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Bily; Where Should He Play


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#81 Bill

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 08:34

I'd like to see that team as well but i dont think we will, Neville will play ahead of Rodwell and Cahill will possibly play ahead of Bily.
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#82 nogs

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 08:41

Looking at the way we finished last season, I get the feeling Moyes is looking to play a much narrower 3 up front (striker and two wingers). Vic played a lot at the end of the season cutting in from the left and Billy did the same when he played by starting wide and then drifting inside. In fact Donovan also did it (but also worked down the wings a lot more than we have seen for a long time down the right!), just look at his goal against City. Furthermore Pienaar also cuts inside often, generally allowing Baines to overlap. I dont really think we play with 'wingers' and I dont think we will play like that especially with the signings of Gueye and Silva. From what I have read they seem like winger/strikers.

The problem Billy has compared to the likes of Pienaar or Donovan is that he doesnt beat his man. It doesnt have to be a problem if he then whips in a quality ball, but last season he looked backwards and put others under pressure. However, he also didnt really have an overlapping option to often and in one of his best games against Man City he played from the left with Baines raiding down the flank. With Coleman down that wing and getting involved it may well 'cover-up' one of his deficiencies?

When we attack it 'should' look a bit like this:

------------Jags-------------Heitinga
---------------------Felli
---------------Arteta-----Rodwell
Coleman----------------------------------Baines
----------Billy----------------Pienaar
----------------------Yak

This 'in theory' means we should have width provided by the fullbacks (and also the wingers if needed' as well as having numbers in the box, especially when you add one of the central midfielders getting forward as well. I dont think it would necessarily work like this with Cahill in the team as that makes us more of a two up top but hopefully you get where Im coming from.

Overall if we want Billy to play like a winger, then we have wasted 9mil, if we want him to cut inside (and provide width if necessary) then we could have a gem of a player a he has showed at times.


Yep, all day for me, looks quality on paper. There's even an argument to play Cahill up top in that team.

At the risk of straying off topic slightly, I personally think the centre forward as the role is traditionally understood is becoming redundant anyway - look at the world cup, apart from Klose, all the other top 'forwards' weren't playing down the centre, they were either pulling out wide or dropping deeper in what at times became highly fluid six-man midfields. I think we've got the kind of players who can make this kind of football work - mobile, disciplined, tactically aware with a fair amount of technical ability between them to boot. Cahill is brilliant at getting back, doing his job defensively and then making runs from deep to provide an outlet upfront - it worked when he had to play up top on his own a couple of seasons back coz of all the injuries. Anyway, just a thought... B)

Edited by nogs, 14 Jul 2010 - 08:42.

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#83 PFthetoffee

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 13:36

It could be that we play as follows:

Arteta Felli(when Fit) Bily

Cahill Pienaar

Saha/Yak/Beckford
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#84 jofanon

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 13:51

Peanuts is probably off and think Rodders we start to play more...

Howard
Neville Jags Johnny Baines
Arteta Felli Rodders Billy
Cahill
Saha
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#85 iggy

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 14:04

Based on his performances so far in the preseason, Moscow would suit me!
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#86 pehitt

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 16:11

i for 1 hope to see him get a regular run of games to truly prove weather he's hot or not..

DM did say it would take him a season to settle :)
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#87 Bailey

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Posted 14 Jul 2010 - 19:53

Yep, all day for me, looks quality on paper. There's even an argument to play Cahill up top in that team.

At the risk of straying off topic slightly, I personally think the centre forward as the role is traditionally understood is becoming redundant anyway - look at the world cup, apart from Klose, all the other top 'forwards' weren't playing down the centre, they were either pulling out wide or dropping deeper in what at times became highly fluid six-man midfields. I think we've got the kind of players who can make this kind of football work - mobile, disciplined, tactically aware with a fair amount of technical ability between them to boot. Cahill is brilliant at getting back, doing his job defensively and then making runs from deep to provide an outlet upfront - it worked when he had to play up top on his own a couple of seasons back coz of all the injuries. Anyway, just a thought... B)


I understand what your staying but I dont agree entirely... As you say most central strikers nowadays either drop back, pull out wide or run channels creating space in the middle for the more attacking midfielders to break into. Thats generally fine when we see a lot of the ball, as the movement creates room to exploit but I dont think it works as well when we dont have the ball that often, especially if like us you get the wide players retreating to help the FB's.

So what I would say about the Cahill 6man midfield is that it would work well when we are supposed to be on top and were able to control the ball and build from the back, but as soon as our defenders got pressured they would just hoof it to no-one, meaning we would never get the ball back!

