You don't need money to win trophies .......... err ?

[Avinalaff]

There seems to be a concept that you don't need to be a rich club to win something, so David Moyes is a failure, in so many words, so let's look at the statistics, and see if those who think that are correct.

 

Well, it could be argued that the clubs highlighted in green prove this, but, didn't they spend a few quid themselves? Were some / all of them taken over?

 

Notice not a single one of them who won 'any bit of silverware' are still playing top flight football.

 

Still want Everton to go into debt to win a trophy?

 

 

FA CUP LAST 15 YEARS

 

2011/2012 Chelsea

2010/2011 Manchester C

2009/2010 Chelsea

2008/2009 Chelsea

2007/2008 Portsmouth

2006/2007 Chelsea

2005/2006 Liverpool

2004/2005 Arsenal

2003/2004 Manchester Utd

2002/2003 Arsenal

2001/2002 Arsenal

2000/2001 Liverpool

1999/2000 Chelsea

1998/1999 Manchester Utd

1997/1998 Arsenal

 

LEAGUE CUP LAST 15 YEARS

 

2011/2012 Liverpool

2010/2011 Birmingham C

2008/2009 Manchester Utd

2007/2008 Tottenham

2006/2007 Chelsea

2005/2006 Manchester

2004/2005 Chelsea

2003/2004 Middlesbrough

2002/2003 Liverpool

2001/2002 Blackburn Rov

2000/2001 Liverpool

1999/2000 Leicester City

1998/1999 Tottenham

1997/1998 Chelsea

 

PREMIERSHIP LAST 20 YEARS

 

1992-93- Man Utd

1993-94- Man Utd

1994-95- Blackburn Rovers

1995-96- Man Utd

1996-97- Man Utd

1997-98- Arsenal

1998-99- Man Utd

1999-00- Man Utd

2000-01- Man Utd

2001-02- Arsenal

2002-03- Man Utd

2003-04- Arsenal

2004-05- Chelsea

2005-06- Chelsea

2006-07- Man Utd

2007-08- Man Utd

2008-09- Man Utd

2009-10- Chelsea

2010-11- Man Utd

2011-12 Manchester City

 

CHARITY / COMMUNITY SHIELD LAST 20 YEARS

 

2011/2012 Manchester Utd

2010/2011 Manchester Utd

2009/2010 Chelsea

2008/2009 Manchester Utd

2007/2008 Manchester Utd

2006/2007 Liverpool

2005/2006 Chelsea

2004/2005 Arsenal

2003/2004 Manchester Utd

2002/2003 Arsenal

 

2001/2002 Liverpool

2000/2001 Chelsea

1999/2000 Arsenal

1998/1999 Arsenal

1997/1998 Manchester Utd

1996/1997 Manchester Utd

1995/1996 Everton

1994/1995 Manchester Utd

1993/1994 Manchester Utd

1992/1993 Leeds Utd

[GoodisonRoad]

My point exactly! Now....Where is DK!?

[Lowensda]

Problem is, when you start winning things consistently, you're showered with rewards. So breaking that cycle is hard.

[Bailey]

But money alone cant but you trophies

[Hafnia]

There are many components to winning trophies = good manager, good players, luck, belief.

 

Money can get you a good manager who can sign good players - some managers waste good money on average players. Some managers collect good players who do not get on and create disharmony = poor team morale.

 

Money when used correctly can give a manager a massive adavantage, but also when used incorrectly a massive disadvantage.

 

I think Wenger is a genius. The money he has spent has 8/10 always gone on quality, he lets his mercenaries leave and let's be honest barring RVP none have really gone on to be a greater success than they were before playing for arsenal.

 

Sure, people will point to his recent record etc, but I believe he is about to embark on something special. Man city will continue to have a revolving door with superstars coming and going. Pound for pound he is the best manager i've seen in a long time. Arsenal are set up for life due to him more or less delivering a stadium for them. Soon enough we will see an Arsenal team ready to challenge and it will be made the right way.

[Bailey]

There are many components to winning trophies = good manager, good players, luck, belief.

 

Money can get you a good manager who can sign good players - some managers waste good money on average players. Some managers collect good players who do not get on and create disharmony = poor team morale.

 

Money when used correctly can give a manager a massive adavantage, but also when used incorrectly a massive disadvantage.

 

I think Wenger is a genius. The money he has spent has 8/10 always gone on quality, he lets his mercenaries leave and let's be honest barring RVP none have really gone on to be a greater success than they were before playing for arsenal.

 

Sure, people will point to his recent record etc, but I believe he is about to embark on something special. Man city will continue to have a revolving door with superstars coming and going. Pound for pound he is the best manager i've seen in a long time. Arsenal are set up for life due to him more or less delivering a stadium for them. Soon enough we will see an Arsenal team ready to challenge and it will be made the right way.

 

Not sure about that just yet. He has some talented players but he is as far away as we are from assembling a title winning team IMO.

 

He has done brilliantly to take the club where it is now from a financial perspective but I would be surprised if they are in the top 4 come the end of the season & part of me wonders if they will even make the top 6. As an opposition manager, I would absolutely love to play against them which is not something I would ever have thought of saying 6 or 7 years ago!

