MC11

This season, he's transformed the midfield - bringing in McCarthy, Barry, and Barkley (from being the outcast) - and acquired a long-term backup goalie. In the summer, I can see him transforming our aging defence - like it or not, Jagielka and Distin are up there in years. The really interesting moves will be up-front.

 

That long term backup goalie has major question marks over his head. He does not build confidence in me. If he plays away at Arsenal in the cup he'll have to play out of his skin because he isn't a scratch on Howard.

Traore looked terrible

I don't think that's true at all. We played some fantastic football under Moyes and I'm not just talking about the odd game here and there either. Some people would have you believe he just had us playing hoofball but IMO they are talking out of their arses.

That said I do firmly believe Martinez has us playing better football and we have definitely progressed under him although sometimes I just wish we had a plan B

Are we anywhere nearer the top 4? Probably not and with the number of loan players we have got I have absolutely no idea what the side is going to look like next year

Spot on Duncan.

it was the constant so close yet so far ]under Moyes that finally got my goat that became synonymous with our club. It was and is a mental blocker. Martinez has made great strides this season but as he has said it's building blocks. The plan B will come, I just think it will take at least one more season.

 

My only concern right now is when he has to evolve our defence. He has that stellar back line and solidity right now, no questions on the attack but the defense concerns me.

And that is match point!

 

It's absolute torture missing out! At least if you're a mid table side you know what you're getting and anything else is a bonus.

 

Being the best of the rest is so painful!

Would be great to get a win but will be very tough. Don't want to see Traore start.

2-1 Chelsea

 

Naismith

Carsley and Gravesen (until he was loaned back) wernt Moyes signings.

 

Last season we played some really good stuff. Villa away.

Out of all the squad players who stepped in. Oviedo has looked the best.

Chelsea have won 3 titles alone. 4 FA Cups, 2 League Cups, 1 Chàmpions League and 1 Europa League. Since being funded. Numerous finals, second place finishes. Consistent Champions League qualification.

 

City will no doubt follow suit.

 

The point is we don't even need half the investment.

But then like I said what do you expect us to do about it? All we can do is live within our means, grow the commercial side of the business, develop through youth, hopefully gain a top 4 place and then build on that. I see where your frustration lies, but as these are all things outside of our control all we can do is try to support the team in a positive manner? I just don't see the point in being negative when those are facts that we just can't change.

How long can we roll along without stepping back though. How long can managers like Moyes and Martinez come in and keep us knocking on the champions league door. Where is the next level coming from. There is no money.

Cotto, If you want Everton Football Club to have some investment, please go out and find it. It sounds as if you'd rather support Chelsea or City. You clearly don't believe in our players, manager, chairman or board. You are in a fantasy world, waiting for someone to buy us out. What's the point in supporting Everton if you AREN'T SUPPORTING EVERTON? I'm sure the team would love to hear your halftime speech: "Alright, lads. You're giving 'em your best. That's excellent. But, sadly, none of you are good enough. I don't believe you will win this one. Your names and price tags just aren't big enough. Bill hasn't gotten us any investment yet, so we still don't have Messi. It's not really worth trying today or next week. It just won't happen for us until we get some cash in the coffers."

Ii go the game every week . I've had a season ticket for 12 years. How is that not supporting Everton? I believe in the manager, I believe in 11 or so players. Our first 11 is good enough to get in the top 4 continuously the squad isn't though.

 

I don't believe in the board. I don't believe they can take us to the next level. There's nothing wrong with a supporter voicing reality and wanting more.

 

We don't need millions upon millions we need the ability to add two or three quality players to the squad each season. We haven't got the money to do it. If you can't see it you are blind.

 

Do you truly believe Martinez will continuously get us in the champions league under this board? If you do your living in a fantasy world. If you don't then you must be happy to float along with 5th and 6th place finishes.

 

I also find it highly offensive you questioning my support of my "local" team. It seems the Americans on here like to question peoples support. It's not the first time it's happened.

 

I'll tell you now. I was born an Evertonian. My whole family are Evertonians, we go to as many games as our lives let us. We continuously put money into the club via season tickets, Everton attire purchases and match day programmes, drinks, food etc etc.

 

If you're based in America I doubt you do as much as me. I also have an opinion that it probably doesn't matter as much to you as it does to me. Just like me supporting the lakers but not being emotionally involved with them. But please don't question my support of the club, it's offensive

Can't force someone to invest though? I don't get being negative regarding something that's outside of the chairman's and the manager's control? They can only work within the financial constraints of the club. Roberto is convinced we can make top 4 without a sugar daddy, and I'm certain it will be entertaining to watch him try.

