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Individually we have one of the best defence in the league.Yobo,,,Lescott are one of the best you can find in the league.If you can recall, many of us were excited as we believed this defence would be so great that we will let in much lesser goals then last season.Instead, we are letting in much more!! So what causes this? What is the difference?? STUBBS!! yep u heard it right! It's Alan Stubbs who is the difference. When he plays, thought he is not pacy, he leads our defence!! He directs the defender and he communicates with the rest!! He has no reservation in letting his fellow defenders know about how he feels!!!

 

But now, if you see YOBO and LESCOTT, they not do communicate as much as stubbs does and nor do they direct players like Hibbert when he fails to perform...they silently defends till we conceed!!

 

Do you agree? I strongly believe that STUBBS and his experience is the key difference between last years defence and this years!

 

Comments?

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Individually we have one of the best defence in the league.Yobo,,,Lescott are one of the best you can find in the league.If you can recall, many of us were excited as we believed this defence would be so great that we will let in much lesser goals then last season.Instead, we are letting in much more!! So what causes this? What is the difference?? STUBBS!! yep u heard it right! It's Alan Stubbs who is the difference. When he plays, thought he is not pacy, he leads our defence!! He directs the defender and he communicates with the rest!! He has no reservation in letting his fellow defenders know about how he feels!!!

 

But now, if you see YOBO and LESCOTT, they not do communicate as much as stubbs does and nor do they direct players like Hibbert when he fails to perform...they silently defends till we conceed!!

 

Do you agree? I strongly believe that STUBBS and his experience is the key difference between last years defence and this years!

 

Comments?

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head - Yobo and Lesscot both very good players have not yet gelled as a partnership, so it not to say they are poor players. With Stubbs at the back with Yobo - Basically as the Senior player he made the defensive unit HIS responsibility, and Yobo has obviusly been happy to slot in so to say. Now it time for Yobo to take up the senior mantle and run the defensive unit himself - or it he is not the type to boss then Lesscot will have to be come the 'senior' partner for want of a better fraise

 

I aslo don't think having a settled central midfeild in front of them helps either.

 

We have got very good defensive players so I see these recent poor performances as more of a leaning curve rather that a more deep rooted lack of quality players, which to me would be a much bigger problem.

 

The lescott -Yobo partnership could last the best part of 10 years, so a few months getting them gelled is a small price over the long term.

 

Yes, its is very frustrating as it is putting big pressure on the forward players as we are needing at least 3 goals to get a win or a draw. 2 goals away to Newcastle should have yeilded at least a point.

 

But I truly beleive it is a short term problem and before the turn of the new year we will be back to being a 'stingy' defence.

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nigel martyn has said that yobo doesnt talk much/enough. i hope he steps up and sorts it out, the defence for nigeria is his resonsibility as captain, he needs to do it for the blues. the potential is there, just needs to be nurtured through asap

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I stopped reading as soon as you said Stubbs. Go and watch the second leg of the Kharkiv game, he was horrendous. We do have defensive problems, but theyre still there when Stubbs plays.

Agreed lad, Our midfield against Metalist wer to far away from the defense to act as defensive help and not only that but to far to ask for the fucking ball so we hoofed it up, it always happens. Everton bore me so much now even more than when we played 451.

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True Stubbs has an old head, which is very handy at central defence and he's not afraid to tell people what to do.

A team defends from the forward line back!!....right through midfield back to the goalkeeper!

That's to say if your forwards can't hold the ball, create and generally keep the oponents busy then the balls on it's way back down your end...of course only if they can break through your highly drilled defencive midfield players....MMmmm bit of a problem then.At the moment the WHOLE team aren't doing much defending!

 

Hibbert, Yobo, Lescott, Baines and Howard are as good on their day as most and better than a lot, once midfield gets sorted that will help...and the right forward line!

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it's all well and good having a good defence, but when you have a pile of lightweight shit infront of it, its going to be hardwork. our midfield is appauling

 

Yep!......That's kinda what I was trying to say!

 

 

Arteta!...Our most creative player, AND does have a go at the odd tackle.

Pienaar!....Promising, will have a go but better going forward like Arteta.

Carsley!...In the past could do a job in midfield....perhaps on his day he still can.

Neville!....MMmm Neville!....not really what you want in midfield.

Jagielka!....Struggling like hell to make an impact in midfield.

Osman!.....Better going forward.

 

Cahill!.....(injured)

Gravo!....(injured)

 

Throw in if you want McFadden and VDM!

 

Not too much to trouble an attack minded strong midfield.My hope would be with a fit AJ, Vaughan, Cahill and with Yakubu getting stuck in...plus!Jagielka and Pienaar settling and a new midfielder in January....and Arteta getting back to business....THEN our defence should be able to get on with THIER jobs.

