MC11

I think Martinez has done a good job at sustaining what Moyes left. Albeit a better brand of football. But the same cracks are there. They were just covered up for 5 months.

You dont need to clear anything up for me. It's all crystal clear for me.

I think you need to clear it up for yourself.

There's a difference between your desired expectations and the expectation of a new manager coming in and guessing how he will perform.

 

It's crystal, yes.

That last bit is bang on. We are battling with teams who have spent absolute fuckin fortunes to get where they are...and have bigger commercial resources.

Thats not to say I think it cant happen, because it defo can with the right set up and consistent approach. But it takes just a bit longer.

We are not quite starting again. We are looking to a highly regarded man to build on a solid foundation built over 10 years. The next level wont come after just 6 months.

From everything I've read and listened to Martinez seems happy to role with the current financial status. Use of the loan market seems to be a big incentive of his. This all points to him going with the flow under the current board. A bit like a puppet.

 

So I just don't see how it gets better over a longer period of time? There's going to be no money again. Even if we do spend a bit in the summer. Come the following summer we'll be scratching our arses for funds again. It's a vicious circle.

I think I sense an agenda here...

What agenda do you sense?

Hang on, earlier on you said you 'had no expectations at all, I didnt know what to expect to be honest'...now you say you always expected CL football? Thats some turnaround in a few hours. Honestly, I aint trying to catch you out here, just looking for some honesty and rational thinking. So, lets assume you did always expect CL qualification, what is your reasoning as to why we would go from a team in 6th-8th to at least 4th? Baring in mind our net transfer spend over the last3, 5 & 10 years is always a minus figure?

And your statement above is terribly contradictory.

Lets also be honest. Of course Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes...Moyes was here for 10 years, Martinez has been here for 6 bloody months!!!! What the hell are people expecting?!!!

I cant believe how much a good start to the season has created such a deluded expectation.

As for Lukaku...I'll judge him at the end of the season. He has a number of games to make an impact. I hope for our sake, he does. But then his price will rocket (deja'vu!!!). The lad has answered questions, rather than shoot his mouth. Its the typical reaction we have to someone being honest.

I'll clear it up for you..

 

I've always expected this side to press for top 4. Let's have it straight. The side finished 6th last season and the squad was improved. Dead wood such as Hitzlsperger and Neville were gone. Young blood was given an opportunity.

 

On the flip side I didn't have a clue which way the season was going to go as this was a new manager, probably like 90% of fans we didn't know what to expect it could have gone either way. But in terms of what I'd see as a good season would be Champions League football. That didn't change.

Wrong thread

His source 'was' THT mate.

Not really interested in any of them to be fair. You can have all the rumours you want but until it's booted up and on the pitch it's just rumours.

Both Charlatans IMO.

 

I think LCAB's source is big Nev.

 

They get very little correct.

 

That THT made me laugh last month. He tweeted something along the lines of knowing Traore and Mcgeady would come in weeks before but was told not to say nothing. Comical.

To back up my last point... After 25 games with 45 points we would have been in joint 4th and only 1 point behind 3rd (in the 2012/13 season).

To back up my last point... After 25 games with 45 points we would have been in joint 4th and only 1 point behind 3rd (in the 2012/13 season).

Why are you basing your opinion on previous seasons? It's irrelevant. This is the season, this is the points tally and we are 6th. 8 points of 4th. It doesn't matter about previous seasons.

Amen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree with both of you. I also love the fact that people expect a manager and his players to being able to compete in the CL without any collective European football under competitive conditions. Granted a lot of the players have been based outside the UK but the Europa League is also a good place to start and if we managed to get through to the latter stages, we could potentially come up against some of the best European sides.

 

 

 

In the last two seasons (unless stated otherwise)

 

Lukaku 55 games - 26 goals = 0.47

Giroud 57 games - 21 goals = 0.37

Rooney 64 games - 27 goals = 0.42

RVP 52 games - 36 goals = 0.69

Drogba (last 2 seasons at Chelsea) 81 games - 26 goals = 0.32

Torres 88 games - 30 goals = 0.34

Adebayor 69 games - 30 goals = 0.43

Defoe 65 games - 25 goals = 0.38

 

Aside from the 3 stand out Premier League strikers in RVP and Sturridge/Suarez, Lukaku's record is as good as any other striker's in the premiership.

