Elston Gunnn

Weren't Monk and Martinez teammates for a few years and sort of friends these days? Sounds like Monk has adopted Roberto's fuzzy positivity when his team is outplayed. Not only didn't the Swans "more than match" Everton, they were lucky not to lose 2-0. But our inability to finish still means a lost 2 points. We - at least I - probably won't dwell on those matches when we were lucky to pick up points. But I suspect that at the end of this season, this will turn out to be one of several lost opportunities to finish a spot or two higher than wherever we end up in the table. This draw promises to irritate all the way to May. I'll temporarily forget it if we're in second on October 26.

Obviously frustrating, our inability to finish 4-5 decent chances, maybe more. More frustrating is Roberto not using Mirallas earlier, and preferably for Lukaku, or even an exhausted Naismith.

How many matches does Mirallas miss? Is he eligible for Reading match?

Roberto sure likes to save his subs. For Reading?

Like to see Mirallas on for Lukaku.

I'm one of the louts who's been critical of Barkley's insufficiently developed football brain. I thought he had a strong game yesterday, not perfect, but strong nevertheless. Not just in the sense of his usual, impressive physical abilities, but also in many of his decisions in the flow of the match. I'm all for his starting virtually every match. If he plays the way he played yesterday, I will have to concede the obvious: either I was simply wrong, or he's learning fast to see and feel the game intuitively.

Yes, that's CP @ Goodison on Dec. 5. Ten weeks away would make it Villa @ Goodison. Fully fit by Villa, match fit by Palace. Fully match fit by Boxing Day, 15 weeks. Piece of cake, Bob's your uncle, give us a biscuit.

Well, you've done more than try; you've succeeded. Not in convincing me, yet, though one offhand remark just might be a key to our very different perspectives. It is possible, even likely, that you and others who "go to the match" see things -- player strengths and weaknesses -- that those of us who only see the games on TV miss. We know that some on TT are more frustrated with Barkley than are others, and that frustration is frequently expressed in terms of his missing "football brain." So, are Barkley's "football brain" critics mostly those who never see him in person, whereas those who see him at the matches literally see a different Barkley, a more consistent Barkley, etc.? As for my criticism of what I see -- which, as above, may be in important ways fundamentally different from what you see -- as his "instantaneous intuition" failures, that phrase is only my attempt to specify what I mean as his "football brain" deficiency. Similarly, when I wonder whether he "understands the game," I am going by my own experience of playing different sports and regularly noticing physically gifted players who consistently made poor decisions because they had a weak intuitive understanding, a poor "feel," for the flow of the action, the rhythms of teammates' and opponents' movements, that sort of thing. To be clear, however, I absolutely do agree that Barkley should play and usually start, preferably in the middle of the pitch, clearly in front of the DCM(s) but not fully forward, a sort of "withdrawn ACM." I look forward to his improved decision-making, which, as you say, should improve with playing time experience. Even if I'm right that his intuitive feel is so far poorly developed, I concede it can improve. But to return to my curiosity about what TV viewers might miss, that, too, could be a matter of "feel" for the rhythms of the match. So I'd like to hear some opinions about how much of any match one just cannot fully see, and therefore understand, if you're not on site.

Hmmm, "not a driving type player"? Isn't he just that? He is, as you say, calm on the ball, almost always preferring to drive forward with the ball, pushing off opponents with strength and balance, looking to blast away as near the top of the box as possible.

I agree that it's his brain. But I mean something different: lack of pitch awareness and intuitive understanding of what to do, when and to whom to pass, etc. I've played sports all my life, as I'm sure most/all of you have done. I guess most players, no matter their physical talents, have an average intuitive understanding. Some are outstanding in this regard, making up in "smarts" what they lack in physical prowess. Barry is such an example; but now his pace has so much deteriorated that his great pitch sense only partially justifies his minutes. Barkley doesn't appear to be able quickly -- instantaneous intuition -- to assess his and teammates' position, movement, expectations. This is so fundamental to an attacking mid that in some important sense, Barkley doesn't understand the game. Or at least the game he needs to play to be consistently effective, as opposed to intermittently brilliant. If he doesn't believe in himself, perhaps it's because he correctly intuits that his football intuition is poor. And cannot be easily "learned."