But that's the whole point isn't it. Until someone with money buys us out I just can't see us doing any better than we are.

 

There is now 7 teams battling it out for 4 places. 6 of them are financially stronger than us.

You aren't reading my posts clearly - its not the "money" aspect I am talking about, spend £100m on one player - thats absolutely fine. To go and spend £100m on 6 players and expect results is just madness.

 

Teams are made over time not just transfer windows. Additions must be integrated. Its not always about collecting the best player in every position.

 

You never seen the Everton team of 84-85... individually player by player other clubs would have had more valuable teams. We had aging players in Gray and Reid, great youth graduates like Steven, Stevens, Ratcliffe, some bargains like Bracewell, Sheedy - mixed in they were formidable and would be a match for any team of any british era.

 

To make my example count...we signed Lineker, a quality striker, worth a fair few bob, top goalscorer but he changed the dynamic of the team - we weren't as good or harmonious.

It's not though is it....

 

Chelsea in 04/05 bought 8 players in and got rid 14. Won the league.

 

City in 11/12 bought 6 players in and got rid of 8. Won the league.

 

Massive changes and a league title in the same season.

I think everyone on this forum wants success and trophies. But how do you propose the club goes about things any different to what they are already doing? That's what I don't understand

"Same old Everton" pretty much sums it up. We will always be falling short without financial investment.

We are a lot better than we were than when Moyes was in charge. Moyes did a lot for Everton and transformed our team to what it is today but with Moyes in charge we were never consistent enough for my liking....

 

When Moyes was in charge there were games where we played absolutely brilliant, then there were a lot also where we played absolute garbage. Hoofing the ball up field and didn't look like scoring....

 

With Martinez it seems as though even if we do lose a game, draw or win we are playing the same football week in week out. Possession, passing and pressing football. Now when I get frustrated it isn't because we are playing rubbish and hoofing the ball it is the fact we can't get the ball in the back of the net when having possession....

We played some great stuff under Moyes and I've witnessed some crap this season too. Let's be honest It hasn't all been wonderful but you can't expect it week in week out.

Can I ask you a serious question, not meant as an insult or an attack? If what you're saying is correct, then surely we are doing fantastic against the financial muscle of at least 6 teams who spend massively more than us. So why the negativity? Surely you should be praising Everton at every opportunity for keeping close to the big spenders, if you believe that big spending is the only route to success?

It's a decent achievement. But it's not success though is it. I want us to win trophy a. Be competing at the very very top of the league. Finishing 5th, 6th, 7th just isn't success.

Barcelona have arguably the best youth system in the world. That's their core. They have also spent numerous 7 figure fees on players.

 

Bayern Munich spent £50m this season on two players alone. They have also spent various 7 figure fees on players over recent seasons. Their youth system has brought through the likes of Kroos and Sweinsteiger.

 

They are both also the biggest clubs in their league and have been for a long long time.

 

Chelsea and City on the other hand have only just started winning things and competing regularly through financial muscle. If you're going to compare the four clubs then it's money that's brought City and Chelsea in the same bracket as those two clubs. Nothing else.

 

The fact that it's brought them both league titles suggests that money will give you a better finish than 4th place. Which is all a we're "currently" hoping for from Everton. Money will give us a much better platform to compete year in year out.

 

The way things are going we will always be hovering below unless we get 3-4 top quality youth players through or we spent big money on top players.

 

This is why I don't see the bigger picture of building a better squad. To do so you need big money.

Disagree all you like. Its been said many times, throwing money and buying 5-6 players with egos upsets the apple cart. Teams are built, not thrown together. Look at Liverpool when they bought diouf, salif diou etc - it doesn't work, the alpha male clashes create tension.

Of course it works. Look at Chelsea and City. Liverpool have picked up cups along the way. Been in numerous finals.

 

Chelsea and City both bought 5-6 players in title winning seasons.

You can throw £100m at the squad and buy 5 players - it doesn't make it the right thing to do, unless something is broken - i.e the side that Moyes inherited then wholesale changes don't often work.

 

Look at Spurs this year, Man City a few years back, [\b]Sunderland nearly every window. Side need to move into their next image, not jump.

 

Thats where I have been impressed with Martinez, he has brought different styles of player to what we have been used to - comfortable on the ball.

 

I will say this right now IF MARTINEZ WAS HIRED TO REPLACE SAF - UNITED WOULD BE TOP OF THE LEAGUE NOW.

