The Regulator

i didn't say stop discussing how things could be better, or what could be done, but this thread is about whether Moyes should go or not. I don't think he should based on the arguments put forward, and most people voted no as well. Like i said every team has gripes, whether there at the top or the bottom. i doubt man City fans were happy at conceding two against QPR or Chelsea fans were too happy almost drawing/potentially losing to Blackburn. Every fan feels they know what should be happening, just because it isn't for us, the blame doesn't all rest with the manager. As fans we have to do our part to, which is giving them backing when we are in the shit.

Nice to know we have 3 players in the under 18's for england....so they'll all be gone within the next year or two

Bad Meets Evil - Hell: The Sequel Not sure if any of you guys still like Eminem, or have heard of Royce Da 5'9, but this EP is technically as good as anything both of them have ever done. The music may not be to everyone's taste, but I like it for the wordplay, which is second to none. Also been listening to a bit of Corrosion of Conformity

Same for me, BlueSky almost always gives evidence for his argument, instead of conjecture, and it's usually well thought out and well put so I'm happy with his contributions. On point, is it a case for some people then that we feel because we should be doing better, and no-one else wants the job, that Moyes is the best of a bad bunch? I don't want to go over points I've already made, but look at it this way, and maybe BlueSky can help with this. D'yu think that Man City fans, Man U fans, Arsenal fans, don't all have gripes about substitutions and tactics? I'm sure many Arsenal fans are aware of how bad a position they might be in without Van Persie, or how City fans may have chastised Mancini last season for playing so defensively a lot of the time? Yes we should be doing better, because we do have the players to do better, but don't you think Fulham fans, Bolton fans, Blackburn fans, don't all feel the same way? Blackburn as an example have played some very attacking football recently, and have been unlucky it seems against Chelsea and Norwich. Every single fan throughout every team in the Premier league has gripes. We're all entitled to them, we all have ways we think we'd run the team better were we managing the side. However we don't know which players are doing well in training and which aren't, who's worth risking and who's worth just holding back for the time being, we have to trust the manager to make the right decisions, and I know for a fact that when we're playing well we'll all still have the same shit to say about Moyes, but we won't care anywhere near as much because we're winning. He's always been the same, why this year, have we suddenly decided, well it's just not good enough? Get it right, we don't have a right to be in the top ten. we don't have a right to be in europe. We just think we do. We need to accept that at this point in time, we don't have the strength in depth or the goalscorers to get us that far, and we may have to settle this year for mid table obscurity. I know, it's a sad thing to look at, but really, Moyes has tried to keep us competitive and he can't do much more than he's already done...even with no money available he still managed to get a player like Drenthe in, doesn't that suggest that he knows what we're lacking and where we need improving? The other thing we may be forgetting, is that we need him more than he needs us right now. He is not bigger than Everton Football Club, no one person is, but if he left us now who could we get? I think we need to accept that we had money to invest, we had chances to go forward, we had runs in europe, but we just didn't get the job done. Now we have to sit back and watch other teams have a go until we get another shot. We will get another shot, and we won't be in a relegation battle, it's just this may be the year our finances get the better of us on the field. All the same we know the squad we have can produce much better performances than they have done, so why don't we start by backing the manager and the team, and letting them know that we just want them to do their best, and that's good enough?