The thing I think Moyes still hasnt quite cottoned on to completely using a 4-5-1 system is that we have to have someone supporting the striker, otherwise they lose it. Traditionally we had Cahill playing off or alongside a striker and when we had to go defensive he would drop way to deep and therefore we would invite more pressure on ourselves. Against Hull last year (and in the couple of games Cahill was injured) we changed it slightly and had Yakubu on his own, with both central midfielders (rodwell & Arteta) breaking very quickly to support him. It meant that when a ball came into Yakubu, he was able to simply lay it off and bring others into play as there was always someone available (except the 20ish mins after we scored the 1st). IMO too often we see the central striker all alone and we just hoof it up to him and he has f*** all chance of retaining possession. Apologies for going completely off topic!
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#88 nogs

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Posted 15 Jul 2010 - 12:49

I understand what your staying but I dont agree entirely... As you say most central strikers nowadays either drop back, pull out wide or run channels creating space in the middle for the more attacking midfielders to break into. Thats generally fine when we see a lot of the ball, as the movement creates room to exploit but I dont think it works as well when we dont have the ball that often, especially if like us you get the wide players retreating to help the FB's.

So what I would say about the Cahill 6man midfield is that it would work well when we are supposed to be on top and were able to control the ball and build from the back, but as soon as our defenders got pressured they would just hoof it to no-one, meaning we would never get the ball back!

The thing I think Moyes still hasnt quite cottoned on to completely using a 4-5-1 system is that we have to have someone supporting the striker, otherwise they lose it. Traditionally we had Cahill playing off or alongside a striker and when we had to go defensive he would drop way to deep and therefore we would invite more pressure on ourselves. Against Hull last year (and in the couple of games Cahill was injured) we changed it slightly and had Yakubu on his own, with both central midfielders (rodwell & Arteta) breaking very quickly to support him. It meant that when a ball came into Yakubu, he was able to simply lay it off and bring others into play as there was always someone available (except the 20ish mins after we scored the 1st). IMO too often we see the central striker all alone and we just hoof it up to him and he has f*** all chance of retaining possession. Apologies for going completely off topic!


Just to continue the off-topicness a while longer... Yeah I hadn't thought about the fact our centre backs are generally quite dreadful at distributing the ball. Surely there must be a way to train the big hoof out of them - electroshock maybe? Thing is, as you say, even if we do play a centre forward, the big hoof doesn't work anyway, so what formation we play becomes pretty obsolete.

Back on topic... Bily's best natural position is probably some kind of old-fashioned inside left, so maybe best way to accomodate him is in the 4-3-3 you drew out Bailey, just swapping him and Pienaar, or maybe a 4-1-4-1, something like this: (yeah I'm going back on the six-man midfield thing for now...)

----------------Howard

Coleman------Jags-----Heitinga------Baines

----------------Felli

Osman/Rodders---Arteta-----Bily/Cahill---Pienaar

----------------Saha
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#89 Bailey

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Posted 16 Jul 2010 - 21:45

Just to continue the off-topicness a while longer... Yeah I hadn't thought about the fact our centre backs are generally quite dreadful at distributing the ball. Surely there must be a way to train the big hoof out of them - electroshock maybe? Thing is, as you say, even if we do play a centre forward, the big hoof doesn't work anyway, so what formation we play becomes pretty obsolete.


Lol, the thing is they can play, just not when pressured. Having Felli as the Dm (and Heits CB)seemed to help them a lot as he always provided an outlet, which the other DM's we played didnt.

Although I agree the big hoof doesnt work, it helps to have someone up there pressuring them. While our hoofball tends to go to no-one, on occasion we manage to aim it somewhere near our own player and we can keep the ball, or at least make it harder for them to play it back, or even make a mistake (especially against good ole Titus Bramble!). With no-one up there, good players particularly will control it and keep the ball too easily IMO.
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#90 inertia8

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 07:11

I vote Heitinga to Saha as the best hoof last season, Saha took it down with his nose and then slotted it home ;)
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#91 Blue Boy

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 08:22

Or the one big Sil dropped just over Terry's head for King Louis to score.
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#92 Steve_E

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 12:34

I'd like us playing like this.

- - - - - - - Howard - - - - - - -
Coleman - Jags - Heitinga - Baines
- - - - - Felli - Arteta - - - - -
Anichebe - Rodders - Pienaar
- - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - -

With Bily on the bench, being able to come in for Arteta/Rodders/Pienaar.

Edited by Steve_E, 17 Jul 2010 - 12:35.

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#93 coxy051

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 13:02

I'd like us playing like this.

