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    Andrei Kanchelskis

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  1. There are, from recollection, two words for hell in the Bible - one is Sheol, one is Hades. One is the place of the dead, the other refers to Gehenna which was the physical rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. Hell in an everlasting damnation sense comes from this. The fires of Gehenna are the personification (or, more properly, a metaphor) of the fires of hell, not the literal hell. Jesus speaks about it most clearly in Mark 9.
  2. I realise this comment was probably directed at an individual. However, much of the Muslim world condones (and practises) capital punishment, so I'm not sure the word 'scum' is quite right, however much we vehemently disagree with the practice.
  3. Crikey - I overlooked Howard! What was I thinking?! I do like Joe, though - he can be assistant.
  4. Good shout on Thomas - great little player. Same team for me but with Martyn instead of Pickford and Watson instead of Lescott. Manager: Joe Royle
  5. Interesting article from The New Statesman about how bad Corbyn was (written by a Labour MP). https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour-leadership-race/2020/03/labours-mess-predictable-result-leader-and-philosophy-hated
  6. Yes, some dodgy goalkeeping on both sides there. Was West injured or dropped? Read he had a howler in the previous round, which is why Rankin was in? Everton and BMG were probably two of the best three in the tournament so it was deflating we couldn't get past Panathinaikos in the next round. Catterick was sure the referee was bought, though, and Brian Glanville wrote that he outrageously favoured them.
  7. German Bundesliga resumes tomorrow, for better or worse. A bit of a trip down Memory Lane for me as I can watch Borussia Monchengladbach at Eintracht Frankfurt. I was a massive fan of BMG during the seventies. They had an amazing team and produced some world class players (Netzer, Bonhof, Matthaus, Heynckes, Effenberg, to name a few). I looked back at some of my old Shoot magazines from the 70s (a good way of keeping up with what was going on in Europe and a good Geography lesson, too - lost count of the amount of times a teacher would ask if anyone knew where Nantes or Ostrava or Tblisi was, and I knew them from the football map!) to refresh my memory. They played Everton in the European Cup in 1970, I think (Everton won on penalties, I believe - the first ever shootout). Probably best known in this country for losing to Liverpool in the 77 European Cup Final. They were favourites going into it but had injuries and played poorly. It wasn't just Everton that came unstuck in Finals against Liverpool. Anyway, will watch on Saturday and will cheer them on. If you don't know much about them, worth checking them out on YouTube. They had a brilliant team.
  8. Thank you for making it as simple as possible. We do indeed to be at cross purposes. I am talking about you comparing Tory austerity to Nazism and you are asking me to justify why I don't think half the population are scumbags and morons. To answer your question first. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and engage in positive discourse - there are those I vehemently disagree with over a whole range of issues, but who are very far from being morons and scumbags. Amongst this fraternity are people of varying religious persuasions, political persuasions, those with a social axe to grind, and those with none. I believe they extend the same largesse and courtesy to me when I speak to them. We debate, we talk, we disagree, we agree. I understand that people vote Tory for many different reasons and amongst them may have been those who warned about austerity, just as there may have been amongst them 'scumbags and morons' who actively pursued the policy with little regard for the consequences. To say that everyone who votes Tory is a 'scumbag and a moron', however, is not born out in my experience. With you it maybe, I guess. What I am pretty sure about is that 50% of the population are not morons and scumbags. It is dismissive and reductive and the worst kind of pigeon-holing. As I don't vote Tory, it would be wrong of me to hazard what policies they had that outweighed the misery austerity was going to inflict, so I can't really answer that. My question to you was a simple one, I thought. Namely, does this wretched austerity that has inflicted misery and cut short lives fall short of the Nazi's genocide campaign and Government complicity in murders in NI or the war crimes of the Gulf war. I would say it does.
  9. Not sure if you're being deliberately abstruse. We appear to be going round in circles. To simplify: austerity has been bad for the country - it has resulted in deaths and a lot of hardship. Like many people, I disagreed with it. As I mentioned in a previous post, governments should rightly be held to account. This government should be held to account (on austerity, the pandemic, anything you want to throw at them if you think there is a case to answer). I think their policy was misguided and reflected a party out of touch and uncaring. I do not think this was the same as the Nazi war machine committing genocide, though, nor do I think it shows Government complicity in murder (as happened in Northern Ireland) or war crimes (Gulf War). You obviously feel differently and that is your right. Saying that I don't believe 50% of the population to be scumbags or morons, just because you think so, does not make me any particular political persuasion. I have never ever voted Tory. Very hard to reconcile veganism / animal rights and welfare with a party that supported fox hunting and wanted to bring it back. Ditto, their policies on sustainability and the environment.
  10. I think the relevance is abundantly clear - there have been examples in the past when the British state has been complicit in the murder of its own citizens. I do not think Tory austerity cuts (however loathsome) amount to this (certainly the legal definition or murder). You may have seen documents to the contrary; I have not. I am not a Tory and have never voted for them, so you're directing your questions at the wrong person. I disagreed with austerity. I believe it was you who compared Tories to Nazis in this thread, so the point about going 'down the route' is hypocritical. I don't believe you covered any bases. If you wish to open a separate thread on animal rights, happy to engage and debate. The point about the Iraq War (and NI) is that Labour (as well as the Conservatives) have been complicit in war crimes. It's across the political spectrum, not just Tories.
  11. It's very relevant. In Northern Ireland, the British Government (Labour and Conservative) was complicit in the sectarian murders of its own citizens. Tory austerity cuts fall well short of this - unless you have access to government papers to the contrary. The pluses and minuses comment about veganism avoids the central issue of animal welfare and the eating of meat. I feel as strongly about it as you do about the Tory Govt / austerity cuts. I don't go calling people who eat meat morons and scumbags. One of the most egregious examples of state crime was the war in Iraq - sanctioned by Labour. Governments are guilty of lots of things and should rightly be held to account.
  12. There are many moral and ethical issues which are so divisive that really there is no right and wrong - despite either side claiming there is. It's just differing opinions. In those instances, you can't be aware your thoughts are bad or that your thoughts are good. I think if you vote Conservative or you vote Labour, or Lib Dem, or Green, you have a reason for doing so, and I'm guessing most aren't scumbags or morons (certainly not 50% of the population), despite many of the policies having dire outcomes. They may be voting for purely selfish reasons, though. I could argue that you have flawed ethics if you eat meat (I am vegan) but I would not call you a scumbag or a moron for doing so, despite my very strong personal opinion about it. I was brought up In Northern Ireland in the seventies, where really terrible things happened. I was asked to straddle the divide between Protestants and Catholics when I belonged to neither group. The only solution to that conflict was tolerance and acceptance. Any schism between Conservative and Labour ideology is just polite conversation compared to the events of that time and to other brutal conflicts round the world.
  13. Yes, I do think we should be more understanding of the way people think. You have just dismissed half the country as scumbags and morons, presumably because they don't think like you. I'm not sure whether you really think that, but I can't see it's a helpful opinion. The extreme examples you gave would not get tolerance and acceptance - I am sure there are hundreds of other crimes and misdemeanours which would be equally reprehensible. I understood Chach's comment to have a more general application - political discourse, social discourse - and welcomed it.
  14. Couldn't agree more - well put!
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