Racism At Goodison?

[Matt]

Well Matt, we don't know for sure. One of the local papers suggested he said worse than what was being reported, the nationals picked up on the "French" line.

 

if he has says something worse then fair enough. But going on whats being reported its a joke.

 

Im going on strike until this is over!

[MikeO]

Listening to the radio yesterday heard about Top Gear's Mexican comments...

 

"Mexican cars are just going to be a lazy, feckless, flatulent, oaf with a moustache leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat," Hammond said.

 

 

Jeremy Clarkson went on to joke that being Mexican would be "brilliant" because then he could sleep all day.

 

Are they going to be taken to court, fined and suspended by the beeb? Comments sound worse if anything.

[carlmc25]

first time ive seen this. So we are saying stereotypes are racist too? This is absolutely stupid.

Of course steretypes can be racist, if you said, she's a rubbish cleaner because she's black - that's racist, saying all Mexicans are lazy is racist.

 

If you trawl through archives of football reports I am sure you will find comments such as '..The Frenchman/ Dutchman/ Spaniard/ African appeared to show a lazy attitude......' or something on similar lines. Is this any different to what the guy is alleged to have said?

 

yes it is different, saying he was a Frenchman who was lazy is not racist, like saying someone is black (afro-caribbean or whatever) and is lazy is not racist - using French or black as part of the insult - ie you black/French lazy b****** IS racist/xenophobic. It's used in a derogatory way.

 

Listening to the radio yesterday heard about Top Gear's Mexican comments...

 

"Mexican cars are just going to be a lazy, feckless, flatulent, oaf with a moustache leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat," Hammond said.

 

 

Jeremy Clarkson went on to joke that being Mexican would be "brilliant" because then he could sleep all day.

 

Are they going to be taken to court, fined and suspended by the beeb? Comments sound worse if anything.

 

They had loads of complaints about this and haven't the mexican government been going mental? I seem to remember reading something about this. I personally find Hammond pretty irritating anyway, Clarkson will get away with it as he always does and he's a big star. The beeb will no doubt make some apologies but carry on allowing them to do it due to the ratings they get, bad publicity is better than none at all.

[Matt]

Of course steretypes can be racist, if you said, she's a rubbish cleaner because she's black - that's racist, saying all Mexicans are lazy is racist.

 

 

Stereotypes exist based on a reality, like it or not. 'Cheese-eating surrender monkey' is not racist, its a stereotype based on old facts and exagerrated. It is also derogartory, but not racist. If colour and creed come into it, then I would agree its racist, but the initial article says "a useless French lazy b******", picking up on the stereotype rather than the race. Your 1st example isnt a stereotype, its a racist comment unless you know of a stereotype that all black women are cleaners. It would be the 1st time i wouldve heard of such. Saying all Mexicans are lazy is an exagerated stereotype, but again, most of them couldnt organize a piss-up in a brewery so its stereotype. Racist to me is throwing in colour or religion into the insult, not picking up on national traits.

 

All in my opinion by the way and I in no way condone racism.

[carlmc25]

Stereotypes exist based on a reality, like it or not. 'Cheese-eating surrender monkey' is not racist, its a stereotype based on old facts and exagerrated. It is also derogartory, but not racist. If colour and creed come into it, then I would agree its racist, but the initial article says "a useless French lazy b******", picking up on the stereotype rather than the race. Your 1st example isnt a stereotype, its a racist comment unless you know of a stereotype that all black women are cleaners. It would be the 1st time i wouldve heard of such. Saying all Mexicans are lazy is an exagerated stereotype, but again, most of them couldnt organize a piss-up in a brewery so its stereotype. Racist to me is throwing in colour or religion into the insult, not picking up on national traits.