I'm sorry but if we had investment like Sunderland, Villa, Stoke et al, and Moyes was allowed another 20mil to spend, I think Moyes could still quite easily get us to Europe. It's like i said before, we may be playing bad football, but who else is going to want to manage a club with massive expectations and absolutely fuck all cash to spend?? If there is a manager who can get us to European football bar Moyes then what's his number? Let's give him a call. 1. No-one at Everton, be it the fans, managers or players, would settle for this, and season after season we finish in the top ten, usually unlucky to get to Europe by one way or another. You could blame a poor start to this, but every team has poor runs and good runs in a season. We have ours at the start, which to be honest I'm fine with, because when we start playing well we don't normally stop until the end of the season. Granted like every Evertonian I want us to start well but we haven't again and saying Moyes is to blame for that is ridiculous. 2. That's the situation we know we have to deal with UNTIL we get investment. It is only very close-minded people that think we're not going to get it at some point, and until then if we did have to lose these players we know it wouldn't be for nothing, we'd get a good deal or we wouldn't sell. 3. I don't see much wrong with getting what we needed in, be it the last minute or the first. Stracqualursi I haven't seen anything of but I'm guessing he's either not yet fit enough for the Premier League or he's crap, either way we got another striker. Drenthe has the potential to be a great winger. he still has problems with his game but it's his first time in England and I can forgive it because he is prone to moments of brilliance. Nothing wrong with that signing if you ask me. Donovan? Well maybe we look at him through rose-tinted specs but he is a very good player, and moreover, a morale boost as the fans and players loved having him last time. It may all be on the basis of getting whatever we can lay our hands, but at least Moyes has proved he can grab players from off the map and pin them on it. Vellios being another player under the radar of many, bought for cheap, but who looks like a strong CF. Moyes has always done well at unearthing or capturing players for little money who turn out to be gold (Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar all 2mil, Jags, Lescott, Baines etc etc) There's only been a handful of transfers where he's naused it up, but nothing is ever concrete in football and other clubs have paid big money for players that flop. Fellaini, our most expensive transfer, looks to be our best player. Is he really that bad in the market? 4. His tactics are always arguable. And in no way am I defending all of his daft subs and negative formations, but with Barkley you've got to think there is an air of the Rooney transfer around him, would you take 27mil for him, or would you rather he stay and be a great player for us? I'd want the latter, but all the same Ross should learn to play in whatever position necessary. Ryan Giggs, throughout his United career, has played every position bar goalkeeper. Here it is expected among the players that they have to play where they are needed, and for whatever reason Davey has for dropping him, be it confidence or form, he had reasons to play him on the wide. In fact, remember the Weder Bremen game, where Coleman and Barkley were playing down the right? I seem to remember Barkley cutting in, dancing through 4 players and laying the ball off to Coleman. He is a brilliant young player, but I trust moyes to handle the situation as I'm sure as soon as he puts in one eye-catching performance the wolves will be scratching at the door. I'm happy not to have to rely on him just yet, as there are plenty of players who should be shouldering the responsibility for our shit performances. We do need a leader on the pitch, which I don't think jags is. However, like I said earlier, we always have a crap start. I don't know why, neither does anyone else, but there is quality in our squad. Expectations of both the manager and players have to be lowered, we're not the team we were 3 years ago unfortunately and until we get a few more players and a bit more competition, we just have to show our support and know that our boys can turn this around. It's distressing, frustrating, disappointing and sometimes depressing, but I knew that, 17 years ago, when my dad looked upset and asked him why; "Unfortunately son, I'm an Everton fan, so you'll just have to get used to it" My old man has been a fan since the 70's, he still screams when we're winning and has a go at the manager, the players, the ref and anyone else involved if we lose. It's a hard life being an Evertonian, but to say that anyone else can do better for us than Moyes, with no money and every fan crying out for European football, is asking for the world, and everything in it. Moyes may not be the manager to give Everton the future we all know we deserve, but he certainly can't be bettered to carry us through the present. It's only my view though, it's not Gospel, but I think Moyes gets the lion share of the criticism without thought as to if it's him we should really blame.

So just so I'm clear, we're all really pissed at his tactics? I mean pissed about a lot of things, but that the most yeah? Right so, we don't want who in the team exactly? We've got fuck all back up after 11 players so what's the tactics we're going for? Barkley, a 17 year old who while he may be the most talented prospect in english football right now, is still only 17, and he's expected to start at newcastle and what, create everything and win us the game? "Alright Ross laddy listen, as ye can see we've got a wee problem with winning football matches against the top four teams in the league in not only standing but form as well, we lost a game we should have won because of a red card, and generally we've had the same slow start we've had every season for years now. We could do with winning every game though so could you start every game even though you had a serious triple leg break that almost ended your career, are only 17 and even though you've only featured a wee small amount of games you've got pundits, managers and spectators saying you're incredible, not to mention the newspaper interest that's put price tags of 20 million on you when you haven't even played a full 90 minutes for us in the league? Nice one laddie, that's a good boy." Could Moyes be holding out til he's signed a contract? Could he also be having a dip in form? Could he also not be the chosen one, our Luke skywalker destined to end the reign of the empire? Are other bench heroes well let's take a look. Gueye, who had a foot injury at the start of the season and last time i saw him didn't look up to full fitness, Vellios who whilst he's made great impact goals for us would be better suited starting games because we have to tell the young greek amateur we don't have any faith in our best striker. Bilyaletdinov? capable of brilliant goals but otherwise slow anonymous and generally apathetic to the cause. Howard is our best goalkeeper. Hibbert has been in great form defensively at the back and put in some good crosses. Baines is always consistent. Distin has been strong so far. so Jagielka is a question mark, but maybe Heitinga, who has cost two goals in his two appearances thus far, one of them he did all by himself, isn't setting the world on fire as it is, and maybe Moyes sees how having a consistent back four has helped an average team like Newcastle keep out goals. Sometimes faith in someone is required even if they are not playing their strongest, because we all know how good Jags was, and can be again. Fellaini and Rodwell, if there are any complaints about our two best players this season starting I'm all ears, and Coleman and Drenthe on the wings. Both fast, attack minded and capable of beating the last man. Drenthe is also pretty good with his left foot. So we're replacing Coleman for who? what other wide men do we have? Then what's Moyes left with? Saha in form is a terrific striker, he may not be in form now but he has still scored goals, and against lesser opponents i know he will. Then it's between cahill and Ossie, well even if neither of them are scoring, they still have the instinct, the determination, the caked in spirit to fight to the last minute. and just to make sure you understand what we've been up against? We've played the top 4, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Wigan, Fulham, Blackburn, and QPR. We lost against the first 5, all in different circumstance, almost all teams either in great form or favoured by luck/refereeing decisions...Villa we drew, wigan, fulham and blackburn all wins, no matter how we got them, and QPR? What you think the promoted teams are shit and should be walked over? Norwich could have beaten Man U at Old Trafford, Swansea could have had the shite at Anfield, even QPR pushed Man City to the fucking wall and were unlucky to lose to some degree. And you know whats really fucking amusing about all this? I looked up last years table for this same time, we had 1 point more than we did now. Bolton were in the top 5, and Liverpool? 16th. I agree we all have our opinions and like to play Football manager, and fantasy footy, and anything else football, therefore we would have brought barkley on for neville blah blah blah, but the seasons nowhere near started yet. Until we play Man City next, on paper, we could win every game bar arsenal away. All I ask is that everybody stop jumping on wagons or making the same tired arguments and see how we are in january. if we're still at the bottom I'll be calling for his head like the rest of you, but this is the same recycled shit you got out this time last year, and the year before that.