[Dalziel Kane]

Whoever said Moyes was a failure. Ok he's won nothing as a manager here, not sure about Preston by way of a play off final etc, but once again, the league finishes speak for themselves. Was most impressive initially coming in after Smith and the garbage we had to endure with the former in charge and getting a fine league finish in 2003, although the following season was anything but impressive, and then again that 4th place finish in 2005. Moyes has received loads of plaudits in his time here that you can't argue with.

 

The trophy thing, just frustrates, and the pity is, is that now you need big money and rich takeovers to win leagues in the EPL, whereas at a time when sides like us, or Nottingham Forest, Leeds United and Aston Villa in the recent past, won league titles, not because of rich owners or damn foreign investment, simply on the basis of having a damn fine team and especially with Clough, such a great manager who got results.

 

I've lost significant interest in soccer the last few years, money is killing the game, with damn stupid salaries, players on £200,000 a week, that's far too much for anyone, and clubs getting taken over and suddenly becoming all big and successful whereas before they had little history or only won a handful of honors. I'd rather be at our club with all those league titles and prizes, won simply by having a good manager and great players, than recent sides who have come to the fore and done well with investment or cash injections the last 10 years, and before that had little club history.

 

The fact of the matter is you don't always need big money to win anything, all you require is a good team ethic, a bit of luck and players going for it and being able to rise to the occasion when you need it. Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Portsmouth and Leicester have shown the way in recent years. Yes they have all been relegated since then, but mainly because they are seen as 'second division' sides to begin with, except maybe Blackburn and Everton is a top flight side all the way, there is quite a difference.

 

Bottom line is, we can argue it as the day is long, but I really want to see the club win something again, we won't be league champions again in our lifetimes most likely, but the FA or League Cup is achievable and Moyes doesn't always take that seriously. Think back to the shite game this year in the semi-final when we really could have won but the players gave in and it was such a similar story once again. How many times have we had a chance to beat some opposition we should or get near(er) to a trophy the last decade. It's just something frustrating.

 

You don't necessarily now require money to win a domestic cup trophy, we have seen that the last 10 or 12 years, although, true that the league today is a completely different story and only those with an abundance of cash or very affluent will invariably win the title. Damn pity it's come to that now.

[Sideliner]

in my opinion the root cause of our problem that the leauge can only be won by a few sides is the existance of the Champions Leauge - that makes it worth while for the few owners with deep pockets to spend zillions competing against each other - the step those teams take up in doing so, makes most of the other sides in the domestic leauge uncompetitive - those clubs would not have spent that money had it not been for the Champions leauge - then the difference between sides would have been less - Spanish , German and Italian leauges have the same prolem with a few elite clubs coming to a knife- fight with guns

[Oztoffee]

Sideliner has it right I reckon. Just looking at the games this week, if we ever get to the CL I'm afraid we would be uncompetitive. Even though Chelski lost quite badly I get the feeling that because of our lack of depth we wouldn't have done as well. Let's be honest, Real Madrid too would have torn us a new one and I can't see us anytime soon being in the Utd position where they could field a second XI because they are so dominant in their group.

CL.......be careful what you wish for!

[Avinalaff]

Sideliner has it right I reckon. Just looking at the games this week, if we ever get to the CL I'm afraid we would be uncompetitive. Even though Chelski lost quite badly I get the feeling that because of our lack of depth we wouldn't have done as well. Let's be honest, Real Madrid too would have torn us a new one and I can't see us anytime soon being in the Utd position where they could field a second XI because they are so dominant in their group.

CL.......be careful what you wish for!

 

If we qualify, we get a sizeable amount of money. We also get the opportunity to promote the club, and attract players, not to mention giving the fans European football. What's not to like? On our day, we could tear Madrid a new one.

[marcopaulo]

who gives a fuck if we wouldn;t get out of the group stages? if we got there the amount of money would really boost the side for the season after..the first rung of the ladder

[Lowensda]

who gives a fuck if we wouldn;t get out of the group stages? if we got there the amount of money would really boost the side for the season after..the first rung of the ladder

 

tick...

 

tick....

 

tick.....

 

BOOM.

[pete0]

We'd fly through it if we get half the luck Man U get when it comes to the draw. Anyhow we need to qualify first before worrying about the group stages, and if we do I'll be citing Porto for optimism.

[marcopaulo]

we wouldn't be in the first pot like man u

[Peter H]

Id like us to face teams like RM or Barca, inter, juve, ac, psg etc etc. You only get better by facing tough opponents. We tore Man Utd a new one not long ago. Its teams like West Brom, Reading, norwich etc that we should be frightened of.

 

In other words, if we get to CL, pray that we are in the lowest seeding group. Hope for 3 better teams. We might stand a chance then.

 

But lets not get ahead of ourselfs. I say we have about a 10 % chance of reaching CL. And thats being generous

Edited November 22, 2012 by Peter H

[Dalziel Kane]

I'd even go to say we have a better opportunity at around 15 or even 20 per cent, and that's unusual being optimistic

 

Goodison Park will be a tough venue for anyone, we do have some good players, one or two very good players, Moyes have gone more attack minded this calendar year, not so defensive strategies, we can score goals, and if Fellaini stays on after January as with one or two other names and bring in some reinforcements, who's to say we could not ideally qualify for a European Cup place. We have a decent chance, but it's too premature to say just yet, have had some disappointing results the last few weeks, but there will be every chance to redeem ourselves before end of season.