 

All in my opinion by the way and I in no way condone racism.

actually, you do seem to be condoing racism, you just don't know it. 'Picking up on national traits' what a load of rubbish. There's plenty of lazy british people as well, picking up their dole cheques every couple of weeks. Not all Mexicans are lazy so to brand Mexicans as a whole as lazy is racist. My first example was a stereotype and a racist one, it doesn't matter whether all black women are cleaners or not, the point is, I was saying that I have heard that comment before, I heard a woman say that black cleaners don't clean as well as white cleaners, which of course is absurd and totally racist and totally a ridulous stereotype. The French comment is xenophobic/racist whatever you want to call it, it's unacceptable and why people feel the need to spout this crap is beyond me. Being at a football match doesn't give people the right to act like morons and ignore basic human rights.

 

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'll leave it at that. I just find intolerance or abuse of others based on nothing other than their appearance or where they were born pretty depressing. There's as many white british idiots as any other race or nationality

[Matt]

actually, you do seem to be condoing racism, you just don't know it. 'Picking up on national traits' what a load of rubbish. There's plenty of lazy british people as well, picking up their dole cheques every couple of weeks. Not all Mexicans are lazy so to brand Mexicans as a whole as lazy is racist. My first example was a stereotype and a racist one, it doesn't matter whether all black women are cleaners or not, the point is, I was saying that I have heard that comment before, I heard a woman say that black cleaners don't clean as well as white cleaners, which of course is absurd and totally racist and totally a ridulous stereotype. The French comment is xenophobic/racist whatever you want to call it, it's unacceptable and why people feel the need to spout this crap is beyond me. Being at a football match doesn't give people the right to act like morons and ignore basic human rights.

 

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'll leave it at that. I just find intolerance or abuse of others based on nothing other than their appearance or where they were born pretty depressing. There's as many white british idiots as any other race or nationality

 

Actually I dont condone racism and resent the accusation. I work all around the world in many different cultures, with 30+ nationalities off the top of my head, trying all the different cultural differences (a lot of which I either dont agree with or am not comfortable with, im set in my ways) when I visit, which in itself doesnt prove im not racist. The fact that I try the different cultural aspects and I get on with most of them should, regardless of skin colour or religion. The ones I dont get one with are usually people that i find to be prats, and they are in every country and creed.

 

However, there are nationalities that Ive worked with that drive me round the bend. One of them have been Mexican. Stereotypes are based on the majority, and I agree with the Mexican one because of my experience. From my experience, they are mostly lazy. Very friendly people, nice to hang out with, but a nightmare to work with. Lazy here is a stereotype based on personal observation. There are however a lot of hard working ones too, just not as many. Just because someone says all, exagerating the stereotype, doesnt make it a racist statement. Last year when I was in Barcelona and I was ranting over and over again because the people on the whole were driving me nuts because they wouldnt do the work needed. So whilst i was living in a hotel to help them out for 9 months, working 12+ hour days, they were going home to their families after 8-9 hours, just couldnt be arsed putting in the effort, knowing someone else would pick up the pieces. I had the same reaction as to the Spanish and after working with other Mediterranean colleagues, im coming to think its just the Latin/Med culture.

 

 

"There's plenty of lazy british people as well, picking up their dole cheques every couple of weeks. " = stereotype, the well known Dolite. Or is that racist too? People on the dole are a race now and being discriminated by the colour of their adidas tracksuits?! Never said the British were exempt of laziness either, because plenty are but its not the majority.

 

"I heard a woman say that black cleaners don't clean as well as white cleaners, which of course is absurd and totally racist and totally a ridulous stereotype" This is just racist to me, no stereotype being mentioned that I can see. Just anger putting down the other race. Nothing to do with the job or way of life, pure attack on the race of the person.

 

"Being at a football match doesn't give people the right to act like morons" - completely agree with that too, but "Ignore basic human rights" because someones pointed out the guy on the field who isnt putting in the shift is the French guy and is frustrating the hell out of everyone?! Come on...

 

Every country has traits that other countries take the piss out off, how you can declare that is rubbish is beyond me. I know youve said your piece, and im trying to respect where youre coming from, I even agree with a lot of it, I just dont agree with all of it. Im only going on now because I dont like being accused as a racist and hopefully explained why I dont think I am. Probably backfired and ive opened a can of worms....