You all do realise this happens every year though. It's been the same for the last what 4 seasons? We play shit, everyone thinks we won't get anywhere then we start and carry a good run because for some reason our team of players love being the underdog and can only perform when they know they have to. Yes Moyes is negative, yes his tactics and substitutions are baffling at times, and yes we all feel we are playing badly. Newcastle however have had consistently the same back 5 since the start of the season, and as much as we weren't creeating a whole lot, noone has mentioned how well they defended, save for Alan Pardew. Who also admitted that at half time with us just having scored, at Goodison we probably would have won. We have faced Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the last 6 games. That is an incredibly tough set of fixtures to get results from. However, we could have easily beaten liverpool were it not for jack getting sent off, we have played well in other matches, such as Villa. But if you look at the fixtures, we've had top play, contrasting what we have to come, I wouldn't be surprised if by christmas we are up to 9th or 8th and about 7 or 8 points behind 4/5th. Of course Moyes is down because he can't get players, of course he's frustrated and of course so are we the fans because we're not playing as well as we can. But that one win, that one good game we play next, heads will rise. Players will look at other players with confidence. And im sure we will go on a run that will see us higher up the table and back in contention for europe. every fucking year everyone gets on Moyes' back for the bad starts, and every year we recover. You may say "Well its not good enough" but trust me, no other manager in the world wants Moyes' task. Getting in the top ten every year with literally no money at all? We're lucky to have him. If he walks we're absolutely fucked. No manager will want to come here without knowing they can spend money. And we will get out of this. we know our starting eleven with all players fit and in form can beat almost anyone, the problem is they havent hit that form yet, but they will. They always do. And if they don't do the job there paid for, is it ALL the manager's fault? We still should have beat Newcastle with the players on the field yesterday, regardless of tactics. But Newcastle did just enough to shut us out. Other teams, i doubt, will be able to manage the defensive display that they did.

Agreed, when gosling came on I thought there midfield looked a lot weaker than our and we should have been playing through them. Like i said I think fellaini being out for us was a massive difference today, osman looked slightly better playing central as opposed to off the striker, but really Fellaini and Rodwell week in week out is our best chance of actually winning games. Both are calm on the ball and can pick out a pass, as well as shoot, everyone else looked like they were told not to have a shot at all. Pathetic.

Went for Disitn, we had very little if nothing to worry about second half defensively, thanks to him coming into the back four and doing what needed to be done. That being said, we played absolutely garbage overall, gave the ball away countlessly, and had absolutely nothing to offer upfront. Very wrroying times, if donovan does indeed come back I'd play him up top, we need goals from somewhere and although Arteta wasn't a big loss in terms of his age, he did score half a dozen goals a season, and we could have used something like that today.

To be honest I don't think bringing distin on was such a bad decision. We need physicality at the back and to be fair Heitinga looked a little bit brighter in those last moments after Neville went off. Second half though, I think we have a chance to really go at them. Guthrie and Gosling in the midfield is incredibly weak to me, and we can now take control of possession, hopefully with Heitinga sitting in front of the back four and breaking up play. Seriously though, how many times did we have Hibbert and Jagielka just hoofing it downfield to newcastle defenders, only to watch their defenders play it into the feet of their midfielders? I really hope second half we keep it on the floor because when we have we've looked the side more likely to score. It's only because we gifted Newcastle a goal and most of possession with sloppy, long range passes that they saw so much of the ball. Notwithstanding Fellaini is a massive player for us now and it shows. Missing him like a sinead o connor songs misses subtlety. Zing.

