Arteta For England?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I love Arteta and I love England but there is no way on Gods green earth that Mickey should ever wear the 3 lions

[pete0]

he wudnt get picked anyway, no everton players get there fair share of caps

[Romey 1878]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/capello-sounds-out-arteta-over-switching-sides-to-join-england-2064112.html

[MikeO]

Mikel tonight...

 

"The situation is the same as it has always been, no-one has contacted me about it and I said really clearly last week my thoughts about it. I said it once and I'm going to repeat myself - if that opportunity comes I will consider it very seriously."

 

"But that's all I can say. I don't think it's me that has to make the decision. They (The FA) have to think about the situation, they have to propose something, they have to talk to me, and then we can talk about it."

 

"I don't think it's me who has to say anything because it's not my job, but if Capello and the FA say it's alright then I'll say what I think. At the moment there is nothing. If one day there is something I will be as clear as I am now."

[marcopaulo]

won't be coming any time soon mikel mate unless you pull your head out your arse!

[Matt]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/08/29/arteta-awaiting-england-call

on the OS too

[Noddy]

I really don't think he's eligible.

[marcopaulo]

Mikel Arteta out of reach for British switch - Levein

[Everton_Worshiper]

Same story as above...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/7972270/Mikel-Arteta-not-eligible-to-play-for-England-say-Scottish-Football-Association.html?

[Louis]

Would it really have hurt for someone to check out the facts and the gentleman's agreement before putting a story together? Especially on the official site.

[iggy]

Would it really have hurt for someone to check out the facts and the gentleman's agreement before putting a story together? Especially on the official site.

 

I understand we had one of those with Gosling so it means nothing in reality.

That said I don't believe the FA would go against it even if the rumours that Capello is interested.

I also personally don't believe in the "Johnny Foreigner" adopting another country scenario anyway, as rife as it is in other sports.

Edited August 31, 2010 by iggy

[Kohen]

There was a lot of long posts here, so I didn't read ALL of them but I skimmed them.

 

One point which someone made was that "you could only play for your country of birth, and that country only"

But, what happens when the situation arises that a player was born in Tokyo, Japan and of Japanese decent but moved to England when he was only 5months old. He has exactly the same patriotism as the lad stood next to him when the national anthem is being sung and considers himself "English", so much that he even supports a tattoo of a British bulldog in front of a UnionJack on his shoulder!

 

Would you argue his eligibility to play for England?!

 

Now Arteta still speaks with a Spanish twinge, and you could probably argue he 'looks' Spanish, but under FIFA rules (the 5 years) he falls into the same category as Yokie Nakamura over there!

 

 

(I had the full inention of making that a 1 line post )

 

Also, I have to commend Arteta's comments over the situation, very professional!

Edited August 31, 2010 by Kohen

[MikeO]

...he falls into the same category as Yokie Nakamura over there!

Can Yokie play on the right wing? If so I think he's worth a cheeky bid .

[marcopaulo]

There was a lot of long posts here, so I didn't read ALL of them but I skimmed them.

 

One point which someone made was that "you could only play for your country of birth, and that country only"

But, what happens when the situation arises that a player was born in Tokyo, Japan and of Japanese decent but moved to England when he was only 5months old. He has exactly the same patriotism as the lad stood next to him when the national anthem is being sung and considers himself "English", so much that he even supports a tattoo of a British bulldog in front of a UnionJack on his shoulder!

 

Would you argue his eligibility to play for England?!

 

Now Arteta still speaks with a Spanish twinge, and you could probably argue he 'looks' Spanish, but under FIFA rules (the 5 years) he falls into the same category as Yokie Nakamura over there!

 

 

(I had the full inention of making that a 1 line post )

 

Also, I have to commend Arteta's comments over the situation, very professional!

 

moving here at 5 months old is different to living here for a few years in your 20s..i see what you're saying but i doubt it would be the same case cos that person would probably choose england over japan then..would arteta choose england over spain? i don't think so

[Louis]

That's why I thought it was strange that FIFA remove the age limit last year. It was 21 years and younger that a player had to decide their 'FIFA nationality'.