[carlmc25]

Actually I dont condone racism and resent the accusation. I work all around the world in many different cultures, with 30+ nationalities off the top of my head, trying all the different cultural differences (a lot of which I either dont agree with or am not comfortable with, im set in my ways) when I visit, which in itself doesnt prove im not racist. The fact that I try the different cultural aspects and I get on with most of them should, regardless of skin colour or religion. The ones I dont get one with are usually people that i find to be prats, and they are in every country and creed.

 

However, there are nationalities that Ive worked with that drive me round the bend. One of them have been Mexican. Stereotypes are based on the majority, and I agree with the Mexican one because of my experience. From my experience, they are mostly lazy. Very friendly people, nice to hang out with, but a nightmare to work with. Lazy here is a stereotype based on personal observation. There are however a lot of hard working ones too, just not as many. Just because someone says all, exagerating the stereotype, doesnt make it a racist statement. Last year when I was in Barcelona and I was ranting over and over again because the people on the whole were driving me nuts because they wouldnt do the work needed. So whilst i was living in a hotel to help them out for 9 months, working 12+ hour days, they were going home to their families after 8-9 hours, just couldnt be arsed putting in the effort, knowing someone else would pick up the pieces. I had the same reaction as to the Spanish and after working with other Mediterranean colleagues, im coming to think its just the Latin/Med culture.

 

 

"There's plenty of lazy british people as well, picking up their dole cheques every couple of weeks. " = stereotype, the well known Dolite. Or is that racist too? People on the dole are a race now and being discriminated by the colour of their adidas tracksuits?! Never said the British were exempt of laziness either, because plenty are but its not the majority.

 

"I heard a woman say that black cleaners don't clean as well as white cleaners, which of course is absurd and totally racist and totally a ridulous stereotype" This is just racist to me, no stereotype being mentioned that I can see. Just anger putting down the other race. Nothing to do with the job or way of life, pure attack on the race of the person.

 

"Being at a football match doesn't give people the right to act like morons" - completely agree with that too, but "Ignore basic human rights" because someones pointed out the guy on the field who isnt putting in the shift is the French guy and is frustrating the hell out of everyone?! Come on...

 

Every country has traits that other countries take the piss out off, how you can declare that is rubbish is beyond me. I know youve said your piece, and im trying to respect where youre coming from, I even agree with a lot of it, I just dont agree with all of it. Im only going on now because I dont like being accused as a racist and hopefully explained why I dont think I am. Probably backfired and ive opened a can of worms....

I give up. can I just clarify, are you saying that because you've met a few Mexicans who are lazy, it's ok to 'exaggerare the stereotype' and brand all Mexicans as lazy? That's what it appears you are saying. Which by the way is racial stereopying, therefore racist. Can I just ask, how many Mexicans have you met - there are probably approx 150 million Mexicans in the world, so unless you've met more than 75 million of them you can't possibly know whether most of them are lazy.

 

Racism can be defined as:

 

'the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others'

 

in other words, saying that all Mexicans are lazy and white british people work harder than them.

 

I didn't really see the problem when you were working in Barcelona either, it appears that these people were working 9 hours then going home to their families, hardly seems unreasonable to me... it's called a work/life balance.

 

This thread should probably be moved out of the general Everton thread I would assume...

Edited April 1, 2011 by carlmc25

[Matt]

I give up. can I just clarify, are you saying that because you've met a few Mexicans who are lazy, it's ok to 'exaggerare the stereotype' and brand all Mexicans as lazy? That's what it appears you are saying. Which by the way is racial stereopying, therefore racist. Can I just ask, how many Mexicans have you met - there are probably approx 150 million Mexicans in the world, so unless you've met more than 75 million of them you can't possibly know whether most of them are lazy.

 

Racism can be defined as:

 

'the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others'

 

in other words, saying that all Mexicans are lazy and white british people work harder than them.

