Question for our Belgian Toffees...Mirallas, and whoever else

[Iamryanstover]

What do you think of West Broms signing Yassine El Ghanassy?

 

What happened to Anthony Vanden Borre?

 

What do you think of Christian Benteke? He seems to have a great goal return and is really young. Also what is his current value?

 

What happened last summer with Standard Selling Axel Witsel (€8 million).and Steven Defour(€6 million)? Both players transfer fees combined were less than Fellaini (£15 million). I have been wondering about this for a year, but I do not know anyone from Belgium.

[SimonButtle]

Vanden Borre is back in Belgium with Genk

 

Witsel plays for Benfica

 

Defour plays for Porto(i think)

 

not sure about the other 2

[Iamryanstover]

Vanden Borre is back in Belgium with Genk

 

Witsel plays for Benfica

 

Defour plays for Porto(i think)

 

not sure about the other 2

Yeah I knew all that. I was more curious what happened to Vanden Borre's career, and why were the transfer fees so low for Witsel and Defour.

[SimonButtle]

Me too tbh, he showed a fair bit of promise at one point, still only 24 according to wiki, i think Defour has had some injuries over the previous seasons, hence why he has never really got a big move anywhere.

[pete0]

Yeah I knew all that. I was more curious what happened to Vanden Borre's career, and why were the transfer fees so low for Witsel and Defour.

One of the Belgium's on here mention that the transfers were dodgy as the higher ups for Standard had connections with Benfica.

[Steve_E]

Yassine El Ghanassy is a talented player, but an idiot. He's really very skillful and quite quick and strong. Not that good of a crosser though. He's never performed well for his previous club Ghent for an entire season and already he thought he was too big for them and wanted out.

 

Anthony Vanden Borre actually is out of a club. Genk didn't even want to sign him. I wouldn't be too surprised if he was to turn up in Hungary or something like that. Another one who doesn't get he needs to work to be a professional footballer. Incredible talent he was back in the day though, like about as talented as Kompany. They just turned out to have completely different attitudes.

 

Christian Benteke is actually changing my opionion of him. I have long resented him for simply not being able to put the ball in goal for my favourite Belgian team who then offloaded him to Genk. And he's actually turned out to be a good footballer He's got good pace for someone of his lenght, but he's shit at heading the ball. He's got very good technique though. He can play with his back to goal and play one touch passes, laying it off, flicking it on, etc. And he suddenly doens't need five chances one on one with the goalkeeper anymore to score either. He's first choice for the Belgian national team probably and he scored against Heitinga and Matthijsen last weekend. Made them look pretty crappy really.

 

Defour has struggled to claim a regular starting place for Porto. Started 18 games for them in all competitions, played as a sub for another 17. Good holding midfielder for teams like Porto, but I think that'll prove to be his ceiling.

 

Axel Witsel has been sensational for Benfica. He's constantly being linked to Real Madrid in the Portuguese and Spanish press (and to AC Milan and AS Roma in the Italian press), but he's confirmed that he doesn't want to leave after just one season.

 

Check post 223 for the probable reason the went so cheap:

http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/17757-steven-defour-and-axel-witsel/page__st__200#entry248744

Edited August 21, 2012 by Steve_E

[Iamryanstover]

Yassine El Ghanassy is a talented player, but an idiot. He's really very skillful and quite quick and strong. Not that good of a crosser though. He's never performed well for his previous club Ghent for an entire season and already he thought he was too big for them and wanted out.

 

Anthony Vanden Borre actually is out of a club. Genk didn't even want to sign him. I wouldn't be too surprised if he was to turn up in Hungary or something like that. Another one who doesn't get he needs to work to be a professional footballer. Incredible talent he was back in the day though, like about as talented as Kompany. They just turned out to have completely different attitudes.

