Bailey

I thought Martinez always took longer than stated to get players back into the team?

He really is. Sums it all up really.

Ramirez!? The man who literally can't make a 5 yard pass? Barry is our sitter and McCarthy is the box to box man. Sometimes I do think he needs to break forward more because he makes some good runs and generally makes the right decision. He isn't going to skin anyone and play it through the eye of a needle but he will draw a defender off him, and identify where we have an overlap. You only have to look at the yardage he covers to see that he does play that type of role. The other players might be more associated with box to box roles but they didn't play it and again if the two of them don't suit each other then why where they so instrumental in our best games last season and why did we look lost without one of them last season?

Must admit his work rate at times was poor and he could have done much more in that respect. He showed flashes of quality at the same time though but it just didn't come off for him on the day.

But the holding midfielders have a bug impact on what happens in the final third. At the moment Barry is taking 3 or 4 touches when he used to spread the play with one or two touches. That time gives the opposition the chance to get organised, leaving no space to exploit reducing the opportunities we have in the final third. McCarthy and Barry were brilliant together last season and both played in our best games. When you look at the best performing teams in this league (Liverpool last year with Gerrard and Henderson and Chelsea with Matt and Mikel or Ramirez at times etc). I would prefer to see the one holding player with McCarthy and Barkley just ahead of him but to say it doesn't work with such high profile examples is just wrong.

Not to mention he persisted with Saha when he didn't even get into the box or Cahill when he was shot. Such short memories!

Didn't take long!

Exactly. The similarities between the Utd squad and our squad were very similar. Both squads needed rejuvenating, with clever buys to key positions. Martinez did that, put his own stamp on the side, Moyes didn't and tried to follow Fergie.

He has been crap in midfield though. Not saying he carries the can as he isn't the only one. He was really important to us last season and he was still a big part of our better games early season but these last 6 or so games have been well below what you would expect of him.

I watched a lot of Wigan and this isn't true, well not entirely. Martinez believes in his plan A and that eventually it will break a team down and it doesn't matter whether it comes in the first or the last minute. He changed his set up at Wigan a bit more than he has done for us this season. His game plan against us for example or Man City in the FA Cup too. At the end of one season Wigan outplayed Spurs, Liverpool, Utd and City some at home and some away. Last season we saw him change his set up from game to game here and there albeit mainly sticking with a main core. The Arsenal game is the main one but we did it in others too. Again with subs he believes that plan A will work. It's bullshit that he doesn't make changes though or they are only 80 mins plus. Some games he won't make any changes but we have seen a few come on at half time, and we have seen plenty come on around 60 mins. In terms of good against some and not against others well that is football. You can't wipe the floor with everyone every week, especially when you had the calibre of players Wigan had. I would have expected that to improve with us and it did last season, unfortunately this year on the whole has been dreadful. Early season we were unlucky to be the better team but dropping silly points to bad goals but now we aren't the better team and we are conceding bad goals.

Best post I have read from you.

Kjaer looked good in France but we gave him the run around a little over here. I think he is probably the perfect player in a defensive formation (which is how Lille play) but I suspect he might get caught out a little more in an attacking side when he will be exposed more often.

He really has fallen off a cliff and needs time out of the side.

You really are a tool Cotto, completely unable to read between the lines. My point is Di Matteo didn't control the dressing room. The big players/egos had too much influence (as seen in the videos on match day let alone behind the scenes).

Get our best team out, play them in their best positions and get a win on the board. With a disappointing season ahead we can't afford to go out of this comp with a whimper and we need to start getting some confidence back in the players.

I'm talking about his time at Wigan. I am talking about Wigan because someone mentioned he won't be able to get us out of this mess but he has proven himself before. In his one full season with us he got us to our highest ever points tally. It's incredible how short people's memories are and how quick they are to turn.

plenty of good managers have relegated! Plus he was managing the lowest spending club in the league (wages) so keeping them up for those years was an achievement but I wouldn't expect you to understand that! I agree on the whole. It will have an effect but his age it will be minimal. See above.

They are all over the forum. I called you out on Lukaku previously changing your mind week to week. Haf called you on another thread just recently too. For everyone elses sake I won't be responding to you on this again.

I know Moyes signed him but he never played. My comments were in relation to the previous ones about Barkley (only coming through under Martinez) Didn't say he was did I? I am comparing their situations not their ability ffs.

He has also been given a lot more ammunition that Martinez up to now. Dont also forget that Klopp got Mainz relegated too. Di Matteo just picks players and hope they do the job, with little or no thought. Chelsea pretty much managed themselves, or at least Terry managed them. His record at WBA and MK Dons is nothing special, but he is doing ok at Shalke so far. He doesnt have a style though, doesnt have a philosophy and wont get us anywhere. I have based Martinez' ability on what I have seen from him at Swansea, Wigan and with us. How on earth is a record points tally lucky? The biggest pile of shite I have heard. A game here or there fine but over 38 games you dont get lucky. Quite possibly the studpidist comment on the site. Dont forget Stones either. We have signed well on the whole, a couple havent worked but they wont all succeed.

So what is different between Klopp having a bad season with Dortmund and Martinez having a bad season with us? Di Matteo is an awful manager as well, I hope that suggestion is a joke! Now thats a good shout but he will play a very similar way to Martinez.

Its this type of bull shit that makes me laugh. Completely ignoring the fact that Howard had his best season for us last year under the new goal keeping coach. He got Wigan out of worse positions!

There are too many posts to quote and its all over the forum. You are far from consistent! I have even called you on it before. I am very attached fella and I'm not great to be around after every poor performance but I am better than I used to be because you grow up and realise that there are a lot of other more important things to worry about. I just prefer to look at what is really going on, try and understand why instead of making brash comments. Tbh Paddock I doubt it very much if anyone questions where your heart is with Everton mate, if you get what I mean.

Baines by far, Naismith second for effort alone and then Barkley.

It wouldnt be interesting to know how many times people have watched the names mentioned too.