It's always the same Romey, the night before a game I think "maybe Moyes will be attacking this time, maybe the other team may slip up" etc....then of course the cold, harsh light of reality hits and you realise that nothing close to that is going to happen. i swear sometimes being an everton fan is like having a really nice dream and then waking up to find your in a police station Oh by the way guys, i know its on sky but I cant get out of the house today to watch it, anybody that finda a link for it please post? Ill try and do the same

Whenever he predicts us to win we normally lose. Still to be honest I'm not too worried about losing, even though they have some good attack minded players. Ba is in great form and Cabaye and Tiote offer a lot going forward. But in my view we need 3 points to get back in amongst it, Newcastle have a tough run of fixtures coming up and I doubt Pardew will go out all guns blazing in this game. Considering who they play next I think they'll take a slightly more conservative approach. He knows we'll come to St. james looking for all 3 points and with players that can hit us on the break I wouldn't be surprised if they sit back and try and counter attack, or make the most from set pieces. I'm hoping our lineup will be something like Howard, Hibbert, Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines, Coleman, Rodwell, Osman, Drenthe, Vellios, Saha. Bench: Mucha, Neville, Distin, Bilyaletdinov, Barkley, Cahill, Stracquarlursi I think we shouldn't try and flood the midfield, wigan did that and while they were unlucky to lose they never looked like winning IMO. If we do the same I don't think we'll have a productive day, but with two upfront I think we'll have a good chance at taking something away from them.

Drenthe has said in a recent interview on the official website that he prefers the right wing position because it favours him attacking the full back. On the left its easier for him to be dispossessed when trying to cut inside, but on the right, as players like Robben have shown time and again, its a much easier proposition. I'd like to see him on the right, as we know hes got a cannon in his left boot, but given that Baines is always overlapping having the two of them developing a bond could give us one of the deadliest partnerships in the premiership.

FFS! 1-1!!!

Is it just me or does Royston look sharp today? this stream is hardly giving me the full picture but he looks lively and his passing looks good?

scratch that neither of them wok, theres not even audio commentary on bbc of ANY game either! This sucks...

never mind refreshed the page

Howard, Hibbert, Jagielka, Distin, Baines, Rodwell, Fellaini, Osman, Coleman, Cahill, Saha - Mucha, Neville, Heitinga, Bilyaletdinov, Stracqualursi, Drenthe, Vellios If that's the team selection for sunday I will seriously worry about our chances. But I'd put a tenner on Moyes starting with that. Fulham are strong defensively and attacking at home, their 6-0 thrashing of QPR making our 0-1 loss seem pathetic. I really hope we turn up and give them a game. i also hope that Moyes introduces Vellios and Drenthe earlier in the game and gives them a chance to tip the balance.

Sturridge...bollocks

http://soccer-portal.org/live-football/premier-league/4793-chelsea-v-everton-highlights.html amazing quality stream here as well guys, english commentary too

I think young defenders are the best players to bring through the squad. Strikers do well on loan, as do midfielders, but I'd prefer to see a young defender put alongside an experienced defense with the likes of Baines, Distin etc tutoring them. The weakness could be covered quite capably by someone like Fellaini, Rodwell, or Heitinga sat in front of the defense adding that extra protection. Moyes will need defenders in the next few seasons to come through and replace/cover for Jags, Distin...practically all of our defense. I think we've been quite lucky over the years apart from one spell a few years ago when we had to play Jags after he just got back from injury, we don't ever have defensive injuries that leave us in situations like Arsenal at the moment. But it could happen, and I hope that if/when it does Moyes has some decent cover. Were we to lose Distin, Jags and Baines in one go what would our defence look like?

When is the draw supposed to be for the next round?

Aguero and dzeko up top look like they could destroy this league, with silva and nasri behind them and yaya toure and barry breaking up play, plus what is one fo the best defences going, I think this is the year when they are finally too much for us. We will definitely concede I know that much, but looking at the bolton and fulham games it seems to be that if man city dont finish teams off they tend to shut up shop and play for what they have. It's also worthy to note that we have in recent seasons had a much better record against teh bigger boys than against the mid table teams, so that being said im hoping for a score draw. Hopefully we will have a strong first 11 and take the game to them.

Both Lawro and Gary oldman have tipped us to win, which makes me worried. But even if Wigan turn up I don't think they're that good anyway, as long as we play like we did last week I can't see anything but a home win. I'm gonna go for 3-1, Cahill to end his drought with a brace and Drenthe with his first goal for the club. COYB!!!

Really hope he gets to feature in our midfield his weekend. Ossie looks like he could get some real form this season with the absence of arteta, and with barkley and felli alongside him in midfield, and coleman and drenthe on the wings we could end up playing some very attacking football.