 

Christian Benteke is actually changing my opionion of him. I have long resented him for simply not being able to put the ball in goal for my favourite Belgian team who then offloaded him to Genk. And he's actually turned out to be a good footballer He's got good pace for someone of his lenght, but he's shit at heading the ball. He's got very good technique though. He can play with his back to goal and play one touch passes, laying it off, flicking it on, etc. And he suddenly doens't need five chances one on one with the goalkeeper anymore to score either. He's first choice for the Belgian national team probably and he scored against Heitinga and Matthijsen last weekend. Made them look pretty crappy really.

 

Defour has struggled to claim a regular starting place for Porto. Started 18 games for them in all competitions, played as a sub for another 17. Good holding midfielder for teams like Porto, but I think that'll prove to be his ceiling.

 

Axel Witsel has been sensational for Benfica. He's constantly being linked to Real Madrid in the Portuguese and Spanish press (and to AC Milan and AS Roma in the Italian press), but he's confirmed that he doesn't want to leave after just one season.

 

Check post 223 for the probable reason the went so cheap:

http://www.toffeetal...200#entry248744

Hey thanks a lot Steve. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Benteke looks like he has some real skill. I was really surprised when Standard sold Defour and Witsel, and I had a feeling there was more to the story because the prices were so low. Also I have long wondered what happened to Vanden Borre.

 

While I have your attention what do you think of Anderlecht players Lucas Biglia, who I heard is an Arsenal target, and US national player Sasha Kljesten?

[Mirallas]

There's a mad transfer saga going on about Witsel. Manchester United, Real Madrid, Ac Milan, apparently they all want him. Transfer fees of 35 million pounds have been named, but honestly, I don't think he's worth all that. He's a very decent midfielder, but he is not better than Fellaini.

[Mirallas]

Hey thanks a lot Steve. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Benteke looks like he has some real skill. I was really surprised when Standard sold Defour and Witsel, and I had a feeling there was more to the story because the prices were so low. Also I have long wondered what happened to Vanden Borre.

 

While I have your attention what do you think of Anderlecht players Lucas Biglia, who I heard is an Arsenal target, and US national player Sasha Kljesten?

 

I rate neither of them really capable of playing for the best EPL teams. I know Arsenal has been chasing Biglia for quite a while, but he doesn't even always perform up to Anderlechts level. When he does though, he's really a hidden force behind the team. But Arsenal? He's too slow to begin with. So much to my surprise, he has been called up for the Argentine national team once or twice. He even got to be captain. I thought that was priceless Agüero, Di Maria, Messi, Lavezzi, ... and Biglia

[Steve_E]

I agree, neither Biglia nor Kljestan, has what it takes to make it in the top. Both could do well for lesser PL teams though.

 

Biglia is a tidy player, high passing accuracy, mainly because he plays a lot of short passes sideways. He can't hit an accurate long pass imo. He also keeps taking a lot of corners and free kicks, despite not being able to do it well consistently. He's not really fast or strong either. He'd fit it an Swansea if you ask me.

 

Kljestan has lost his place in the starting XI under Anderlecht's new coach. Very good physically, he can run from box to box all game long. And he can hit a free kick. But the new Dutch manager prefers players with more technical ability.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Steve_E

[Churinga2]

Christian Benteke is actually changing my opionion of him. I have long resented him for simply not being able to put the ball in goal for my favourite Belgian team who then offloaded him to Genk. And he's actually turned out to be a good footballer He's got good pace for someone of his lenght, but he's shit at heading the ball. He's got very good technique though. He can play with his back to goal and play one touch passes, laying it off, flicking it on, etc. And he suddenly doens't need five chances one on one with the goalkeeper anymore to score either. He's first choice for the Belgian national team probably and he scored against Heitinga and Matthijsen last weekend. Made them look pretty crappy really.

 

I'm sure there is a topic of him here ( He was linked to Everton before his move to Genk), and i'm quite sure I was rather negative to say the least

 

Like Steve said, he' turned out to be a very decent allround striker, I'd say he has PL potential. I hope he stays with Genk for another season though.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Churinga

[Churinga2]

There's a mad transfer saga going on about Witsel. Manchester United, Real Madrid, Ac Milan, apparently they all want him. Transfer fees of 35 million pounds have been named, but honestly, I don't think he's worth all that. He's a very decent midfielder, but he is not better than Fellaini.