 

He would have taken McCarthy and partnered him with Carrick, had Rooney behind RVP, utilised Kagawa, and basically had them playing football.

Sorry but I completely disagree.

 

Look where City are now. Spurs are still in with a chance of CL football. They are rolling sides over under Sherwood. Look at their recent league form to ours. Look what financial injection done to Chelsea.

 

Money matters no matter how you paint it. Another example if money mattering is arsenal. They ain't won a dime since 2006 because they hadn't spent. It's only this season they splashed out on Ozil.

Well, that's took the shine off that..........£180,000 a week take home, that's crap.

 

Give it all up Wayne, come and WORK on a building site and take home £180 a week.

Just saying like, he's worth most of that for the money he brings into the club for just being Rooney.

 

Also the £120,000 tax bill nearly halfs the 300k figure.

 

You're missing my point, this season has been about progression, the fact the players have taken so well and quickly to a new manager who has radically changed our playing style is a success, as I said the timings of injuries to key players has been unlucky, but I do think with time and a more in depth squad (Which takes time, you can't expect a manager to bring in ALL the players he wants in 2 windows) we will be in a stronger position to sustain a champions league push.

 

 

 

Back to McCarthy, you don't have to score goals, beat people or get assists to be a good player, his work rate is unreal and without him Coleman/Baines/Barkley would not be able to break forward as much as they do, he is constantly providing cover and protection to the back 4.

See the problem I have with the bold is this....

 

How can we expect to have consistent champions league finishes if we don't have a pot to piss in?

 

It's all well and good saying he needs time to build his own squad but unfortunately I don't see him having enough money to build a squad capable of consistent top 4 finishes. I just see that as fact.

 

The ability to finish in those top 4 positions "this" season will give us a much better platform to build on.

 

It's been the same for a long time. We just haven't been quite good enough to break in (apart from a one of in 04/05, Without the financial muscle. I can't see us becoming a "consistant" top 4 team and it's hard to see us breaking the top 4 to be honest. This season is probably the best opportunity we have. However it's looking grimmer than ever in league standings. We've got a lot of catching up to do.

 

I'm looking at reality rather than the "bigger picture"

Did you even read the article? It doesn't say they're sorting out a loan deal at all. It says they're coming to speak to us about his development because they want him back next season.

He is nowhere near ready for Barcelona.

 

Watching them play against City all their players are massively confident in retention of the ball. Deulofeu gives it away far too much. He needs another couple of years elsewhere in my opinion. Whether that be Everton or another club.

 

No. And I got to be in that category

 

Ferguson was a useful player for sure, provided some memorable moments and scored some pivotal goals, but can't subscribe to the idea that the player warrants legendary status. This appears to be going over old ground in saying the player doesn't deserve to be held in such high regard as names such as Lawton ,Ratcliffe, Southall and Hickson for example.

 

could have been so much better for the player, but for all other issues aside (including his decision to divorce himself from the Scots national side) he left a lasting impression on supporters here and over time became something of a fan favorite, but does not warrant a place with a very select few from this clubs history that are deserving of legendary status. Was unable to operate the above link but good news for the individual if it's indeed working in a first team coach capacity.

Ferguson played for Everton in one of its darkest periods ever.

 

I'm sure if he was part of the 85 team he would be down as a legend.

Any reason for this, its saying...toffetalk cant be found on a blank white screen

 

 

New to this site so I don't know anyone or how people are, i've just come on here during work time hoping to have discussions with some proper Everton fans. Winds me up how much doom and gloom goes along with being an Everton fan, you get it at the match all the time people moaning because a player misplaces a pass or we draw with a team a few places below us and its the end of the world. This season has been a good season whether we finish 1st or 11th, we have a new manager that plays football the right way and knows how to make posiitive substitutions, we have been unlucky with timing of injurys but you can't expect any new manager to come in and perform miracles immediately! Its a working progress and we are definitely moving in the right direction, the McCarthy shout was beyond deluded, the lad has been brilliant. I'm looking forward to the next few years under Bobby and I think all Everton fans should.

If we finish 11th we'll have had a good season. Lmao. Ok.

 

RE McCarthy. He's a decent enough midfielder, but he lacks any real creativity, goal threat etc. his passes are always simple. So sometimes I just see him as a spare man.

 

Playing with two sitters doesn't help going forward IMO unless you have at least one who can operate in both areas of the pitch. No doubt if he was a lone sitter I wouldn't expect any attacking threat from him.