Avinalaff

That's my whole outlook Pete. The game first, the winning second. I think we had a similar conversation in a recent thread. If you play football, and your job is to win, I can understand a player being content with that, as he only has the skills he has been blessed with. For football fans, it's different. Fans want to be entertained. Fans who can sit there and watch rubbish, week in week out can't be happy. If they are, there is something wrong. It reminds me of lads who don't bother turning up for their darts team (for example) until they hear their team is in the final. I often watch football from lower leagues, or abroad, or even if I'm passing a park on a Sunday, I might pull over for 10 minutes and watch the lads (perv jokes can be submitted to the secretary). If it's crap, I'll watch another match, or turn off. I don't get lads who say "who cares as long as we win?" - to them, why not just catch the score in the Sunday paper every week, and walk tall knowing you are victorious.

Ba dum.

What have you won lately? Did you take the free kick that lead to the goal, or perhaps tuck the penalty into the top corner to seal victory? If it was just about following teams that are winning, why aren't you sat in Old Trafford or the Nou Camp?? It can't be just about winning, or if it was, why follow a club that doesn't 'win' ? No amount of investment will guarantee wins. No amount of loyal support will guarantee wins either. If there is an acceptance that you can't win every week, then surely the key word changes from 'winning' to 'competing'? My whole point is that you 'can't win' because the competition is fixed. It is not a game of equal opportunity. Even if Everton gain investment, then what about all the other clubs who can no longer compete either? Does it become a private league for the filthy rich only? Is that what football is about? I thought it was a working class sport? Fans want investment - in order to make it even. It won't happen. The only way to make it even is to rid the game of the money men, and all that are associated with it, and start again. Then, you can win, and the cycle will restart.

lol. Fasten your seat belts.

Canada sounds a great place. My neighbours lad is planning on living there, as was a singer friend. Wouldn't mind a slice of that myself. No 60" tv of course.

This post will go down like a lead balloon, but I don't care lol. Where is the line drawn between being a football fan and being a glory hunter? Is wanting new players, investment, and trophies not glory hunting? I can understand fans wanting a nice new stadium, in order to be able to watch the game in comfort, with a great view, and great atmosphere, but the moment it becomes a revenue opportunity, in which to finance all that is bad about the game, I often scratch my head. In truth, there are very few football fans left. What we have now are fans who are only interested in glory, winning, and bragging about it as though they kicked that winning goal in themselves. Please bring back the days of having 11 equal players, playing against 11 equal players, and a crowd that watched both teams, and enjoyed the game for what it was. Fans became fans because one team played well, and entertained, and became fans favourites etc. Not because some clown changed all the chess pieces so that one team had 6 queens, 4 Castles, and plenty of knights, and the other team had just pawns. Rip the whole game up, tell all the over paid players to go get a job, and tell the money men to piss off, and let the game become a game again. The answer isn't to try to keep up with the other big spenders, but instead, to kick the big spenders out of the game, and stop them from coming back. Back to basics would be just great. Thanks. Why put so much pressure on our club to become in debt? The football clubs should invest at the academy level if anything, and bring talent through because of hard work, proper training, and perseverance. Why bother sending our kids to school, when we can just buy their degree instead? Heck, why bother even having kids and bringing them up? Why not just go out and buy the finished article, because that is what football clubs do. It's all bollox. Can't we enjoy the game without having to be the best all the time? Will our lives be incomplete if Everton don't win another trophy? Humans are very funny animals. Football fans are worse.

Where would you go to, and I mean this in a nice way? Other countries have exactly the same problems, and exactly the same good and bad. Nobody is born 'frustrated' (for example). Being part of 'any' society means that we have to put up with the rough and the smooth. England and many other countries too, are becoming suffocated by their own technological successes, in that no longer are we free to wander the meadows, tip toe through the tulips, or run naked through the woods as we were thousands of years ago. One person in the world is delighted that he can watch tv on a 60 inch screen, in high definition, and another is delighted to have clean water to drink. That's how much we all take our lives for granted. I hear young folk complaining that they don't have the opportunities in life (just like they always have) and that they can't afford 'top name' clothes, yet they don't think of the guy dressed in sack cloth, or animal skin. If we want to live in a society that has all the benefits of modern technology, we can't possibly expect to have the same freedom as a society that doesn't, nor can we expect everybody to be equal, as the society we all live in is designed around the sole purpose of 'having more' rather than 'having enough'. Personally, I would love to wake up everyday without responsibility, without the rat race, and without technology, and be able to lie in the grass and look up at the sky for as many hours a day as I want to, and not have to care what time it was, and do you know, that I could, if I didn't have to find a way to pay for everything that I have, and give a big slice to the government too. So is the answer to our frustration to have less? Is it to become 'primitive' once again, and only have to worry about finding food, and not becoming food? Folk want both, and they can't have it, and that is half the battle, before any other amount of politics are even considered. They see someone else with something, and they want it.