 

I agree, i actually feel he's slightly overrated.

[EFC-Paul]

He's got good pace for someone of his lenght

 

You sound like My missus

[Louis]

I have another question for the resident Belgians..

 

Is Standard Liege's academy impressive or are the likes of Fellaini, Mirallas, Witsel etc. simply a good batch?

[Mirallas]

I have another question for the resident Belgians..

 

Is Standard Liege's academy impressive or are the likes of Fellaini, Mirallas, Witsel etc. simply a good batch?

 

Some youth programs are just more succesfull than others. When you compare it to Club Bruges, who is a major club in Belgium, their youth academy hardly represents anything in terms of players brought forth.

 

I don't really know a lot about how these academies work, you might want to ask Steve about it. But my guess is that there's only 2 or 3 teams in the belgian highest division from the french speaking half of Belgium. One of them turns out to be one of the "big 3" in Belgium: Standard. Maybe that way it could be a reason for half of the country's promising youth to come to Standard. They brought forth Mirallas, Chadli, Fellaini, Witsel, Van Buyten, Benteke and a few more of those. Anderlecht on the other hand seems to attract a lot of Dutch speaking talents like the Lukakus and Dennis Praet...

 

But I repeat, it's just a guess, ask a second opinion.

[Steve_E]

The Belgian clubs who have really invested in their youth programs are Standard and Genk. They've really invested in infrastructure. At Standard, even the young boys (like the U9's) have indoor training facilities and the likes. State of the art stuff. They and Genk have really modernised their training methods as well. They're in contact with clubs and experts in France, Holland and Germany and they've really got a new emphasis on the technical ability of their players and the transition between all of the age groups and eventually into the first team.

 

Anderlecht have invested in their youth program as well in recent years, but of course it's too early to expect immediate results. Of course they'll also simply attract the best young talent as they're the biggest club in Belgium. That Dennis Praet lad Mirallas just mentioned actually got his training at Genk, but then just screwed Genk and signed his first pro contract for Anderlecht when he turned 16 after being courted by them, Arsenal and Real Madrid. Of course, Genk and Standard do the same thing with smaller clubs. And all of the Belgian teams lose a big part of their best players to foreign clubs (mainly the Dutch big three PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax and the French clubs in the border area, like Lille and Lens; but to a lot of English clubs as well of late) which is probably the most frustrating thing about the youth program. You invest a lot of money in it, but you can't seem to keep the best ones.

[Iamryanstover]

Thanks for all the replies guys it answered several of my questions.

[Guest blueboy122]

The Belgian clubs who have really invested in their youth programs are Standard and Genk. They've really invested in infrastructure. At Standard, even the young boys (like the U9's) have indoor training facilities and the likes. State of the art stuff. They and Genk have really modernised their training methods as well. They're in contact with clubs and experts in France, Holland and Germany and they've really got a new emphasis on the technical ability of their players and the transition between all of the age groups and eventually into the first team.

 

Anderlecht have invested in their youth program as well in recent years, but of course it's too early to expect immediate results. Of course they'll also simply attract the best young talent as they're the biggest club in Belgium. That Dennis Praet lad Mirallas just mentioned actually got his training at Genk, but then just screwed Genk and signed his first pro contract for Anderlecht when he turned 16 after being courted by them, Arsenal and Real Madrid. Of course, Genk and Standard do the same thing with smaller clubs. And all of the Belgian teams lose a big part of their best players to foreign clubs (mainly the Dutch big three PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax and the French clubs in the border area, like Lille and Lens; but to a lot of English clubs as well of late) which is probably the most frustrating thing about the youth program. You invest a lot of money in it, but you can't seem to keep the best ones.

 

Interesting, alot of people where discussing on here a few months ago about the possibility of Belgium winning something in the next few years when all there players start to peak, they are all due to peak at the same time. What is your view on this?

