allowed them to continue.

 

Can any one say if the Wyness resignation was discussed in any way last night, reason why etc

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I have now read Prentice's piece in the Echo which is pro board hence I can at least now formulate a more balanced opinion.

 

Out of all of it I feel sorry for the Kirkby residents who will lose their homes, homes would also be lost if some of the GP development suggestions went ahead as well. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs unfortunately and I hope they will be suitably compensated financially and accommodation wise.

 

IMO the greatest benefit we all can learn from last night is the fact that the protesters have at least produced more transparency from the board. The anti movers were allowed to ask probing and uncomfortable questions of the club, something they wouldn't get away with at many other clubs. Hopefully Elston can address the woeful marketing of the club and its products, Wyness was guilty big time of ignoring this money stream

 

Once the decision is made ffs lets us all bury any remaining hatchets and move on together because in doing so we will stand a far better chance of attracting the mystery investor, if he/she exists. It is a relief to know that Green is still on board, all the rumours concerning him recalling those loans should have been quashed early on but again the board allowed them to continue.

 

Can any one say if the Wyness resignation was discussed in any way last night, reason why etc

Very good points made there Jimmy.

 

As for Wyness, I don't think it will have been raised because the outlined mandate for this EGM was put together before his resegnation and you can only raise and discuss points made in the original mandate. The second proposed EGM however will cover the Wyness issue i it goes ahead.

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I've tidied up this post a bit because there were two conversations going on, I've moved all of last night's EGM to it's own thread because the original thread is about the possibility of another one.

 

Also read this...

 

http://www.evertonbanter.co.uk/2008/09/eve...issues-sho.html

 

This is from the Everton Shareholders Association's secretary James Asquith (nothing to do with KEIOC):

 

My apologies if I missed you, but I didn't see you in the room last night. Consequently, you may be basing your article on incomplete information and/or the reports of others?

 

"For every question there was a logical answer."

 

No there wasn't. At times the board and their 'experts' looked completely lost when asked about what you refer to as "the minutiae of the move". The lady from Steer Davies Greave who was the alleged Transport export was particularly embarrassed and I and many others there actually felt embarrassment on her behalf.

 

The experts were there precisely because everyone knew the minutiae would be examined. Why couldn't they answer the questions?

 

True, Bill proposed a committee to liaise with the board on transport issues, but don't you find that strange? The club have, according to Robert Elstone last night, spent between £1m and £2m on Kirkby over 18 months to 2 years (and that's with most of the professional fees being absorbed by Tesco). Do they really need 8-10 independent fans/shareholders to help them sort out the transport plan now? Going on the performance of some of their experts last night, maybe they do!

 

Oh, and by the way, you may remember that 18 months ago Bill promised to get in touch with architect Trevor Skempton and listen to his alternative plans for Goodison. Trevor is still waiting. I wonder when the transport committee wil be formed and how much input it will have?

 

"For every concern there was an explanation."

 

I may be as guilty as any last night of focusing too much on the minutiae (although being that's one of the reasons the meeting was called, I find it strange you seek to dismiss it). The true problem with that focus, and why I have regrets today, is that it detracted from THE main concerns every informed Evertonian has about this project:

 

1. There is no plan B.

Robert Elstone revealed that the team behind Kirkby had been asked to look at redeveloping Goodison "four or five weeks ago"! I kid you not. Only when they realised an EGM to examine Kirkby was inevitable did they do any serious work on the possibilities of redeveloping Goodison Park.

 

Even then, they asked the team responsible for Kirkby to do the work. Do you think that team wanted to prove Goodison could be redeveloped, or did they want to prove it couldn't?

 

Some of the objections they highlighted to redeveloping Goodison were later blown out of the water by Warren Bradley and Joe Anderson. Principally, the school and houses behind Bullens Road are not an insurmountable problem.