 

I didn't really see the problem when you were working in Barcelona either, it appears that these people were working 9 hours then going home to their families, hardly seems unreasonable to me... it's called a work/life balance.

 

This thread should probably be moved out of the general Everton thread I would assume...

So unless ive met everyone in the world I cant make a opinion on certain cultures? I have done so based on my experience, its all that people can do. Stereotypes exist for a reason, based on input from hundreds of different cultures, its not based on a couple of blinkered idiots deciding they dont like another group - thats racism. One of the Mexicans I met how did work hard acknowledged that his own people were, on the whole lazy and that the stereotype was accurate. So, is he racist too?

 

As for the Barcelona comment, you dont understand the working world. They had a responsibility to get things done for a deadline. They didnt. They let someone else do it for them. That to me is lazy. No, I didnt meet every spanish person alive, but I go on what I see. They too acknowledge they can be lazy, but they dont care.

 

Im not defending this anymore. I do not consider myself racist and if you think I am, i dont care. Because I know youre wrong.

 

 

[carlmc25]

So unless ive met everyone in the world I cant make a opinion on certain cultures? I have done so based on my experience, its all that people can do. Stereotypes exist for a reason, based on input from hundreds of different cultures, its not based on a couple of blinkered idiots deciding they dont like another group - thats racism. One of the Mexicans I met how did work hard acknowledged that his own people were, on the whole lazy and that the stereotype was accurate. So, is he racist too?

 

As for the Barcelona comment, you dont understand the working world. They had a responsibility to get things done for a deadline. They didnt. They let someone else do it for them. That to me is lazy. No, I didnt meet every spanish person alive, but I go on what I see. They too acknowledge they can be lazy, but they dont care.

 

Im not defending this anymore. I do not consider myself racist and if you think I am, i dont care. Because I know youre wrong.

You don't understand what racism is, it's not just about 'a couple of blinkered idiots deciding they dont like another group' - that's a small part of it, like intimidation is a small part of bullying and harrassment at work. Putting down a whole group of people, whether it be calling them lazy, smelly, ugly etc based on your limited personal experience is racism. You may not think it is, but unfortunately it is. I even just quoted part of the dictionary to you and you still deny it's racism. If you were in work and said I think all Mexicans are lazy, you'll be subject to disciplinary hearings and performance management in no time. You need to actually understand what racism is, it's not just about calling a black person the n word.

[Matt]

You don't understand what racism is, it's not just about 'a couple of blinkered idiots deciding they dont like another group' - that's a small part of it, like intimidation is a small part of bullying and harrassment at work. Putting down a whole group of people, whether it be calling them lazy, smelly, ugly etc based on your limited personal experience is racism. You may not think it is, but unfortunately it is. I even just quoted part of the dictionary to you and you still deny it's racism. If you were in work and said I think all Mexicans are lazy, you'll be subject to disciplinary hearings and performance management in no time. You need to actually understand what racism is, it's not just about calling a black person the n word.

 

I do understand what it is you condescending prick, get of your high horse... And quote the dictionary you like, different dictionaries give different definitions? Why - because people define things differently, for example "Hatred or intolerance of another race or other races" or "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior" or "the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races". All getting towards the same idea but worded differently as dictionaries try to define how they see it. But lets take your one:

'The belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors (Stereotypes) and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others (racism)'

 

I dont think you have understood that I dont think certain races are better than others! I believe everyone is equal and should be treated equally. I try very very hard to keep to this in practice, giving everyone a chance to prove the last guy was a bad example. Part of trying to treat people equally is being able to see bad points in all races, as well as good.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Matt

[carlmc25]

I do understand what it is you condescending prick, get of your high horse... And quote the dictionary you like, different dictionaries give different definitions? Why - because people define things differently, for example "Hatred or intolerance of another race or other races" or "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior" or "the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races". All getting towards the same idea but worded differently as dictionaries try to define how they see it. But lets take your one:

'The belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors (Stereotypes) and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others (racism)'

 

I dont think you have understood that I dont think certain races are better than others! I believe everyone is equal and should be treated equally. I try very very hard to keep to this in practice, giving everyone a chance to prove the last guy was a bad example. Part of trying to treat people equally is being able to see bad points in all races, as well as good.