[Lowensda]

Interesting, alot of people where discussing on here a few months ago about the possibility of Belgium winning something in the next few years when all there players start to peak, they are all due to peak at the same time. What is your view on this?

 

[Steve_E]

Interesting, alot of people where discussing on here a few months ago about the possibility of Belgium winning something in the next few years when all there players start to peak, they are all due to peak at the same time. What is your view on this?

 

I'd be psyched just to be at an international tournament again. My only memory of Belgium in an international tournament is of a game I didn't even see as I was 10 years old back then (2002 world cup) and we weren't allowed to watch the game at school. We were unjustly defeated by later champions Brazil because of a wrongly disallowed Marc Wilmots goal. He's the manager of our national team nowadays.

 

Having said that, I think we should do really well in the coming years. As you have said, a lot of those talented players will be at their peak in the next 6 years. And they all already have a lot of international experience as most of them have been regularly playing international games since they were like 19 or 20 years old because of the previous Belgian generation being so incredibly shit.

[Churinga2]

I'd be psyched just to be at an international tournament again. My only memory of Belgium in an international tournament is of a game I didn't even see as I was 10 years old back then (2002 world cup) and we weren't allowed to watch the game at school. We were unjustly defeated by later champions Brazil because of a wrongly disallowed Marc Wilmots goal. He's the manager of our national team nowadays.

 

the referees name was Prendergast, never forget..

 

I smuggled a radio into class for that

 

Interesting, alot of people where discussing on here a few months ago about the possibility of Belgium winning something in the next few years when all there players start to peak, they are all due to peak at the same time. What is your view on this?

 

I'm not too excited just yet. people have been saying we have a bright future for 5 years now, and they have absolutely failed to deliver thusfar. But yeah, even a blind man can see we have the individual quality to go far in tournaments, but now we actually have to start performing accordingly.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Churinga

[Bailey]

Some great insight in here. I really do hope Belgium get it together on the International stage as they could have a really good mix of flair and steel. Players like Vermaelen, Felli, Lukaku & Kompany playing alongside Mirallas and Hazard.

[Steve_E]

Yeah, on paper we have a really good team.

Courtois

Gillet Kompany Vermaelen Vertonghen

Witsel Dembélé

Hazard Fellaini De Bruyne

Lukaku

 

That's a very good team imo. And we'd still have a very good bench too with Mignolet in goal; Daniel Van Buyten (Bayern), Nicolas Lombaerts (Zenit St. Petersburg) and Toby Alderweireld (Ajax) in defense; Steven Defour (Porto) and Radja Nainggolan (Cagliari, but has been linked to Juventus, Napoli and Manchester City) in midfield; Kevin Mirallas, Dries Mertens (PSV) and Nacer Chadli (Twente) on the wings and Christian Benteke (Genk, perhaps off to Villa before the end of the transfer window) in attack.

 

And apparently the current U17/U18 generation has a number of world class talents in it too.

[Lowensda]

*Holds betting slip tightly*

[Mirallas]

There are still some teenage Belgian talents in the making, for instance Dennis Praet (Anderlecht), Charly Musonda (Chelsea) and Siebe Schrijvers (Genk). The latter one debuted in the first team at 15y of age with a hattrick. Musonda is perceived as a next Eden Hazard, and imo that isn't even necessarily exaggerated, I just hope Chelsea don't ruin him.

[Lowensda]

There are still some teenage Belgian talents in the making, for instance Dennis Praet (Anderlecht), Charly Musonda (Chelsea) and Siebe Schrijvers (Genk). The latter one debuted in the first team at 15y of age with a hattrick. Musonda is perceived as a next Eden Hazard, and imo that isn't even necessarily exaggerated, I just hope Chelsea don't ruin him.

 

CHelsea signed Musonda!? When?!!? FFS. As you say, I hope he isn't ruined. Or lost in their academy *cough*Gael Kakuta*cough*...