The Beard Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Absolutely disgusted with chants from a small section of Evertonians, if they can be called that, standing at the back of the lower section at White Hart Lane yesterday. The singing referring to 'Hitler' and how we was an Evertonian and the anti-semetic chanting was abhorrent. All those involved should be ashamed of themselves BUT the ignorant intolerables are probably totally unaware that this man may have caused heartache and attempts to destroy their own families involving their grandparents etc. Ashamed that I have to associate myself with these morons and finding myself apologising on their behalf. Went some way to ruining a great day out. I do hope the cameras/ sound never picked up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Absolutely disgusted with chants from a small section of Evertonians, if they can be called that, standing at the back of the lower section at White Hart Lane yesterday. The singing referring to 'Hitler' and how we was an Evertonian and the anti-semetic chanting was abhorrent. All those involved should be ashamed of themselves BUT the ignorant intolerables are probably totally unaware that this man may have caused heartache and attempts to destroy their own families involving their grandparents etc. Ashamed that I have to associate myself with these morons and finding myself apologising on their behalf. Went some way to ruining a great day out. I do hope the cameras/ sound never picked up on it. I'm not condoning it but was it the... spurs are on thier way to ???????, Hitler's gona ............ one? To be fair I think most clubs sing that song when they play Spurs... many not knowing the significance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 To be fair I think most clubs sing that song when they play Spurs... many not knowing the significance! Neither of which make it acceptable. Should be thrown out of the ground imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Neither of which make it acceptable. Should be thrown out of the ground imo. I'm not condoning it, just saying it's not just Evertonians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Absolutely disgusted with chants from a small section of Evertonians, if they can be called that, standing at the back of the lower section at White Hart Lane yesterday. The singing referring to 'Hitler' and how we was an Evertonian and the anti-semetic chanting was abhorrent. All those involved should be ashamed of themselves BUT the ignorant intolerables are probably totally unaware that this man may have caused heartache and attempts to destroy their own families involving their grandparents etc. Ashamed that I have to associate myself with these morons and finding myself apologising on their behalf. Went some way to ruining a great day out. I do hope the cameras/ sound never picked up on it. I don't get why you have to apologise on their behalf? Just because you share the same interest in a football team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohen Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 I don't get why you have to apologise on their behalf? Just because you share the same interest in a football team? Because they're representing Everton fans, and it's embarrassing to be associated with that sort of anti-Semitism. I suppose it's a bit like if you go out with a mate, and he's drunk, being a bit of an idiot, knocking into people, shouting his mouth off, you feel the need to apologise to people. It's not you that's being an idiot but you feel bad/embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Because they're representing Everton fans, and it's embarrassing to be associated with that sort of anti-Semitism. I suppose it's a bit like if you go out with a mate, and he's drunk, being a bit of an idiot, knocking into people, shouting his mouth off, you feel the need to apologise to people. It's not you that's being an idiot but you feel bad/embarrassed. They're not mates they have nothing to do with the man. If someone I don't know acts an idiot it's absolutely nothing to do with me. People represent themselves, the fact that they share an interest is neither here nor there. If you go to a gig of a band you like and someone else there you don't know acts like an idiot then you wouldn't feel like you have apologise for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohen Posted October 28, 2010 Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 They're not mates they have nothing to do with the man. If someone I don't know acts an idiot it's absolutely nothing to do with me. People represent themselves, the fact that they share an interest is neither here nor there. If you go to a gig of a band you like and someone else there you don't know acts like an idiot then you wouldn't feel like you have apologise for them. Okay, so the Spurs fans that heard the chanting said to each other "Oh look at Joe and Fred there singing about Jews." Nah, they said "Look at those Everton fans (Of which Beard was part of) singing about Jews" I don't think he needed to apologise, just felt as if he should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) I don't get why you have to apologise on their behalf? Just because you share the same interest in a football team? Well Paul, let's use another metaphor. Last year a good friend of mine was mugged, whilst watching Everton in Athens. The next day we where having a drink in a bar and explained to some 'genuine' locals what had happened the night before. The locals could not apologise more for the behaviour of fellow countrymen of theirs. Do you think our answer was to not acknowledge their