MC11

You get side tracked into talking bollocks. It's opinion at the end of the day.

The Bold: clutching at straws...pot kettle? Please come back with the difference of points below the top 10 compared to last season. Bet it looked different down there.

For you yes, Gibson was the sitter. By those stats it looks as though McCarthy is trying to be a box to box midfielder but he just doesn't have the makeup yet.

Gibson was described as half the player of McCarthy. There's thing with those stats you can't see. For example how many of those passes of McCarthys have been forward passes rather than simple 2 yard ones? Also takes into account McCarthy is rather toothless infront of goal with that many shots. Because you left it out I'd presume Gibsons passing range is better than Mccarthys and doesn't suit you agenda. Also in terms of chances created and shots. Gibson was our deep midfielder last season. It was usually osman who partnered him. This season It's Barry in that role.

Haf ignores my post.

That was a great night of football? No? Goodison not bouncing?

Describe something that's made McCarthy look fantastic?

What about our first game of the season when we played United off the park?

Don't agree with the bold tbh. Gibson is a fantastic midfielder. Proved last season.

We need a lot better "squad" players. I also think there is a bigger gulf in class of teams below the top 9. It would be interesting to check difference in points this season in the bottom half of the table. Also I'm sure Moyes attracted a lot more to Goodison in his first season. It's called a new era.

I'm not changing my angles. We will always be same old Everton. We aren't a better side under Martinez like the media will have you believe. We are just more easy on the eye (better to watch).

That sounds very familiar.

It will never be a fair comparison because Martinez inherited a top 6 side full of internationals. Moyes inherited relegation fodder and built from scratch. To be quite honest I'm bored of people saying we are doing "better" under Martinez. Quite clearly we aren't. The only thing that is better is the brand football and without financial input I can't see us doing better than Moyes ever did in the league. One thing I do think is Martinez will get that elusive trophy at some point. That's down to him being seemingly fearless in attack. It's not picking it apart it's actually looking at the facts and realising we actually aren't yet ready to go to the next level and I've also witnessed shit performances this season too. The stats also show we aren't creating as many chances as we were under Moyes (that's with all this wonderful football). They show we are completing slightly more passes and that's about it.

I personslly don't think Gibson would get the nod over Barry and McCarthy because McCarthy is obviously part of Martinez's bigger picture and Barry is a very very important cog. That's not to say I don't think he should get in - I do. The reference to Gerrard was to show that there are players operating in the same formation, who can do two jobs. Rather than having two "water carriers". Gerrard isn't even half the player he was and is still performing well above McCarthy, McCarthy hasn't half the assists or goals. But yes I agree it was an unfair comparison aimed at proving a point rather than judging player like for like.

Here's the stats from Squawaka last season and this season. The season has not ended but there's not many differences to be fair. The chances created is below last season on average though.

All Martinez has changed is possession based and building play from the back four. I'd love to see the stats on chances created to last season, because up front it really has been a similar scenario. Under Moyes we really did play some decent stuff having Fellaini in the side did not help at all in terms of build up play. Moyes was cautious because he knew what he had. He was limited in areas. Let's get one thing straight. I believe in Martinez philosophy - it's the way to go. But I think he's going to struggle to go beyond without real hard investment into his squad. Martinez also has a much better squad at his disposal IMO.

Gibson would struggle to get in because of Martinez preference for McCarthy. That's good enough for me. But Gibson is a very very useful player he proved that last season when we were crying out for him to be back in the side. He's injury prone. If he wasn't I have no doubts he'd still be at United.

You're shying away from the business end again aren't you. Points cup runs, where has he trumped last season (so far)? He's got every chance to but it's going to be tough. Capital One Cup: Both 3rd round knockouts. Fa Cup: At the quarter final stage where we went out last season. Against a top side away from home, where we played the best we have all season and came out with a draw. That's a big ask IMO. League Position: Absolute similarities to how it went last season. Don't get me wrong, I like his positivity it's refreshing but Moyes was a realist. It's alright talking the talk but doing it is a whole different matter. Of late we haven't took anywhere near enough points.

And Gibson was quite easily our most influential midfielder last season. Coleman has been player of the season hands down.

Here here behave. Of course the proper judgement comes at the end of the season. But right now we are "Same old Everton" we've dropped off the pace - just like last season. Until that changes we are on a level playing field in terms of position and the cup run. If you want to really get into it, tell me how he's done a better job than Moyes so far. Forget the football, let's talk about the business end of things. League position and cup runs.....

I personally would like to see Gibson and Barry together when he is back. Just to see how that works. Gibson seems to have an eye for a forward pass and last season was the one who made us tick

Just as a comparison. Gerrard plays in the position that McCarthy plays. But he has two sides to his game. He can sit and go forward, which allows His partner to sit deep when Liverpool attack. Lampard and Ramires do similar jobs at Chelsea. Although a much higher calibre of player, Gerrard has 7 goals and 9 assists. The point I'm getting at is there are players out there who can swop defending for attacking dependant on the sway of the game. In McCarthy and Barry they can't really do that.

People keep referring to loan sitters I.e Keane and Carsley (The makelele role) which was one mans job. In the new era we find two sitting midfielders. If your four attacking players aren't chipping in with goals and assists you are lacking that additional central midfielder who can offer you the odd goal.

There is two water carriers in this team though isn't there???? And he's not as good as Barry

No it's my opinion on him. No cutting edge. We already have the exact same player in Barry. Don't get me wrong he's neat and tidy and is a good footballer. If he had a goal in him though he'd be very very good. The problem I have is that Barry is more important in there and they are both cut from the same cloth in terms of positioning. For that reason alone I think we lack a goalscoring central midfielder.