 

There are current educational investment schemes in place which could be used to rebuild the current single story school as a 2/3 story building closer to Walton Lane. There are housing renewal schemes in place which can be used to remove some of the houses. The freehold of the garage behind bullens is owned by the council who can help to persuade the business to relocate.

 

Why have the club not actively pursued these options with the council? This leads on to the second main concern.

 

2. Alternatives have not been fully explored.

Not only has redeveloping Goodison only been looked at seriously since the EGM was called (and possibly with a negative focus at that), if you had been present last night, you would have seen the obfuscation and waffle trotted out to try to persuade us there was no alternative site available.

 

Robert Elstone's presentation included a timeline slide going back to Kirkby Golf Course in 1996. It included "Scotland Road" in 2006. You may remember that when the Scotland Road/Tunnel Loop site was floated in 2007, the club claimed this was the first time it had been brought to their attention - and then swiftly dismissed it (again using the Kirkby development team to do so).

 

I asked if this slide referred to the same site. Mr Elstone handed over to Sir Philip Carter who waffled on for nearly 10 minutes without saying very much at all. I never did find out if it was the same site, and from what we could gather (Sir Philip was not particularly coherent), it seems Tesco, not EFC, were approached about a site on Scotland Road.

 

It was hard to work out whether we were actually ever involved in any discussions, but what did seem clear from Sir Philip's comments, and later ones from Bill, was that the search for a new stadium site has been led by Tesco since Man City away in May 2004 when Sir Terry asked Bill if "there was anything he could do to help".

 

I certainly got the impression that since that time, the search for a new stadium (like almost everything else at Everton) has been outsourced. Tesco have taken the lead and if a site could not provide what they wanted, it wasn't even considered.

 

Finally, you say "Kenwright's response was to say his door is, and always has been open to any new proposal."

 

You may find this re-assuring. I do not. Several times, Bill or Robert Elstone re-iterated that they would listen to anyone who came forward with a viable, deliverable proposal, but they refused point blank to sit down with LCC and other interested parties and actually work towards developing such a proposal themselves.

 

It is this abdication of responsibility for solving the stadium issue which disappoints me most.

 

Instead of taking the lead in a project whose primary beneficiary is Everton Football Club and working to get partners on board who may accrue ancillary benefits, Bill Kenwright, Robert Elstone and the board of Everton FC are sitting in their offices waiting for the likes of Tesco, Bestway, KMBC and LCC to bring projects to them. It seems self-evident to me that, in any such projects, the prime beneficiaries will be those taking the lead.

 

In his presentation last night, Robert Elstone said that Everton have "a great tradition of innovation and quality in stadium design". This is true. Goodison Park was the first purpose built football ground in the country. It was the first to have 2 tier stands on all four sides. It was the first to have a 3 tier stand. It was the first in England with dug-outs. The first with goal nets. The first with under-soil heating.

 

In all of those firsts, Everton Football Club took the lead and showed the rest of football the way forward. Now we sit back and ask not what we can do for ourselves and football, but what others can do for us.

 

How the mighty have fallen.

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Everton Worshipper.. didn't see your above post..

 

I felt it was misleading because it says 97% of shareholders were opposed to the resolution when in fact it was those with 97% of shareholding. It suggests that only 3% of shareholders are against the move.

 

When you consider the board own around 25,000 shares it becomes clear where the votes came from.

 

The club's solicitors refused to reveal the results in terms of individual slips returned. We can only assume because more were in favour of the resolution, had it been the other way around I'm certain, certain that it would have been revealed.

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I've tidied up this post a bit because there were two conversations going on, I've moved all of last night's EGM to it's own thread because the original thread is about the possibility of another one.

 

Also read this...

