Our game when not in possession

[Avinalaff]

We look ok with the ball, but without it we look as though we've gone backwards a hundred years in my opinion.

 

Last night we seemed to stand off Fulham and allow them time to play. There was no close marking, and no pressure put on Fulham to win the ball back. It looked like we were standing at least 6ft away from the opposition.

 

Is this modern coaching, or is it poor defending?

 

We're fine in many areas, but as soon as we lose the ball, we look like a boxer who has just been caught on the chin, and all composure is gone.

[Romey 1878]

It's nothing new for us tbh. We'd lost that intensity to close down the opposition under Moyes as well, other than in a few games each season. I don't know why that's happened because it'd had always been a staple of our game and something we did very well.

[GoodisonRoad]

I've noticed this under Martinez and i hated it under Moyes but under Martinez it seems to be 10x worse!

 

If you give people time and space in this leauge they will punish you. Fact. I dont know why, but i think its a part of Martinez's "style". A big part of Barca's possesion game is that when they loose it they hunt the ball down in packs, Bayern did a similar thing. So i dont understand the "stand off" policy we seem to have taken up.

[Romey 1878]

I think a lot of it is to do with the type of midfielders we have. Our midfielders tend to like to mark space rather than "get stuck in". Just looks at Gibson. He's happy to roam around in front of the defence etc but you don't really see him going to the opposition player and putting a foot in. Fellaini would wait for the man to come to him as well. Although, once they got there he invariably dispossessed them. McCarthy doesn't look like a tackler either. Barry's a little more robust than the others but it's still not enough.

 

I think that's why Ten was so gutted we didn't go after Medel. He'd have crunched a few people and took no prisoner's.

[GoodisonRoad]

I think a lot of it is to do with the type of midfielders we have. Our midfielders tend to like to mark space rather than "get stuck in". Just looks at Gibson. He's happy to roam around in front of the defence etc but you don't really see him going to the opposition player and putting a foot in. Fellaini would wait for the man to come to him as well. Although, once they got there he invariably dispossessed them. McCarthy doesn't look like a tackler either. Barry's a little more robust than the others but it's still not enough.

 

I think that's why Ten was so gutted we didn't go after Medel. He'd have crunched a few people and took no prisoner's.

 

You wouldnt really associate anyone at Swansea who likes to get "stuck in though" or Barcelona or many spanish teams come to think of it. I dont think you need a tough tackler in your midfield in order not to allow the opposition time and space.

[Romey 1878]

 

You wouldnt really associate anyone at Swansea who likes to get "stuck in though" or Barcelona or many spanish teams come to think of it. I dont think you need a tough tackler in your midfield in order not to allow the opposition time and space.

 

They go towards the ball though, that pulls everyone else with them. We have midfielders who are happy to mark space and wait for the player and ball to come to them. Which gives the attacking players on the opposition an advantage because they're coming with momentum behind them meaning it's quite easy for them to go past our static midfielder.

[GoodisonRoad]

 

They go towards the ball though, that pulls everyone else with them. We have midfielders who are happy to mark space and wait for the player and ball to come to them. Which gives the attacking players on the opposition an advantage because they're coming with momentum behind them meaning it's quite easy for them to go past our static midfielder.

 

Oh i agree with you, but i dont think its because of the midfielders we have, i see it as more of a tactic than a characteristic if that makes sense? I think its something Martinez/the coaching staff needs to work on with them and quick because like i say, in this league you will get punished.

[weebittight]

I think we rode our luck in the Chelsea game but I don't think there was any lack of defensive intensity. It is still early in the season so it should not be surprising that some midfielders have lost their man a few times through fatigue - but since we now have a proper transition aspect to our play there will occasions when we will be exposed. I expect the players to adapt quickly and the fact that we are unbeaten and have had a couple of clean sheets suggests we are not as likely to be scored on as is being suggested.

[Bailey]

I think it was more noticeable yesterday because of who we had in midfield. Add that to the fact we looked shocking as soon as anyone made a run in behind made it a good thing we sat deep.

 

There was a big difference when Barry came on though. The intensity increased and him and McCarthy were excellent at winning the ball back higher up the pitch.

 

Martinez is all about zones though and his philosophy does allow the other side the ball while we sit back and wait for them to come at us. Not really something I like but it creates counter attacking opportunities which showed yesterday. Its ok to sit deeper as long as there is pressure on the ball when they reach a defenders zone, but too often that didnt happen.