I'm unwilling just yet to advocate getting rid of either Besic or McCarthy. I'm ok -- this season -- sticking with 3 DCM's in the squad, as long as RM does some rotating, as surely (surely) he will if we last in the League and FA cups awhile. I trust that RM actually, really does intend to "bring Besic along." Ok, then do it, some. I guess RM's attachment to 2 DCMs must be a function of the plan for Coleman and Baines -- both, a lot -- to get forward. Now even under that plan, I'd prefer one DCM, even, heaven forgive me for these words, if that single DCM must very occasionally be Barry. But my preference for a single DCM is itself a function of my (and many others') preference for Barkley to play (full stop) and play middle of the action, not way forward like a 10. As to our missing 10, I wouldn't mind hearing your and others' comments on Deulofeu in that role for this season. I do think Lennon is the better choice RW, as he'll track back much more willingly and effectively than Deulofeu. As for Mirallas tracking back on the left, cross fingers, pray, and cuss. Can Deulofeu be our 10? Is it obviously worth a try?

I can't remember, but I guess Roberto's the one who first saw in him a DM? In any case, the BiH manager seems also to have moved him permanently to DM. Carefully intending to make no skills-comparison, I'd say positionally he was used in BiH's 2 recent Euro qualifiers as a "Pirlo," deep-lying, play and pass from centre of pitch in front of defenders, pushing forward with controlled dribbling.

I haven't seen him play enough to decide whether he has enough in him. But he looks a very good dribbler, especially in tight situations where he's required to pivot away from defender. Good passer, some effective long passes. Thinking of an eventual pairing of him with McCarthy -- which may or may not ever happen -- he seems both the more able to play deep and hit it long a la Barry, and the more capable of going forward as skillful dribbler. EvertonUSA1 said upthread that Besic and McCarthy too often ran around like headless chickens, and I'd have to agree neither seems as adept at anticipation as we'd prefer.

I could have posted this thought in any of the Coleman, McCarthy, or McGeady threads, but this one will do. I don't know how much interest there is in EURO 2016 beyond the England team, and the Everton players on it. But I'm interested in the entire competition, and just now in the battle to make the playoff round in Group D between Ireland and Scotland. This has an Everton storyline, as it pits Naismith's hopes against those of the Everton Irish contingent. I'll guess Martinez takes Naismith's side, as Roberto's wife is a Scot. Although today's results make it appear that Scotland is nearly eliminated, I wonder. For Scotland, 4 points behind Ireland, have much the easier 2 matches remaining. They will surely take 3 points from their away match (Oct. 13) at Gibraltar, giving them 14 to Ireland's current total of 15. So if Scotland defeat Poland at Hampden Park on Oct. 8, and Ireland draw with or lose to Germany that match day, then Ireland would have to take points away to Poland on the final match day. Although It's still mathematically possible for Ireland to top the group, and while Scotland's only hope is third place and the playoff round, Scotland's prospects are not quite desperate, nor Ireland's safe. Naismith might still beat his Irish teammates. It would help, of course, if Naismith played and scored v. Poland.

BiH still have chance to qualify for Euro playoff round, but they have to win final 2 matches. Next match, home to Wales, is winnable, but Besic has been a key player, deep-lying mid, an organizer. Assuming he's now suspended for that match, he's very foolishly hurt his team. Maybe a long-term benefit to Everton, as he needs to learn he cannot lash out, and here he's forced to learn it outside the EPL context. I hope he can learn it, as I like what he offers. He has good vision, can make the long pass, very good dribbler, including under pressure. He pivots skillfully out of pressure. Strong tackler, but will draw refs' warnings and cards.

Yes, that's the back 4. Especially in first half, both Shaw and Clyne sometimes went forward at same time, so it was Everton alone protecting Hart. Who didn't need much protecting.

Barkley not all that noticeable first half, though the opposition is so discombobulated and the pitch so mediocre that it's hard to take much from the match, other than the win. Barkley's header was perfect. I'd say Vardy's pace was impressive, Shelvey's surprising command and excellent long passing, Milner very active, Stones strong. Too bad Rooney's record-tying goal was a PK from a controversial penalty.

Argentina-Mexico friendly will be on U.S. tv Tuesday night (played in Texas). I'm hoping Funes Mori again starts, so I can get a good look at his play.