 

http://www.evertonbanter.co.uk/2008/09/eve...issues-sho.html

 

This is from the Everton Shareholders Association's secretary James Asquith (nothing to do with KEIOC):

 

 

Having read that screed it seems to me that they are the words a a losing cynic. Yes we all know that the club led the way for years with the innovations incorporated into GP and we were proud to do so. The difference between now and then is the high powered media pressure that gets applied from all quarters to people in the hot seats. I'm certain Sir John Moores would never had allowed any of you that type of soap box. Unfortunately if you give some people an inch they will want to take a yard. The board had no need to offer anything conciliatory to anyone, what do they get for doing so yet more silly destructive snide comments from fans who say they care, Those of you taking this action are not the sole owners of the heart of Everton and never think you are.

 

I have called many times for unity but when it gets to a point were people resort to hair splitting, character assassination and down right cussedness that they need to take a close look at themselves and realise that they are tilting at windmills and damaging, possibly permanently the future of our club and I find that hard to take.

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Having read that screed it seems to me that they are the words a a losing cynic. Yes we all know that the club led the way for years with the innovations incorporated into GP and we were proud to do so. The difference between now and then is the high powered media pressure that gets applied from all quarters to people in the hot seats. I'm certain Sir John Moores would never had allowed any of you that type of soap box. Unfortunately if you give some people an inch they will want to take a yard. The board had no need to offer anything conciliatory to anyone, what do they get for doing so yet more silly destructive snide comments from fans who say they care, Those of you taking this action are not the sole owners of the heart of Everton and never think you are.

 

I have called many times for unity but when it gets to a point were people resort to hair splitting, character assassination and down right cussedness that they need to take a close look at themselves and realise that they are tilting at windmills and damaging, possibly permanently the future of our club and I find that hard to take.

I have to say Jimmy that I like a lot of what you say, it's a pity all our fans don't think the way you do. As you say, the board didn't have to do anything conciliatory, or even open up the stadium move to a fan vote, but they did. Even last nights vote was something like 37000 to 600, it wasn't even a contest even without the 25000 owned by the board. The decision has been made, move on and support the club.

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can someone tell me how far kirkby is too the CBD of liverpool and Goodison park...

 

 

and also whats the big drama about moving is it really far away?

 

is it that kirkby is a dump?

 

or is it u want to stay at Goodison

 

 

i really dunno who to support in this one mainly cause most of you hear are decided and are biased

 

 

btw did they talk about the money and the summer of horror?

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Having read that screed it seems to me that they are the words a a losing cynic. Yes we all know that the club led the way for years with the innovations incorporated into GP and we were proud to do so. The difference between now and then is the high powered media pressure that gets applied from all quarters to people in the hot seats. I'm certain Sir John Moores would never had allowed any of you that type of soap box. Unfortunately if you give some people an inch they will want to take a yard. The board had no need to offer anything conciliatory to anyone, what do they get for doing so yet more silly destructive snide comments from fans who say they care, Those of you taking this action are not the sole owners of the heart of Everton and never think you are.

 

I have called many times for unity but when it gets to a point were people resort to hair splitting, character assassination and down right cussedness that they need to take a close look at themselves and realise that they are tilting at windmills and damaging, possibly permanently the future of our club and I find that hard to take.

 

Jim - i respect your opinions, but the fact of the matter is that any shareholders of any company have the right to do exactly what has been done by the shareholders, not by the clubs fans, by the people who own the club. Moores would have had to give this sort of soap box. take a quick look at company law.

 

a little info here http://moneyterms.co.uk/egm/

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That is old ground Ling, the shareholders voted last night so its a pointless argument mate.

 

Louis I apologise mate, yes your report was very biased, as Mike says it depends on your viewpoint, I should have said I would like to hear another version. That said even Grayson had the courtesy to thank the board for their frankness last night.

 

If you lads are so certain that Kirkby will not get the go ahead why get so upset, just sit back and it won't happen. Our Blue ancestors had the courage to go and build outside the then city boundaries, I still have that spirit of adventure as do the majority of shareholders. Can you lot say at what stage you will get behind the board because if Kirkby is given the green light you'll have to ;)

All im wondering honestly is where evertons share of the cash will come from :huh:

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can someone tell me how far kirkby is too the CBD of liverpool and Goodison park...