 

Lukaku runs his arse off game in game out. Really hard nut busting sprints, especially early in a game, often getting kicked to shit and also more recently without the real service he thrives on (I dont agree with the previous Barkley comments, I think its all of the injuries combined as the stand ins havent had an awful lot of service either). The notion that Lukaku doesnt create his own opportunities is an absolute fallacy, just watch his goals back from the last two seasons and you will see why. His link up play is also pretty good (again watch his goals and look at how many he is involved in the build up) and whilst I think his touch is average for a Premier League striker it is certainly no worse.

You're basing his goal tally on 2 seasons. I'm basing it on the business end - for us! It's ok but it's nowhere near prolific and could be a lot better.

 

I also don't agree he runs his socks off. There has been many a game this season where he has been crap. His link up play is nothing like you describe it's crap.

I keep hearing this "we'll get there in the end, doesn't happen over night, Rome wasn't built in a day" I've been hearing the same shite for 12 years.

Cotto...so you had no expectations at all? But now that we are sat comfortably in 6th with a game in hand, its not good enough?! And whats all this 'grow a set ffs' stuff about?! As you can see from the responses, your views are thankfully in the minority...again. But at least you stirred up some convo, it was starting to go a bit stale!!

Honestly, I cant believe fans exsist who wouldnt want us in the europa. Unbelievable. Spoke about this in another thread.

And as for the illusion that the CL will automatically bring in a load of cash...it bloody doesnt!!! Again, have spoke about this in another thread.

I understand there is a bit of natural frustration that we arent sat in 4th, having been there for a short while, but you have to remember...no one expected 4th this season...and to get it we have to out gun some big spenders.

We'll get there eventually. ..but we'll do it the Everton way. And fans will have to be patient and appreciate the Everton way will become the only way.

The expectations from me have always been the same "Champions League qualification".

 

The squad was improved, dead wood shipped out and decent younger talent brought in. So I suppose I expected more once I'd seem what was on the books. The first 3 games where shite. I remember West Brom at home and thinking this is going to be a long season.

 

At present Martinez hasn't eclipsed Moyes for me. It's all very similar, except the football seems to be a lot better. That's not to say we didn't play good stuff under Moyes.

Lukaku seems to be under a 2:1 striker which is ok but not good enough for top 4. You need someone with a better ratio. At least 20-25 goals a season leading the line.

 

I find him more than not "static", very lethargic. Very rare you see him make opportunity for himself. His link up play is non existant. His touch and passing ability is atrocious. I would not be putting a £20m egg towards that basket.

He won't make it here. Sold on a permanent in the summer. Nailed. Championship/League One ability.

Adebuyor also had Eriksson feeding him. Its been pointed out a few times, since Barkley stopped playing, Lukaku got no service.

 

That's tripe mate. How many assists has Eriksen given Adebayor? How many has Barkley give Lukaku. Lukaku just isn't all that!

This thread makes

 

You complain that we don't have a Sturridge, Suarez or Adebayor (I do not know why you put Adebayor in the equation, great talent but boy is he one lazy footballer). I would rather Lukaku than Adebayor. Lukaku always gives it his all when I see him play.

 

Adebayor has 8 goals in 10 games. Lukaku has 9 in over 20. Fucking huge difference.

 

How on earth can you say Lukaku gives it his all. I've seen him stink the place out numerous times this season!

But how does it get better with no additional transfer funds via champions League qualification? Who's to say we will have a substantial amount of cash available in the summer?

 

The squad needs adding to with quality to oversee future injury problems. It's the same old scenario.

 

The problem we have is that our direct challenges for 4th and 5th both took 3points of us and are picking up points and starting to open a gap. It's so tight you can not afford to open 5 point gaps upon ourselves.

 

I think we have to go for the cup now. 4th is looking far fetched. Without 10 wins from the remaining 13. I doubt we can do it. Can't see Liverpool getting beat more than twice.

What an absolute load of fat hairy lobsided flakey smelly bollocks.

Miguel Cotto....you should be ashamed of using a legends name on any forum. What are you doin?!!!

See, a few threads ago I think it was Romey who questioned if I dont like others having an opinion. I said...of course I do, but not when the opinion is wide of reality...this is a prime example of the mingeflap material that gets right up my arse crack (or as I call it, 'Anfield').

Oi, Cotto, I asked you on another topic what your start of seasons expectations were? You didnt answer, so have another go. Be honest now.