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it's all well and good having a good defence, but when you have a pile of lightweight shit infront of it, its going to be hardwork. our midfield is appauling

Its not that are midfield are shit, even though I like davey moyes, he hasnt got a clue about 4 4 2. the 2 central midfielders should ask for the ball and keep the ball moving along the floor, like most decent teams do. City, Tottenham, Newcaslte and the big4. they all play a 4 4 2 most of the time and play keep ball, this is something we have never done as a team whilst moyes has been in charge. Its up to the central midfielders to boss the game, we cant do that because our 2 central midfielders can't play a 20 yard pass to feet!! When Tommy returns and we get a decent enough center midfielder then we will be able to do this, and maybe win deservedly instead of getting hammered and scoring lucky goals.

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it's all well and good having a good defence, but when you have a pile of lightweight shit infront of it, its going to be hardwork. our midfield is appauling

 

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

The fact of the matter is when we trot out Carsley/Jags, Neville, Hibbert, Lescott, Yobo/Stubbs, Baines we basically just put 6 defenders on the field. Combine that with McFadden and Yakubu, Strikers who need excellent service to be used efficiently. Does Moyes see the problem? That combination of 8 players gives us no chance of having a passing game in the center of the field which will cause teams to push up onto our half of the field. We are basically reduced to wing play (Arteta, Baines, Lescott, potentially Pienaar) and corner kicks for our goals, while teams run right down the center.

 

I honestly think the only way we will see more attacking flair/less stress on the defense is when Cahill comes back. Only then will Moyes drop one of his defensive players from the lineup in favor of someone who can score.

 

Here are a couple rules I wish we generally followed:

 

If Stubbs is on the field, don't have Carsley in front of him in the midfield (their lack of speed is woeful together)

 

Only when Neville and Baines are our LB and RB is it acceptable to put *1* defensive mid in the middle (If Hibbert is in form than he could substitute for Neville; the whole point is both backs could deliver a cross).

 

Under no circumstances should Carsley, Neville, and Jags all be on the field out the same time. That gives up too much offense.

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

The fact of the matter is when we trot out Carsley/Jags, Neville, Hibbert, Lescott, Yobo/Stubbs, Baines we basically just put 6 defenders on the field. Combine that with McFadden and Yakubu, Strikers who need excellent service to be used efficiently. Does Moyes see the problem? That combination of 8 players gives us no chance of having a passing game in the center of the field which will cause teams to push up onto our half of the field. We are basically reduced to wing play (Arteta, Baines, Lescott, potentially Pienaar) and corner kicks for our goals, while teams run right down the center.

 

I honestly think the only way we will see more attacking flair/less stress on the defense is when Cahill comes back. Only then will Moyes drop one of his defensive players from the lineup in favor of someone who can score.

 

Here are a couple rules I wish we generally followed:

 

If Stubbs is on the field, don't have Carsley in front of him in the midfield (their lack of speed is woeful together)

 

Only when Neville and Baines are our LB and RB is it acceptable to put *1* defensive mid in the middle (If Hibbert is in form than he could substitute for Neville; the whole point is both backs could deliver a cross).

Under no circumstances should Carsley, Neville, and Jags all be on the field out the same time. That gives up too much offense.

Yep it does.

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Jags best position is right back but neville plays there when he's not in midfield, Jags might have to wait until Joey goes to Africa before he can break into the team, and then it will be at centre half.

The way Joey's been playing lately he might not get back in.

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This thread is justifiably centred on the shocking defensive displays this season. I have seen schoolboys defend with more discipline and guile. I think the problems seem to be a confusion of what system they should be playing. I don't know what has been happening on the trianing ground, but nobody seems to be comfortable defending and they are all over the place. This is in stark contrast to the way we played last season. Its' got to be back to basics for me, and until the defense sorts itself out, and that includes the goal hanging midfield at present, we are not going to meet our potential this season.

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I too think Jags is a right back.

 

He's got an England cap there for a start.

 

Our best team (not necessarily best players)is:

 

 

Howard

Jags Yobo Lescott Baines

Arteta Carsley Graveson Pienar

AJ Vaughan

 

It was a close call on Tommy vs Timmy though - but its a team game.

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Its not that are midfield are shit, even though I like davey moyes, he hasnt got a clue about 4 4 2. the 2 central midfielders should ask for the ball and keep the ball moving along the floor, like most decent teams do. City, Tottenham, Newcaslte and the big4. they all play a 4 4 2 most of the time and play keep ball, this is something we have never done as a team whilst moyes has been in charge. Its up to the central midfielders to boss the game, we cant do that because our 2 central midfielders can't play a 20 yard pass to feet!! When Tommy returns and we get a decent enough center midfielder then we will be able to do this, and maybe win deservedly instead of getting hammered and scoring lucky goals.

 

 

isn't it? arteta...then what?

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