 

Also something to consider.. Gary Bailey was born in Ipswich. Moved to South Africa as a young boy and lived their during his childhood (until the age of 20) and later played for England.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/8856/exclusive-taylor-no-reason-why-arteta-cant-play-england

[Noddy]

Also something to consider.. Gary Bailey was born in Ipswich. Moved to South Africa as a young boy and lived their during his childhood (until the age of 20) and later played for England.

As long as Bailey had British nationality and satisfied the eligibility requirements, is there really a problem? I think that FIFA's statutes governing international football team eligibility are fair and reasonable. Wouldn't you agree?

 

 

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/8856/exclusive-taylor-no-reason-why-arteta-cant-play-england

The title is false and misleading. There are a number of reasons why Arteta can't play for England. Most importantly, he doesn't satisfy FIFA's statutes. Even if he did, he wouldn't be deemed eligible in the eyes of the 4 British Associations, who have a Gentleman's Agreement prohibiting Arteta from playing.

 

Your man Gordon is obviously just saying that he won't have a problem with 'foreign' players like Arteta qualifying and playing for England. The guys interviewing him seem a bit thick to be honest. "We're an island, we're not Europe...". Not sure if that was being facetious, but

[Romey 1878]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/09/01/england-warning-for-arteta

[jamiemaher85]

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is that the paperwork required to give Arteta British Citizenship would take around nine months to go through. Another reason why is just doesn't make sense.

[Romey 1878]

http://sport.virginmedia.com/football/article/2010/09/01/fifa_rule_dashes_arteta_england_hopes

[marcopaulo]

if that's the case them game over to all this then i guess?

[Noddy]

Thankfully the FA understand the rules. And finally there is a media outlet who's daring enough to report it!

 

"The little known Article 18.1.a within the FIFA statutes outlines that any player who has represented their country in an official competition, at whatever level, would at that time need to have held a passport for the country they later wish to play for in order to be permitted to make the switch."

 

Little known? Seriously? The rules are readily available online from FIFA's website. All it requires is some time and to type 'FIFA Statutes' into any decent search engine.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/09/01/arteta-not-eligible-for-england

[Louis]

The arrogance:

 

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Fabio-Capello-has-been-left-red-faced-after-Mikel-Arteta-is-ruled-out-of-playing-for-England-by-FIFA-rule-article570087.html

 

It only went so far because no one in the press checked their facts before publishing what was a shock-jock topic on TalkSport in the first place.

[Louis]

Michael Winter

 

What a surprise FIFA have found a loop-hole to ruin Mikel's chances of representing England! Shock !!!!!

http://www.evertonfc...ble-for-england

[Louis]

This Is the original rule preventing Arteta playing for England:

 

Article 18

Change of Association

'

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is

eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may, up to his 21 1t birthday,

and only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international

matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the

following conditions:

 

(a.) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an official competition at °A"

international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial

appearance in an international match in an official competition for his current Association, he

already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.

 

(b.) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition in which he has already

played for his previous Association .

 

If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international match in accordance with art .

15 par. 2 permanently loses the nationality of that country without his consent or against his will

due to a decision by a government authority, he may request permission to play for another

Association whose nationality he already has or has acquired .

 

Any Player who has the right to change Associations in accordance with par. 1 and 2 above shall

submit a written, substantiated request to the FIFA general secretariat. The Players' Status

Committee shall decide an the request. The procedure will be in accordance with the Rules

Governing the Procedures of the Players' Status Committee and the Dispute Resolution Chamber.

Once the player has filed his request, he is not eligible to play for any representative team until his

request has been processed .

 

That was the original but in 2009 it was amended:

 

Change of association (art. 18 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes)

58% of the Congress members approved an amendment to the current article. So far, players eligible to change associations in order to play for another national team could only do so until their 21st birthday. The Congress has now decided to lift this age limit, but has maintained all the other provisions of art. 18.