apologies. I don't think so, in fact it went a long way towards my friend forgetting his bad experience. Further to this what these pricks don't realise is that while they can hide behind their friends/ stewards/ police or whatever as they sidle back to their coaches (and I know they where on coaches), the rest of the genuine blameless fans who travel independently then, may, have to run the gauntlet of opposing fans who have witnessed atrocious chanting. I have seen that happen in the past, from us and others by the way. Even having a pint in a pub close to the ground after the game and chatting away, we where questioned about those chants and as I totally disagreed with it, I offered my apologies, a rather courteous thing to do, I thought anyway. Either way, it was unwarranted, unnecessary and unfortunately highlights the sign of the times. Edited October 28, 2010 by The Beard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Just on another note... do we as Evertonians expect the Spurs fans to apologise on behalf of the 'Never Work Again'/other jobless/dole references some were singing about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 to me chants are chants..they don't mean anything and even if you do apologise you are still goin to get lumbered in with the nob heads as everyone seems to..the 2/3 people you apologise to won't remember you in the future and you will still get grouped in with the pricks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 (edited) Just on another note... do we as Evertonians expect the Spurs fans to apologise on behalf of the 'Never Work Again'/other jobless/dole references some were singing about? not quite the same as chanting about the holocaust though is it? (im assuming thats what the chant was about considering the Hitler reference). Im not saying its right, but just there are different degrees. Marco - chants arent just chants that mean nothing. Theyre designed to envoke some sort of emotion, usually positive. From the sounds of things, these were dark and deliberately intended to cause offence and pain. The chanting in the past of black players cant be considered just chants can they? I would do the same as the Beard because I would feel embarrassed by the dicks and would feel compelled to apologise, for the good of the general Evertonian name. However like Marco says, people wont really pay that much attention because most people are intelligent enough to know its a minority group of idiots and the trouble usually happens when 2 groups of idiots clash. However it does happen that innocent good natured people get caught in the crossfire. Edited October 29, 2010 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 just my way of seein things..words are words and all that they don't really bother me..i'm probably in the minority of that and can see why they offend people but to me it's just some gobshites thinkin they're funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Reg Reagan Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 I'm not condoning it but was it the... spurs are on thier way to ???????, Hitler's gona ............ one? To be fair I think most clubs sing that song when they play Spurs... many not knowing the significance! I am Jewish myself, Its really uncalled for to call Tottenham fans a bunch of Jews and I have heard these chants before whenever an Israeli team play in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 not quite the same as chanting about the holocaust though is it? (im assuming thats what the chant was about considering the Hitler reference). Im not saying its right, but just there are different degrees. Of course it's not the same but it still may be hurtful/angering to many experiencing it. I share marco's belief - names don't bother me - I can see how they would others but people only verbally offend others to get a reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Just on another note... do we as Evertonians expect the Spurs fans to apologise on behalf of the 'Never Work Again'/other jobless/dole references some were singing about? Maybe not in your world but some did point out the idiocy of their own for chanting something irrelevant and out of context. You're not some wannabe scally are you, sounds like to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Maybe not in your world but some did point out the idiocy of their own for chanting something irrelevant and out of context. You're not some wannabe scally are you, sounds like to me. Very mature post of you!!! No I'm not a wannabe scally nor actually a scally - I applied but got turned down! I've agreed that our chants were out of order but I've just pointed out a. it's not just evertonians and b. some of thier fans were singing non-football, stero-typed, offensive chants towards us - for exactly the same reason some of ours sang thier songs at spurs... to get a reaction!!! Anyway best get off now got an early meet to get down the station to throw coins at the stoke fans as they get off the train!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Very mature post of you!!! No I'm not a wannabe scally nor actually a scally - I applied but got turned down! I've agreed that our chants were out of order but I've just pointed out a. it's not just evertonians and b. some of thier fans were singing non-football, stero-typed, offensive chants towards us - for exactly the same reason some of ours sang thier songs at spurs... to get a reaction!!! Anyway best get off now got an early meet to get down the station to throw coins at the stoke fans as they get off the train!!! ahh man that made me laugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beard Posted October 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Of course it's not the same but it still may be hurtful/angering to many experiencing it. I share marco's belief - names don't bother me - I can see how they would others but people only verbally offend others to get a reaction. Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Indeed Your point? If what you'd said had bothered me I'd be composing anti-beard chants as we speak... I'm just shocked at your narrow-mindedness on this subject. Nevermind hey!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Okay, so the Spurs fans that heard the chanting said to each other "Oh look at Joe and Fred there singing about Jews." Nah, they said "Look at those Everton fans (Of which Beard was part of) singing about Jews" I don't think he needed to apologise, just felt as if he should. I doubt Beard was part of those Everton fans singing it. I'm sure that the Spurs fans seen the small no. of Everton fans singing it and the large no. of Everton fans not singing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Well Paul, let's use another metaphor. Last year a good friend of mine was mugged, whilst watching Everton in Athens. The next day we where having a drink in a bar and explained to some 'genuine' locals what had happened the night before. The locals could not apologise more for the behaviour of fellow countrymen of theirs. Do you think our answer was to not acknowledge their apologies. I don't think so, in fact it went a long way towards my friend forgetting his bad experience. Further to this what these pricks don't realise is that while they can hide behind their friends/ stewards/ police or whatever as they sidle back to their coaches (and I know they where on coaches), the rest of the genuine blameless fans who travel independently then, may, have to run the gauntlet of opposing fans who have witnessed atrocious chanting. I have seen that happen in the past, from us and others by the way. Even having a pint in a pub close to the ground after the game and chatting away, we where questioned about those chants and as I totally disagreed with it, I offered my apologies, a rather courteous thing to do, I thought anyway. Either way, it was unwarranted, unnecessary and unfortunately highlights the sign of the times. When a foreigner gets mugged here I don't feel the need to apologise. If a Spurs fan asked me about it I would said they were dickheads. If he questioned me about it then I would have had to tell them to speak to the fans who done it, I'm not a mind reader to their actions just because they share an interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 They wouldn't sing that stuff if they knew what the Jewish families went through. The film Schindlers list is a hard hitting film, but true. Terrible events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherEstapol Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Um, you know the last post before yours Avinalaff was October LAST year? Why bring this up again? We've not even played Spurs this season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Um, you know the last post before yours Avinalaff was October LAST year? Why bring this up again? We've not even played Spurs this season! I've just watched the film. I saw the thread and it was a good opportunity to mention the film. Absolute classic if you haven't seen it. Didn't really bother to look at the date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanchesterCity Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Most sensible footballs fans KNOW it's not ALL Everton fans / Man U / City whatever... it's a minority of them. I can see the view that 'it's not me doing it, it's other mindless individual' - and that is true - BUT their actions have an impact on the club: - Financial penalties for racist chanting - Possible points deductions - Bad press does nothing to encourage investment into the club - The reputation of fans 'as a group' is damaged - They are chanting in earshot of us all So, whilst I have sympathy for the 'nothing to do with me' view - I think it's right that the club, and the decent fans make a stand against it. If you don't, then it will carry on, and THAT makes you party to it by not condemning it. There's some serious wit on the terraces sometimes and we need to be mindful of not losing that wit. Sometimes, it's much harder to draw a line between acceptable and unacceptable. Hillsborough, Munich, Racism, The Wenger Thing - all and the hard core NOT acceptable list. 'You fat b*****d', wife comments etc etc - some can be witty, are they acceptable? ever? 'We forgot that you were here', "Sit down shut up" - funny and totally acceptable. It's that middle ground stuff where most will not be sure about what's ok and what isn't. But I think when the majority of fans deplore something, it's probably common decency for the rest to avoid chanting it. Every club's got this issue - no matter what they claim. It's not just Everton. City fans were throwing stuff the other night (paper balls made from the paper they gave fans to hold up at the start of the match) - but still, they had to be told TWICE on the PA to stop throwing stuff. I caught my own son calling United fans 'Munichs' - he won't be doing that again, I hope. Half the people singing this stuff don't THINK, it's not that they are setting out to really be nasty (although some are), many simply sing it and never pause for a moment to understand. Manure (Man U) seems ok to me Munich is relating to people dying - it's not funny. Edited October 21, 2011 by BlueSky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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