It's 7 miles from Kirkby to Old Hall Street (which is what I would class as the CBD)

 

and also whats the big drama about moving is it really far away?

 

It's 4 miles from Goodison Park but it's to the outskirts of Merseyside and the site is relatively remote. Access to the site by 50,000 fans is difficult. One example is that the local rail link can only support 3,900 people per hour (that's 6 carriages every 15 minutes) or 7% of fans.

 

is it that kirkby is a dump?

Is that you Roger Philips? (local radio DJ said on air that "Kirkby is a dump" ;) It's not a relevance really.. but it would factor in some fans decisions (not mine).

 

or is it u want to stay at Goodison

If Everton do locate I would prefer them to locate nearer the city centre i.e. the road network hub/public transport hub/near the CBD. I do support a Goodison redevelopment and a groundshare as well.

 

i really dunno who to support in this one mainly cause most of you hear are decided and are biased

It's going to stay that way too sadly, people have nailed their colours to the masses. I have defected from favouring Kirkby to opposing it until I did some further reading but it's up to people to make their own mind up.

 

btw did they talk about the money and the summer of horror?

No because it was off the agenda, shareholders are calling for non-stadium issues to be discussed at another EGM which is possibly likely to go ahead in October/November.

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It's 4 miles from Goodison Park but it's to the outskirts of Merseyside and the site is relatively remote. Access to the site by 50,000 fans is difficult. One example is that the local rail link can only support 3,900 people per hour (that's 6 carriages every 15 minutes) or 7% of fans.

 

Louis, has there ever been a study to see what % of fans currently use the train services to travel to Goodison (or close enough to walk)?

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Here's Howard Kendall's take on the ground move and the lack of respect for Kenwright - which I totally agree with. After hearing some of BK's comments the other night it sounds like he's pretty much ready to throw the towel in, no doubt due to all the sniping of some fans who keep taking digs every chance they get. I think Everton fans will only realise how good Kenwright is, once he's gone.

 

Bill Kenwright should get more creditSep 5 2008

 

by Howard Kendall, Liverpool Echo

 

 

FOOTBALL is no longer the game it used to be and the antics at a couple of clubs this week have proved that once again.

 

Alan Curbishley felt compelled to resign on Wednesday after West Ham’s board had allegedly meddled in his transfer dealings, while Newcastle have – not for the first time – descended into mayhem.

 

Throw on top of that the fact that nobody seems to be happy with what is happening across Stanley Park and it’s clear to see that new owners of football clubs are not all that they are cracked up to be.

 

Yet, at Goodison Park, we have a chairman who loves Everton to his core – just as David Moores loves Liverpool – and does everything that he possibly can to improve things, giving his total support to the manager.

 

He doesn’t make phoney comments. Everything Bill says comes from the heart yet with the vast majority of supporters, he gets no credit at all, not even in a week when he has just sanctioned another record breaking transfer.

 

Of course, the issue of going to Kirkby is a thorny one but I think most sensible people would agree after Wednesday night’s EGM that we have got to move away now; leaving Goodison is clearly the only possibility.

 

Getting a successful team together, though, is just as important and I don’t think David Moyes would mind me saying he is backed by one of the game’s most loyal and understanding chairmen.

 

I was never keen on having a fan in charge, as they tend to let their hearts rule their heads.

 

Could you imagine some of the decisions that would be made on Monday morning if a section of the Gwladys Street ran the club?

 

Supporters tend to make knee-jerk reactions but Bill has been pragmatic and found the happy medium between expectation and realisation – which is more than can be said for thepeople in charge of some of Everton’s Premier League rivals.