 

So in reality it is this:

 

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is

eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality, he may,up to his 21 1t birthday,

and only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international

matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the

following conditions:

 

Arteta played for Spain at different levels in the following competitions:

 

U-16 - U16 European Championships - winner

U-17 - U17 FIFA World Cup

U-17 - Meridian Cup - winner

U-21 - U21 European Championships - qualifiers Sweden knocked Spain out in the qualification playoffs

 

It comes down to what FIFA mean by "full or partial appearance", that's the deciding factor.

 

Judging by the October 2003 ruling, it seems to imply that it means all age groups:

 

A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities.

 

Ironically, it's the same rule that allows Cahill to play for Australia and yet the official site still published a story about Arteta interested in England

[Louis]

Turns out.. the "gentleman's agreement" we were talking about isn't actually a gentleman's agreement but it is in fact a clause submitted to FIFA.

 

"FIFA Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes".

 

Regardless of par. 1 above, Associations sharing a common nationality may make an agreement under which item (d) of par. 1 of this article is deleted completely or amended to specify a longer time limit. Such agreements shall be lodged with and approved by the Executive Committee.

 

and item (d) (that is "deleted completely" for the home nations) is the;

 

(d) He has lived continuously an the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.

 

In July, a statement from the Scottish FA said:

 

"The Scottish FA has received confirmation from FIFA that it has approved an amendment to eligibility ruling 15 (d) of the agreement between the four British associations. The amendment was submitted by the four home associations to FIFA's executive committee, who met in Johannesburg, principally to correct an anomaly in the original wording. The amendment has now been implemented with immediate effect. Under Article 15 of the FIFA regulations, a player who is eligible to represent more than one association on account of British nationality shall now be assessed according to the following criteria:

 

a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;

 

His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;

 

c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association.

 

The original Rule

 

d) read: 'the player has undertaken primary and/or secondary education for a minimum of five years in the territory of the relevant association.'

 

The reworded Rule

 

d) now reads: 'd) He has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association."

 

Essentially.. no non-UK player who has not been educated for five years in UK before turning 18 can represent a UK nation. Obviously there are exceptions - Good Friday Agreement springs to mind which allows for Norn Iron and ROI to share the same player pool.

 

No doubt Noddy or Ian C will come and bite my head off for using UK when it should have been Britain or somesuch.

[Noddy]

No doubt Noddy or Ian C will come and bite my head off for using UK when it should have been Britain or somesuch.

Ha, what's that supposed to mean?

I'm actually impressed by your research. If only some media outlets would have done the same. Or perhaps I'm being naive - maybe they knew, but ran the stories regardless, knowing that it would sell a few papers.

 

Essentially.. no non-UK player who has not been educated for five years in UK before turning 18 can represent a UK nation. Obviously there are exceptions - Good Friday Agreement springs to mind which allows for Norn Iron and ROI to share the same player pool.

Hmm, I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Players born in NI are eligible to play for the IFA and the FAI due to their automatic dual nationality (British and Irish). They'd be able to play for any British association as long as they satisfied any of the criteria (birth, ancestry, education) Irish players born down South are not eligible for the IFA unless they acquire British citizenship, in which case they'd have to meet the criteria.

 

Education is a strange requirement to have, if you ask me.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Noddy

[Louis]

Ha, what's that supposed to mean?

I'm actually impressed by your research. If only some media outlets would have done the same. Or perhaps I'm being naive - maybe they knew, but ran the stories regardless, knowing that it would sell a few papers.

 

What happens here is a company called the Press Association write the stories and they sell them to major news outlets. Generally the media outlet don't check and that's why things get out of hand.

 

Irish players born down South are not eligible for the IFA unless they acquire British citizenship, in which case they'd have to meet the criteria.

 

Didn't know that, I thought it was a free for all over there. Didn't realise it was all one way traffic.

 

Education was brought in so that Scotland could claim Andrew Driver as a Scot It's also allowed youth team player Aristote Nsiala to play for Wales somehow.