You say it's ok to call all Mexicans lazy, therefore - unless you say that it's ok to call all British people lazy - you are implying British people are harder working which makes them superior workers - therefore SUPERIOR. Therefore it IS racist. The other two comments I highlighted in bold basically mirror the quote I pulled out of the dictionary, they all say the same thing. The hatred/intolerance one is the odd one out, the other ones are more about discrimination and superiority as was mine.

 

for information:

 

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/mexico/110201/BBC-racist-mexican-stereotypes-top-gear

 

Can I just ask, if you owned your own business would you not employ Spanish people or Mexicans because they're lazy - as that would seem to fit in with your ideology? If so, that's direct discrimination and they would take you to the cleaners. How would you feel if you were Mexican or you mum was and people went around saying all Mexicans are lazy. It's totally unacceptable.

Edited April 1, 2011 by carlmc25

[Matt]

You say it's ok to call all Mexicans lazy, therefore - unless you say that it's ok to call all British people lazy - you are implying British people are harder working which makes them superior workers - therefore SUPERIOR. Therefore it IS racist. Can I also point out that the other two comments I highlighted in bold basically mirror the quote I pulled out of the dictionary, they all say the same thing, you just don't realise it.

 

for information:

 

http://www.globalpos...otypes-top-gear

 

Can I just ask, if you owned your own business would you not employ Spanish people or Mexicans because they're lazy - as that would seem to fit in with your ideology? If so, that's direct discrimination and they would take you to the cleaners. How would you feel if you were Mexican or you mum was and people went around saying all Mexicans are lazy. It's totally unacceptable.

 

Are you for real?! Im not implying anything about the British being better or worse because Ive not said either way that British are harder workers or lazier! No comparison therefore no superiority therefore no racism! I wouldn't care if someone said all British people are lazy either. Stop telling me I dont recognize it you self righteous tart - I know what it means and because you disagree with my interpretation of the definition that makes me racist? Well fuck you. It doesnt. If I'm a racist in your eyes, I couldnt care less anymore. Youve proven to me that you're a short-sighted shy-horse, unable to see other peoples points of view and denying that they exist because you only see your way.

 

Would I employ Spanish, Mexican? If they were qualified for the job, or course! If they then failed to deliver however, I would fire them, like I would any other employee regardless of nationality.

 

If I I get people winding me up because I come from near Liverpool, saying "oh watch out, here comes the scouser, nail everything to the ground they're all theives!". Would I get offended? No! Because I know its not true and I prove that by being myself, without having to try. But its a stereotype of Liverpool. Cartoons depict a fat guy drinking tequila in a sombrero to show the character is Mexican or a Frenchman with a breadstick under one arm whilst smoking and drinking wine is seen in a drawing, stereotypes. To return the favour:

 

"Stereotype = a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing". The only way a stereotype becomes racist is by direct comparison with another race/nationality, by your own arguement. There is no superiority without comparison. If no comparison is made, no attack on skin colour or religion, it cannot be racist! If you see that it 'implies' a racist remark when there is no comparison, then your looking to make it racist and what does that say about you.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Matt

[carlmc25]

 

Are you for real?! Im not implying anything about the British being better or worse because Ive not said either way that British are harder workers or lazier! No comparison therefore no superiority therefore no racism! I wouldn't care if someone said all British people are lazy either. Stop telling me I dont recognize it you self righteous tart - I know what it means and because you disagree with my interpretation of the definition that makes me racist? Well fuck you. It doesnt. If I'm a racist in your eyes, I couldnt care less anymore. Youve proven to me that you're a short-sighted shy-horse, unable to see other peoples points of view and denying that they exist because you only see your way.

 

Would I employ Spanish, Mexican? If they were qualified for the job, or course! If they then failed to deliver however, I would fire them, like I would any other employee regardless of nationality.