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Jim - i respect your opinions, but the fact of the matter is that any shareholders of any company have the right to do exactly what has been done by the shareholders, not by the clubs fans, by the people who own the club. Moores would have had to give this sort of soap box. take a quick look at company law.

 

a little info here http://moneyterms.co.uk/egm/

 

Steve it is a joy to argue sensibly which we do mate.

 

My comments about Moores were meant to highlight the difference in approach to what we have now, partly because Billy is not a rich man he needs as many fans behind him as he can get.

 

Having said that, if Moyes walks to Newcastle, which I don't think will happen, just watch the shit hit the fan then and I know which direction it will be going in mate. We should all be applauding Kenwright for the commitment he shows Moyes even though he/we can't afford it.

 

As I said earlier hopefull this new guy will repair some of the damage Wyness has done and get some financial streams unblocked

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Could you imagine some of the decisions that would be made on Monday morning if a section of the Gwladys Street ran the club?

 

Supporters tend to make knee-jerk reactions but Bill has been pragmatic and found the happy medium between expectation and realisation – which is more than can be said for thepeople in charge of some of Everton’s Premier League rivals.

 

Last 2 paragraphs sum it up nicely.

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Here's Howard Kendall's take on the ground move and the lack of respect for Kenwright - which I totally agree with. After hearing some of BK's comments the other night it sounds like he's pretty much ready to throw the towel in, no doubt due to all the sniping of some fans who keep taking digs every chance they get. I think Everton fans will only realise how good Kenwright is, once he's gone.

 

Bill Kenwright should get more creditSep 5 2008

 

by Howard Kendall, Liverpool Echo

 

 

FOOTBALL is no longer the game it used to be and the antics at a couple of clubs this week have proved that once again.

 

Alan Curbishley felt compelled to resign on Wednesday after West Ham’s board had allegedly meddled in his transfer dealings, while Newcastle have – not for the first time – descended into mayhem.

 

Throw on top of that the fact that nobody seems to be happy with what is happening across Stanley Park and it’s clear to see that new owners of football clubs are not all that they are cracked up to be.

 

Yet, at Goodison Park, we have a chairman who loves Everton to his core – just as David Moores loves Liverpool – and does everything that he possibly can to improve things, giving his total support to the manager.

 

He doesn’t make phoney comments. Everything Bill says comes from the heart yet with the vast majority of supporters, he gets no credit at all, not even in a week when he has just sanctioned another record breaking transfer.

 

Of course, the issue of going to Kirkby is a thorny one but I think most sensible people would agree after Wednesday night’s EGM that we have got to move away now; leaving Goodison is clearly the only possibility.

 

Getting a successful team together, though, is just as important and I don’t think David Moyes would mind me saying he is backed by one of the game’s most loyal and understanding chairmen.

 

I was never keen on having a fan in charge, as they tend to let their hearts rule their heads.

 

Could you imagine some of the decisions that would be made on Monday morning if a section of the Gwladys Street ran the club?

 

Supporters tend to make knee-jerk reactions but Bill has been pragmatic and found the happy medium between expectation and realisation – which is more than can be said for thepeople in charge of some of Everton’s Premier League rivals.

 

Well said mate

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Louis, has there ever been a study to see what % of fans currently use the train services to travel to Goodison (or close enough to walk)?

 

1993 - Merseytravel did a Stadia Access study

1996 - JMP did one

2007 - evertonfc.com online survey and results were forwarded to Knowsley Council

 

http://www.knowsley.gov.uk/resources/22507..._1TAVolume3.pdf Page 49

 

Kendall is entitled to his opinion, no disrespect to him but he's not an expert in the relevent fields (architect, civil engineer etc.), I fear he has simply read what was in the Echo and made his judgement on that).

 

As I said with the EGM, someone is typing up minutes so people will be able to read what really happened and in what context.

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In the document it states in 2003 that 12% of the fans that were questioned used the train to get to Goodison.