Because at the start of the season, I remember thinkin that if we push for 5th, it would be a goodun. Finishin 6th wouldnt be a bad gig. The only thing that has surprised me so far is how much Utd have fell off.

"I will love it, just love it, if we beat them"

To answer the question, my expectations at the start of this season did not exist. I didn't know what to expect to be honest.

 

However the form and play by December had me thinking a top 4 minimum was very very achievable. However the injuries hit and our squad looks paper thin once again. Top performers aren't performing and the same old Evertonians fall back on... "It's his first season, I wasn't expecting much" grow a set FFS.

 

If we finish 6th again it's nothing but stagnation and Moyes achieved it with players that aren't as talented!

I've quoted an example several times. Using the league names as they are today, Nottm Forest finished third in the Championship; next year, they won the Premier League; and the next year they won the Champions League. They did all that without a recognized "star". They were just a superb team with a superb manager. Sadly, they did not have a long-term strategy, so they slid back down. It is possible for teams to win without deep pockets. In five years' time, we'll be discussing just that on these forums!

Completely different kettle of fish these days. Money matters. Look at City's climb and Chelsea's. Comparing something that happened 30 years ago to the modern game just doesn't add up.

Because, in the January window, you can get only discards, the unwanted, and the way over-priced. It would be sheer stupidity to blow money in such a way.

 

We don't lack strikers. We lack squad depth, which means that injuries affect us more than most. It's pie in the sky to think that Everton could bring on board a striker costing £20m+. I'd be very surprised if it happens. Just look who we do have today: Barkley, for example, is touted as a £50m player, but we didn't pay that much for him. This is reality.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't want a £20m+ striker. Their egos alone often ruin a team. Of far more value is a well-oiled machine of a team that plays as a unit and where the team value is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

"How do I get rich, Mr. Rockefeller?" The answer he gave is very relevant: "Slowly." It takes vision and persistence and an ability to overcome temporary setbacks.

Barkley is a youth player that comes along every 10 years comparing his value and how much we spent on him is ridiculous. We paid nothing for him.

 

Saying you wouldn't want a £20m+ striker is ridiculous. When was the last time someone won the league without a £20m striker?

Watch him without the ball, the hallmark of a great player is what they do without it. He is as close to a Roy Keane replacement that United could have got in terms if where he will be in a year or so.

But keane played on his own. We have two sitters and Barry for me is the busier of the two, he's a much more important cog.

 

I just haven't been completely convinced yet. It's all very simple and ineffective for me.

To be honest it's probably just the frustrations of the other sides rolling on whilst we have been very stale for weeks compared to the first half of the season.

 

Unfortunately this is the business end and I'm probably trying to see where it's going wrong. Without Barkley ticking over we lack a link between midfield and striker.

 

We just haven't been great. It's all good saying the teams playing good football but it's achievement that matter and finishing 6th again is just stagnation.

 

I really thought we'd mix it up right until the very end. It's looking a long way off now. That's basing it on the performances of the turn of the year. We just haven't been convincing. It's worrying.

Not just goals Duncan, he lacks creativity, can't beat a man. Seems to drop in and out of games.

 

You look at Barry who's always involved. Always looking for the ball. Always looking to pass forward.

 

I'm just not convinced by him. Btw Reid is before my time.

I just don't feel McCarthy, maybe I'm wrong because a lot of Blues like him. But I don't think he is a special player. He's not an important cog IMO. His work seems to be simple and very little cutting edge about it.

At the start of the season I'd have snapped your arm off if you offered me 6th under a new manager (who's experience to date was being relegation fodder with Wigan). United & Moyes have shown how hard it can be to make a change so if you think that coming 6th is 'same old Everton' you need to find another team.

 

We are doing exceptionally well and it's laughable to think that the race for 4th is over. We are 8 points behind Liverpool (admittedly that's quite a gap) but are only 5 points behind Spurs with a game in hand. If they lose one and we win (which is likely given how shaky Sherwood is) then we're right back in it.

 

Truly baffled as to how anyone can moan at this season's performance.

 

Edit: James McCarthy has probably been player of the season for me.

Why.... because we were in a great position (the same as last season) and we go and blow it. What's the incentive of catching Spurs? It's 4th we want not 5th.

Duncan the money was there to spend. There's at least £20+ million floating somewhere. It's being held back and I don't know why same last January under Moyes. In a great position and never spent. Why can everyone see it but the Everton managers?