 

If I I get people winding me up because I come from near Liverpool, saying "oh watch out, here comes the scouser, nail everything to the ground they're all theives!". Would I get offended? No! Because I know its not true and I prove that by being myself, without having to try. But its a stereotype of Liverpool. Cartoons depict a fat guy drinking tequila in a sombrero to show the character is Mexican or a Frenchman with a breadstick under one arm whilst smoking and drinking wine is seen in a drawing, stereotypes. To return the favour:

 

"Stereotype = a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing". The only way a stereotype becomes racist is by direct comparison with another race/nationality, by your own arguement. There is no superiority without comparison. If no comparison is made, no attack on skin colour or religion, it cannot be racist! If you see that it 'implies' a racist remark when there is no comparison, then your looking to make it racist and what does that say about you.

Stop glossing over it and talking nonsense - there's no racism without comparison - ER WHAT? so it's ok to say all black people deserve to be shot because you AREN'T saying anything about white people? is that really your argument? I said when you say all Mexicans are lazy, the 'implication' is that some other races are not, making the comment racist. Otherwise why single out Mexicans, why not say everyone is lazy?

 

The fact remains, you said it's ok to call all Mexicans lazy, when it isn't - it's racist. You can consider yourself to not be a racist but your comments are racist, casual racism possibly and non threatening but still racist.

 

One minute you said all latin/meditarranean cultures are lazy, next minute you'd hire them for a job without any prejudice whatsoever, excuse for me being sceptical of the blatant hypocrisy. If it was between a Mexican and a british guy and they had equal qualifications I know who you'd hire, you've made it obvious.

 

anyway, I've tried - I would advise now closing this thread as the argument will now go in circles.

 

Sorry if I've upset anyone but I can't stand this type of rubbish.

Edited April 1, 2011 by carlmc25

[Matt]

Stop glossing over it and talking nonsense - there's no racism without comparison - ER WHAT? so it's ok to say all black people deserve to be shot because you AREN'T saying anything about white people? is that really your argument? I said when you say all Mexicans are lazy, the 'implication' is that some other races are not, making the comment racist. Otherwise why single out Mexicans, why not say everyone is lazy?

 

The fact remains, you said it's ok to call all Mexicans lazy, when it isn't - it's racist. You can consider yourself to not be a racist but your comments are racist, casual racism possibly and non threatening but still racist.

 

One minute you said all latin/meditarranean cultures are lazy, next minute you'd hire them for a job without any prejudice whatsoever, excuse for me being sceptical of the blatant hypocrisy. If it was between a Mexican and a british guy and they had equal qualifications I know who you'd hire, you've made it obvious.

 

anyway, I've tried - I would advise now closing this thread as the argument will now go in circles.

 

Sorry if I've upset anyone but I can't stand this type of rubbish.

Stop reading the bits you want to see and giving stupid responses you utter tool. I already covered the "bringing in race and creed into it" then you went off on superiority and I tried to show you that you can have superiority with comparison. If you cant make the link and follow whats already been covered then thats your issue, not mine.

 

Saying nothing is implying something?!!?!?!?!? If YOU consider it racist, fine, but stop telling me im racist. Just because you say it, doesnt make it fact, and if you think it does you need your fucking head checked.

 

 

And fuck you calling me a hyprocrit because I said I would judge people on their merits rather than race. If it came to it between Mexican/Brit/French whatever and qualifications were the same, id look at experience! There are more ways to look at things! How fucking dare you judge me. I will hire anyone who i think is good enough. If it came down to someone who is identical in experience, qualifications etc, who would you chose? Because either way you chose, by your definition, you're being racist.

 

Apologies to the rest from my side too. I would imagine most of you know I dont swear or get this wound up usually, but being labeled a racist based on my interpretation of a definition, I will not stand for. Especially from this high-n-mighty twat.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Matt

[carlmc25]

Stop reading the bits you want to see and giving stupid responses you utter tool. I already covered the "bringing in race and creed into it" then you went off on superiority and I tried to show you that you can have superiority with comparison. If you cant make the link and follow whats already been covered then thats your issue, not mine.