I need to also add to, that although you probably mean well, when you write : Only a few hundred rioters caused problems. There are approximately 61,113,205 people in Britain. Even if One hundred thousand idiots hit the streets, sixty one million didn't. Take comfort in that, rather than give credit to a minuscule minority. Great Britain is full of good people. Not bad. Only a small element in 'any' country are bad. There is nothing to be ashamed about. I pointed out your swearing, not because the swearing itself was the issue (although it doesn't exactly make for enjoyable reading if we're honest) but because of the irony, at casting judgement upon others, whilst expressing yourself in such a way. Can't you see a little irony in that?

I got the last one right, after having to think. I'm getting too old for this lol. Superb Bill.

Unless Beckford is given a full season as a starting player, we don't know what we have got. He'll still be worth at least what Erikson is offering at the next transfer window, so why sell?

Bit difficult to know if you like it or not until you've read it. I normally find this helps us to avoid this discussion. http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php/topic/2839-attn-all-members-new-old/

Sturridge is no more proven in the Prem than anyone else. The difference being that Sturridge thinks he should be played 20 billion per week. I'd play them both together, but I wouldn't lose Beckford for Sturridge. We need both. I think Beckford is a sleeping giant.

* shakes head and sighs.

I don't see European labour being paid minimum wage as a free ride somehow. Great Britain, as you put it, wouldn't survive without the imput of other countries. For example, we have nowhere near enough doctors, or nurses, or teachers, to quote just a few professions. Are the folk who come here to fill these roles in order for our system to keep working 'riff raff' too? We have as many people living in Europe as we have Europeans living in the UK. The last thing we need is to turn the thread into a discussion about immigration.

There are many who will tell you that City's academy is the best.

For the record, Bilyaletdinov has a 3 match ban, and Gueye is injured. Do we need 4 defenders? (ouch, that's so off topic) so should I rephrase it and ask should we use 6 midfielders?

Lol, Baines would be gone this afternoon if he was offered for £20m.

If we could play our players, and know that they would play at their best, then my team would have the following players in the middle: Bilyaletdinov Arteta Fellaini Osman Heitinga Coleman eventually at Right Back, but not yet. Possibly make Osman captain as he isn't scared of kicking players up the ass. Not seen enough of Barkley and Gueye to include them. Cahill would be rotated as a 2nd striker / impact sub as and when needed and Rodwell would eventually replace Heitinga once he is good enough, with Heitings dropping back into a flooating role between defence and defensive mid, depending on who has the ball.

1327 minutes is only 14.7 games for 8 goals and 2 assists. Consider that many of his substitutions were last 10 minute jobs and it's a pretty good record. It's 20 goals a season form, but not for a top 4 team, but with us. We have to give guys time to bed in, and if Beckford gets the games he deserves, then he will succeed. We don't owe Saha a start. Both have contracts with us, and this will probably be Saha's last season with us. I'd rather we put our efforts into Beckford. Bent is absolute class and a bargain at the price. Another striker who has plied his trade without top 4 support. I'd gladly have him at Everton.

lol Took me a few seconds.

Save your money, and show him this site: http://www.myp2p.eu/competition.php?competitionid=&part=sports&discipline=football Never miss a match again in his life, and you get your hair done. Bingo. Hope he loves the Wigan match.

We got him free because Beckford refused to renew his contract. I personally feel that Beckford will be playing for England before the year is out. If we had to buy him, we can only judge his fee in relation to his performances, and if we were to do that, then the lad is worth at least 10-15 mill based on his 10 goals alone, never mind the 30 odd per season he was knocking in before we bought him.

Followed by an official 'feck off' from Kenwright.

You can always put your coffee on it.

To compare (taken from Redcafe) : ..........Name..............Minutes played..........min per goal 1...Dimitar Berbatov......... 2207...................... 110,35 2nd 2...Carlos Tevez...............2521....................... 126,05 4th 3...Robin v. Persie............1770....................... 98,333 1st 4...Darren Bent.................3144...................... 184,94 5...Peter Odemwingie........2620...................... 174,67 6...Florent Malouda...........2801...................... 213,46 7...Rafael Van der Vaart....2225...................... 171,15 8...Dirk Kuyt....................2816...................... 216,62 9...Andrew Carroll.............2070...................... 159,23 5th 10.DJ Campbell................2674...................... 205,69 11.Javier Hernandez..........1490...................... 114,62 3rd