- - - - - - - Howard - - - - - - -
Coleman - Jags - Heitinga - Baines
- - - - - Felli - Arteta - - - - -
Anichebe - Rodders - Pienaar
- - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - -

With Bily on the bench, being able to come in for Arteta/Rodders/Pienaar.


i like that team.
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#94 Bill

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 16:58

- - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - -

Coleman - Jags - Heitinga - Baines

- - - - - - - - - Fellaini - - - - - - -

Pienaar -- Rodwell -- Arteta -- Maggie

- - - - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - - -

How about this for a bench....... Another team. ;)

- - - - - - - - - -Mucha - - - - - - -
Hibbert --- Yobo --- Distin --- Neville
Anichebe - Osman - Cahill - Bilyaletinov
- - - - - Yakubu - Beckford - - - - -
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#95 Bailey

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 22:15

- - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - -

Coleman - Jags - Heitinga - Baines

- - - - - - - - - Fellaini - - - - - - -

Pienaar -- Rodwell -- Arteta -- Maggie

- - - - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - - -

How about this for a bench....... Another team. ;)

- - - - - - - - - -Mucha - - - - - - -
Hibbert --- Yobo --- Distin --- Neville
Anichebe - Osman - Cahill - Bilyaletinov
- - - - - Yakubu - Beckford - - - - -


That certainly makes a change! At times we have barely had one team, and now if we have most fit we can have 2, with the likes of Silva, Duffy, JV and Baxter not even involved!
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#96 MikeO

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Posted 17 Jul 2010 - 22:24

That certainly makes a change! At times we have barely had one team...

03/04 (I have too much time on my hands :unsure: )....

Nigel Martyn
Steve Watson
Alan Stubbs
Joseph Yobo
Gary Naysmith
Leon Osman
Lee Carsley
Thomas Gravesen
Kevin Kilbane
Wayne Rooney
Duncan Ferguson


Richard Wright
Tony Hibbert
David Unsworth
David Weir
Alessandro Pistone
Niclas Alexandersson
Scot Gemmill
Tobias Linderoth
Lie Tie
Tomasz Radzinski
James McFadden


...looks like we've moved on to me (not that anyone is doubting that) :) .
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#97 iggy

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Posted 18 Jul 2010 - 09:31

- - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - -

Coleman - Jags - Heitinga - Baines

- - - - - - - - - Fellaini - - - - - - -

Pienaar -- Rodwell -- Arteta -- Maggie

- - - - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - - -

How about this for a bench....... Another team. ;)

- - - - - - - - - -Mucha - - - - - - -
Hibbert --- Yobo --- Distin --- Neville
Anichebe - Osman - Cahill - Bilyaletinov
- - - - - Yakubu - Beckford - - - - -


Ooh I do like that Bill, it won't happen just yet though........
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#98 Peter H

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Posted 21 Jul 2010 - 09:58

Based on his performances so far in the preseason, Moscow would suit me!


I agree, I had high hopes for him, but he hasnt performed at all. Hopefully he proves me wrong, or atleast gets a few good games in so that we can get some of our money back
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#99 Matt

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Posted 27 Apr 2011 - 08:47

http://www.evertonfc...ants-a-flourish

Ive tried supporting him but following that disgraceful "performance" on Saturday, im quite angry with the timing of this article.
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#100 johnny23

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Posted 28 Apr 2011 - 08:57

I think he should play behind the striker. But only when he is in shape/mood.
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#101 Bill

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Posted 28 Apr 2011 - 09:12

Personally i think he should go back and play in Russia. ;)
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#102 duncanmckenzieismagic

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Posted 28 Apr 2011 - 18:32

I think he should play behind the striker. But only when he is in shape/mood.



If you mean behind Vic, straight out of the door, then I agree :P
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#103 Matt

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Posted 29 Nov 2011 - 11:49

http://www.evertonfc...illy-s-attitude
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#104 Romey 1878

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Posted 29 Nov 2011 - 12:00

http://www.evertonfc...illy-s-attitude



Good man management by Moyes there, I was beginning to think he'd lost that.
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#105 Matt

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Posted 29 Nov 2011 - 12:10



Good man management by Moyes there, I was beginning to think he'd lost that.

exactly my thoughts too, though its only words at the moment, he needs to start again against Stoke. Hope this gives Bily something to spur him on rather than make him complacent.
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#106 formby

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Posted 29 Nov 2011 - 12:56

'Bilyaletdinov sometimes doesn’t get enough credit'.

Certainly on this board, he doesn't.

I like him. Always have. Nice article. Nice lad. If only Moyes would play him in the right place, maybe he'd see more of what he wants.
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#107 blueboy4eva

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Posted 29 Nov 2011 - 15:25

he would be quality player behind the striker as he is skillful but not fast,

Edited by blueboy4eva, 29 Nov 2011 - 15:39.

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#108 Bailey

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Posted 29 Nov 2011 - 18:32

exactly my thoughts too, though its only words at the moment, he needs to start again against Stoke. Hope this gives Bily something to spur him on rather than make him complacent.


This.
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#109 Matt

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 15:54

seems hes been playing in the bedroom well enough:

http://p.twimg.com/A...A3sng.jpg:large
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#110 Zoo

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 10:19

When was his baby born? Because if it's been born after he's left Everton then it's nice to see he's still acknowledging us by putting his baby in an Everton shirt. He does seem like a sound bloke and I like Billy a lot - all the best for him and his family :)
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