 

Saying nothing is implying something?!!?!?!?!? If YOU consider it racist, fine, but stop telling me im racist. Just because you say it, doesnt make it fact, and if you think it does you need your fucking head checked.

 

 

And fuck you calling me a hyprocrit because I said I would judge people on their merits rather than race. If it came to it between Mexican/Brit/French whatever and qualifications were the same, id look at experience! There are more ways to look at things! How fucking dare you judge me. I will hire anyone who i think is good enough. If it came down to someone who is identical in experience, qualifications etc, who would you chose? Because either way you chose, by your definition, you're being racist.

 

Apologies to the rest from my side too. I would imagine most of you know I dont swear or get this wound up usually, but being labeled a racist based on my interpretation of a definition, I will not stand for. Especially from this high-n-mighty twat.

how depressing, more name calling.

 

One last thing then, answer me this:

 

is it ok to say that all Mexicans are lazy?

Edited April 1, 2011 by carlmc25

[Matt]

how depressing, more name calling.

 

One last thing then, answer me this:

 

is it ok to say that all Mexicans are lazy?

 

Naming calling?! Youre calling me racist, what do you expect since you ignored most of my arguements. If I accused you of being a racist are you going to just sit there and take it calmly? Because its a big fucking deal to me.

 

All? Ok no - happy? Most, yes.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Matt

[carlmc25]

Naming calling?! Youre calling me racist, what do you expect since you ignored most of my arguements. If I accused you of being a racist are you going to just sit there and take it calmly? Because its a big fucking deal to me.

 

All? Ok no - happy? Most, yes.

no I'm not happy, how do you know 'most' are lazy, you haven't met over 75 million of them - therefore it's a racist statement.

 

At least you seem to be admitting it isn't ok to 'exaggerate the stereotype.'

Edited April 1, 2011 by carlmc25

[Guest blueboy122]

Carlmc 25 you dont know what your talking about... Your an idiot mate. Sort it out and get a life and while your there get off your high horse. Somebody saying you lazy french bastard is not racist I dont care what you say I dont care what the human acts right say because to any normal sane human being that is not racist, end of argument the jury has voted in favour of Matt... I am the jury. Carlmc you English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish bastard............ Lock me up and throw away the key!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt]

no I'm not happy, how do you know 'most' are lazy, you haven't met over 75 million of them - therefore it's a racist statement.

 

At least you seem to be admitting it isn't ok to 'exaggerate the stereotype.'

 

for the last time, if I am making a statement when I say most, its going on personal experience of which I have a lot seeing as Ive had to travel the world in the last 4 years for my job, working with many many different cultures. Its implied...

 

Im not saying it isnt ok, im not saying its ok either, i just dont see what the big deal is or how its racist. Oh, and I missed this before, casual racism?!

Edited April 1, 2011 by Matt

[carlmc25]

for the last time, if I am making a statement when I say most, its going on personal experience of which I have a lot seeing as Ive had to travel the world in the last 4 years for my job, working with many many different cultures. Its implied...

 

Im not saying it isnt ok, im not saying its ok either, i just dont see what the big deal is or how its racist.

If you said most of the Mexicans I have met are lazy, that is not racist, but generalising and saying that most Mexicans are lazy - based on the 0.0005% you've met is. I'm not saying you're a member of the KKK, what I'm saying is saying all Mexicans are lazy, is just like saying all French people smell, all black people are dirty etc. Loads of people, including my parents and grandparents, have racist tendencies, it's ingrained and they don't even realise it. All I'm trying to do is make some people think about what they are saying. I can't stand discrimination or intolerance of others, I got really cheesed off at my wife's church when the vicar was going on about how all other religions etc were wrong. Just be nice to people, is it that hard?

 

At the end of the day, I've never met you and I'm sure I never will, so it doesn't really matter what I think. I just wanted to challenge what you were saying as I didn't think it was right.