Watched first 60 minutes of Belgium v. Bosnia-Herzegovina match today. Impressed by Besic, especially when he took the ball forward on his own. He's a good passer and very good dribbler, better than McCarthy, I think. As DM, he was constantly surveying the pitch. No idea how he performed in final 30 minutes, but he was a very valuable player in first 60. Lukaku missed a couple of good header opportunities, disappointing. Stats say he was offside 4 times. Blech. Wake up, Rom. Mirallas didn't play.

You live in Hawaii?

I admit up front that I'm more relieved that the window is closed than discouraged that we failed to get a #10. My point here is not that we should be giddy about this long, long season still in front of us, but that almost anything can happen; and it's equally likely that we'll end up 6th as 13th. Or whatever. For me, the two overriding issues are injuries and Barry. The injuries to Baines and Cleverley will hurt our chances at pushing for 4th, even 6th. Any further long-term (months) injuries, and we'll just lose a few too many points this Fall to recover sufficiently next Spring. We can't really even afford another couple of intermediate-term (weeks) losses. A key player out for one match, ok, but beyond that, the injuries will doom us to mid-table. Barry -- He helps, until he hurts. If Barry starts 50% of the matches, and doesn't get a red, that's ok. But 90% starting won't do. Going into the 6 Sept-Oct EPL matches, I fear Roberto will "depend" on Barry's experience, at the expense of younger, talented players who will see less of the pitch because Barry's seeing too much of it. After the international break, and barring Problem #1 -- more injuries -- here's what looks like our best post-deadline team: ............................. Howard ............................ Coleman ..... Stones ..... Jagielka ..... Oviedo ................ McCarthy ..................................... .........................................Barkley ................ ....Deulofeu ............................. Mirallas ...... .................................. Kone ......................... ..................Lukaku ....................................... I don't know what to call it, 4-2-3-1, or 4-4-2, though it's really 4-1-4-1. In a sense, each of Kone, Mirallas, and Deulofeu can be a kind of "false 10," seeing as we have no "true 10," but also seeing as each of those 3 can move between wing and the space between Barkley and Lukaku. Naismith is good enough as a poacher to spell a tiring Kone or Lukaku. Besic can spell McCarthy. Lennon will challenge Deulofeu and Mirallas to keep their spots, as when he starts on the right, either Deulofeu goes to bench or to RW, with Mirallas on bench. I suppose for some matches, 2 DMs might be appropriate, in which case throw Barry in there with McCarthy or Besic, and start the match with one of Barkley, Deulofeu/Lennon, Mirallas/Lennon, or Kone on bench, depending on who's been the least effective. But if it's Barry all the time, it's the opposite of exciting: plodding. Make that plodddddding.

No, you're not crazy enough to carry out this threat, because you're too crazy. Pretty much everyone on TT is too crazy. I include myself, though in my defense, I will note that there are levels of "too crazy." Everton are a sort of Dante's "Inferno" of the EPL. Today feels like the 5th circle.

Agree with "eventually." No way of knowing whether his future performance will justify the unexpectedly high fee. But he's young, coming into his best years, so I'll assume RM thinks he's found CB cover for now, and a competitor with Galloway to replace Jagielka 2-3 years on. As an Evertonian loyalist, Jagielka will be expected to help the young guys -- not just Stones, but Funes Mori, Galloway, Browning -- who might wind up being our CBs of the future. He'll be a willing teacher, they enthusiastic learners. Preferably they'll focus on his strengths, as they will want to learn not to mimic his occasional daft decisions. Funes Mori -- the name adds a little pizzazz to the team sheet. Not worth the extra £3m. Still.

Yes, it was different. The time I referred to was also very late in game, but on left side. Interesting, it does sound a lot similar. This time Barkley ended up just taking a wild shot. Like you said, I wanted to shake him, to go along with cussing him. Assuming this happened twice in just a few minutes, all the more reason to be frustrated with his decision-making. As I said over on the Oviedo thread, it's the football brain issue that crops up with Barkley. This little mini-discussion makes me want to go back and watch just the last 10 minutes of the match. Re-watching the whole thing would be too dismaying. But I might be able to stomach 10 minutes.

Romey's post above, re Barkley -- I thought it was Oviedo out there on the left that Barkley ignored, but you say Deulofeu. Anybody else remember that stupid Barkley moment? Not a big issue, just curious.