[Bailey]

Oh and in response to OP, I thought that was typical Everton away from home at a beatable team under Moyes. Sit on a 1-0 lead only to throw it all away.

[Brett Angel]

We pressed them so well when wr were looking for the equalizer... It's a shame they didn't do that in those twenty wayward minutes.... That game was ours to dictate at what pace it went. Live and learn!

[Avinalaff]

United are standing the same distance away too, so maybe it's just modern coaching as I can't see Moyes' changing United players approach so quickly.

 

Anybody still playing coached footy ?

[weebittight]

United are standing the same distance away too, so maybe it's just modern coaching as I can't see Moyes' changing United players approach so quickly.

 

Anybody still playing coached footy ?

 

I'd have thought the instruction would be touch tight at set pieces or in the defensive third. If you are touch tight in central midfield it would negate transition and deny space when you retain the ball - as some have alluded to already.

 

I have coached at semi professional level in N.Ireland and at both youth and college level in the USA.

[Avinalaff]

 

I'd have thought the instruction would be touch tight at set pieces or in the defensive third. If you are touch tight in central midfield it would negate transition and deny space when you retain the ball - as some have alluded to already.

 

I have coached at semi professional level in N.Ireland and at both youth and college level in the USA.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I've been of the opinion that when you lose the ball, a good way to get it back is to press as a unit, forcing the ball to go back towards their keeper or forcing a misplaced pass. Liverpool used to be excellent at it when they had their tails up. I think Barcelona still do it like that too. So is it a new defensive strategy to stand off in the middle?

[Steve_E]

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I've been of the opinion that when you lose the ball, a good way to get it back is to press as a unit, forcing the ball to go back towards their keeper or forcing a misplaced pass. Liverpool used to be excellent at it when they had their tails up. I think Barcelona still do it like that too. So is it a new defensive strategy to stand off in the middle?

 

There can be lots of reasons. It's just very hard to press for 90 minutes fitness-wise and someone who isn't really in optimal match form like Gibson might struggle with it. So it's possible that the players just weren't able to fulfill the instructions. Or maybe they were instructed to sit back so their team moves up the pitch and we can exploit their centre backs' lack of speed.

 

Pressing is a relatively new strategy btw, Viktor Maslow is generally credited with first implementing it.

[marcus jones]

 

There can be lots of reasons. It's just very hard to press for 90 minutes fitness-wise and someone who isn't really in optimal match form like Gibson might struggle with it. So it's possible that the players just weren't able to fulfill the instructions. Or maybe they were instructed to sit back so their team moves up the pitch and we can exploit their centre backs' lack of speed.

 

Pressing is a relatively new strategy btw, Viktor Maslow is generally credited with first implementing it.

The old adage of you can only press up to the hour mark, it's damned hard to do that as a team that's why nearest, left and right players close down or press at one time, giving others a breather. Unless you are AC Milan who under Arrigo Sachi where the whole team pressed as one, only 30 yards from Van Basten to Franco Barresi. Really hard to play against a compressed team.

[weebittight]

Irish league teams <part-time football> used to employ a strategy away from home in Europe where they actually conceded the half and didn't press until the ball crossed the half-way line - case in point Crusaders narrow defeat to Liverpool at Anfield in 1976. The Crues played their normal game at home and lost 5-0.

 

Not sure if my friend was being sarcastic about my post but I am merely suggesting that for one reason or another it is hard to stick like glue to an opponent for ninety minutes.

[weebittight]

No issues last night re not being in their face when not in possession. Newcastle always likely to make a fight of it in the second half after a rollicking from the Slimy Toad <Pardew>. First goal was a wonder strike and the second down to Baines being over-matched in the air and Jagielka being beaten to the knock down.

[Romey 1878]

The pressing in the first half last night was immense. As soon as we'd lose the ball we were on them and usually won the ball back quickly or at least forced them back.

[Avinalaff]

I thought it was much better, and good to see Martinez takes my advice when he needs it.

 

Weebittight - not sure if you referred to myself, but my question was genuine, not sarcasm. We have a few coaches on here who help clear up the mysteries of managemental decisions occasionally, hence my request.

[Cornish Steve]

The pressing in the first half last night was immense. As soon as we'd lose the ball we were on them and usually won the ball back quickly or at least forced them back.

 

It was a little more subtle than that, I thought. We gave them space in their own half; however, the moment they ventured into our half, we pressed them incessantly.