[Matt]

If you said most of the Mexicans I have met are lazy, that is not racist, but generalising and saying that most Mexicans are lazy - based on the 0.0005% you've met is. I'm not saying you're a member of the KKK, what I'm saying is saying all Mexicans are lazy, is just like saying all French people smell, all black people are dirty etc. Loads of people, including my parents and grandparents, have racist tendencies, it's ingrained and they don't even realise it. All I'm trying to do is make some people think about what they are saying. I can't stand discrimination or intolerance of others, I got really cheesed off at my wife's church when the vicar was going on about how all other religions etc were wrong. Just be nice to people, is it that hard?

 

At the end of the day, I've never met you and I'm sure I never will, so it doesn't really matter what I think. I just wanted to challenge what you were saying as I didn't think it was right.

 

Now you see, thats an argument I can accept. Thats a reasonable way of putting forth your side. Making the outright statement as clear cut fact that imi racist was what was getting to me and I felt the need to defend myself. Still dont think that quantifying makes a difference though, just my opinion. Apologies for the name calling, I was angry at the accusations, but Im just as passionate about it as well, so I mightve gone OTT in my reactions.

 

The only people im intolerant of are people who are intolerant!

Edited April 1, 2011 by Matt

[carlmc25]

Now you see, thats an argument I can accept. Thats a reasonable way of putting forth your side. Making the outright statement as clear cut fact that imi racist was what was getting to me and I felt the need to defend myself. Still dont think that quantifying makes a difference though, just my opinion. Apologies for the name calling, I was angry at the accusations, but Im just as passionate about it as well, so I mightve gone OTT in my reactions.

 

The only people im intolerant of are people who are intolerant!

I personally do still think it's a fact that saying most mexicans are lazy is a racist statement, by pure definition as outlined in a dictionary! but we'll have to agree to disagree I suppose, I certainly would advise you against ever saying it, particularly in any job situation!

 

Don't worry about the name calling, it doesn't bother me, especially over the internet as you don't know me and vice versa - I just don't see the need for it but then I've always been pretty rational, maybe too rational sometimes...

 

anyway, it's Friday and I'm sure there must be better things to do than debate the finer points of racism! Have a good weekend

[Matt]

I personally do still think it's a fact that saying most mexicans are lazy is a racist statement, by pure definition as outlined in a dictionary! but we'll have to agree to disagree I suppose, I certainly would advise you against ever saying it, particularly in any job situation!

 

Don't worry about the name calling, it doesn't bother me, especially over the internet as you don't know me and vice versa - I just don't see the need for it but then I've always been pretty rational, maybe too rational sometimes...

 

anyway, it's Friday and I'm sure there must be better things to do than debate the finer points of racism! Have a good weekend

And I think definitions are open to interpretation. But yeah, agree to disagree i suppose

 

 

I did try not to resort to name calling at first but then lost my temper - hence the apology! Not proud of it.

 

Good weekend to yourself

[carlmc25]

And I think definitions are open to interpretation. But yeah, agree to disagree i suppose

 

 

I did try not to resort to name calling at first but then lost my temper - hence the apology! Not proud of it.

 

Good weekend to yourself

I appreciate the apology, seriously.

 

dear me, next we'll be down the pub having a pint!

[Matt]

I appreciate the apology, seriously.

 

dear me, next we'll be down the pub having a pint!

 

 

 

[MikeO]

Get a room .

[marcopaulo]

is it too late to take sides or are we all scrambling in a big pile now?

[Hafnia]

Maybe he should have said "laid back" rather than "lazy" then the word "French" would not have had the significance it did,

 

Sometimes its a female that decides when to change lazy to laid back and vice versa. When we don't Hoover because we can't be bothered it's "lazy", when we don't challenge them on the colour of the next curtains they chose because we can't be bothered we are "laid back". Have I just been sexist? Nope, just an experience of mine.

 

fact is we probably will never know the true extent to what was said. A 3 year ban would indicate more in my mind.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Hafnia2