 

In the Kirkby environment if the max capacity from Goodison is going to the game, 12% represents approx 4,800 fans. If the local rail link can only sustain 3,900 fans per hour then the shotrfall is not as bad as is being made out.

Granted I do not know all the facts nor am I a transportation infrastructure specialist but I still believe figures like the train capacity of Kirkby are being purposely degraded to add to the argument against Kirkby.

 

Anyway, I am always interested to read more and more information from both sides of the argument...

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In the document it states in 2003 that 12% of the fans that were questioned used the train to get to Goodison.

 

In the Kirkby environment if the max capacity from Goodison is going to the game, 12% represents approx 4,800 fans. If the local rail link can only sustain 3,900 fans per hour then the shotrfall is not as bad as is being made out.

Granted I do not know all the facts nor am I a transportation infrastructure specialist but I still believe figures like the train capacity of Kirkby are being purposely degraded to add to the argument against Kirkby.

 

Anyway, I am always interested to read more and more information from both sides of the argument...

 

I can only imagine that the main issue with the train's lack of capacity is that currently a huge number of fans are able to walk to the ground. In a move to Kirkby a good number of those fans will be added to those already taking the train.

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Everton Worshipper, I don't think your taking into account that that it's 1,000 people less per hour (that's 20% less) with a stadium capacity 10,000 seats larger which is pushing more people onto buses and park and ride sites which the club are paying for.

 

Chicagoblue, At present there are 744 season ticket holders who are within a 40 minute walking distance from the Kirkby stadium according to the report. (page 166).

 

The report also says 4% of fans walk to Goodison Park (4% of Goodison Park capacity is 1622, 4% of this seasons average home attendance is 1461)

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Steve it is a joy to argue sensibly which we do mate.

 

My comments about Moores were meant to highlight the difference in approach to what we have now, partly because Billy is not a rich man he needs as many fans behind him as he can get.

 

Having said that, if Moyes walks to Newcastle, which I don't think will happen, just watch the shit hit the fan then and I know which direction it will be going in mate. We should all be applauding Kenwright for the commitment he shows Moyes even though he/we can't afford it.

 

As I said earlier hopefull this new guy will repair some of the damage Wyness has done and get some financial streams unblocked

 

i agree jim, i do enjoy our debates. a lot of people on here like to get personal and insulting.

i do hold respect of BK as an evertonian, but to me a lot of things just dont add up. if only the moores family were still backing everton.

i have faith in Elstone, hopefully he will sort things out. id like them to at least break the exclusivity agreement.

id like to see them have a public debate with LCC personally, put LCC on the spot and ask them out right if they want to keep us in liverpool what are they going to do for us. i know Joe Anderson will break his neck for the club if he gets in

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i agree jim, i do enjoy our debates. a lot of people on here like to get personal and insulting.

i do hold respect of BK as an evertonian, but to me a lot of things just dont add up. if only the moores family were still backing everton.

i have faith in Elstone, hopefully he will sort things out. id like them to at least break the exclusivity agreement.

id like to see them have a public debate with LCC personally, put LCC on the spot and ask them out right if they want to keep us in liverpool what are they going to do for us. i know Joe Anderson will break his neck for the club if he gets in

 

TBH Steve even the Moores family aren't rich enough now, that is how sad things are mate <_<

 

One comment of mine meant in humourous fashion was greeted with abuse this morning, when people resort to abuse it is simply a display of a low IQ mate demeaning themselves and the forum

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i know, i dont agree with the personal stuff. ive called a few people names myself as sometimes we all go off on one. but its not really needed.

 

i heard a rumour bill gates his buying efc as a birthday present for one of his sons :lol: we'll be fine then

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i know, i dont agree with the personal stuff. ive called a few people names myself as sometimes we all go off on one. but its not really needed.

 

i heard a rumour bill gates his buying efc as a birthday present for one of his sons :lol: we'll be fine then

 

What another Bill :lol::lol::lol:

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