Memmaclub Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Right so I have seen and read a lot about the going's on behind the scenes and you can get a view from all sorts of factions but I think it seems to be made too complicated. Forgetting allegancies to one view or another this is about two things the maths and balance of running a company. and the expectation of the fans. Maths of EFC Bill said it himself in simple terms our costs are 5 Million over our income every year and we have to borrow the short fall. so for me we have to reduce operating costs baring in mind the biggest cost is player wages we have to sell to reduce the wage bill and recruit players to fit in with our wage structure. An example Arteta 75k a week or 3.9 mil a year. Just by selling him for 5 mil we have reduced our costs to near balancing point and paid off 5 mil of debt. We don't need arteta as we have osman and back up will HAVE TO come from the youth team who are already covered in the current costs. Fan Expectation To be able to balance the books we have to accept some big names will go and the replacements will be inferior. We may not be happy as fans about this but it's reality and calling for big money signings is pointless as we don't have the money. My personal opinion sell some key high earning players to reduce the costs to a balanced level use the transfer money to pay off debt and replace the players we sell with their squad understudy (Osman = Arteta) (heitinga = Jags) then replace the squad with the youth. In addition we the fans accept the club is cutting it's costs accordingly and we support the team that is put out. If that means mid-table this season I for one will take it if the team that goes out fights and tries to play the best football they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Did this really need it's own thread when all of this is being discussed elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 See £24m operating costs that bill can't explain in other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's worth reading this if you haven't already: http://www.toffeeweb...ccounts2010.pdf Apparently, the man who wrote it is a former Managing Director for Optical Express. Here's an extract: It’s not easy for the board. If I owned the club the fans I fear would really dislike me…. • Cap the wage bill at no more than 50% of turnover • Wage cap for players ensuring no megastars creating disharmony in the dressing room • Work tirelessly to persuade Liverpool to consider a shared stadium • Never pay more than £5m for any player – shop in the Championship and lower leagues • Invest in the infrastructure and improve customer service and customer satisfaction • Tell the fans the financial reality – consistently • Bite the buyer’s hand off if they offered £35m for our forward produced in the academy • Pay off and reduce debt and leave a legacy of assets for the next generation It’s a truly horrible manifesto for die-‐hard blue and so you can see why it’s not likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 You lost credibility when you said forget Arteta because we have Osman, its like saying get rid of your porsche because there is a fiesta waiting for you to drive instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 You lost credibility when you said forget Arteta because we have Osman, its like saying get rid of your porsche because there is a fiesta waiting for you to drive instead Is it really? A lot of the players some consider our "star players" (like Arteta, Jagielka...) really don't live up to that title a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 You lost credibility when you said forget Arteta because we have Osman, its like saying get rid of your porsche because there is a fiesta waiting for you to drive instead Not really, especially when the Porsche breaks down all the time and isn't performing well. A fine car on it's day no doubt, but at the moment is being burned off at the lights by less prestigious motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Not really, especially when the Porsche breaks down all the time and isn't performing well. A fine car on it's day no doubt, but at the moment is being burned off at the lights by less prestigious motors. Not by the Fiesta he isnt. The lad is coming back from 2 injuries, really dont get why suddenly Arteta has become the scapegoat all of a sudden. Still easily 1 of the best players in Royal Blue 99% of the games he plays. Hardly Artetas fault there is a statue ahead of him which he has to produce a miracle pass to hit, instead he retains the ball (normally) Edited August 23, 2011 by HalewoodBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's because he's paid £75k a week, if he were paid a third of that, it wouldn't be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's because he's paid £75k a week, if he were paid a third of that, it wouldn't be an issue. Didnt see many complaints when he was getting that contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think there were complaints, it didn't make financial sense but it was a decision to keep one of the better players at the club. I vaguely remember it being around the time of Man City and Aston Villa were interested. In hindsight, I think it was partially a contract offer to warn off other clubs and make a statement of Everton not being a 'selling club'. Incidentally, the contract signing was announced four days after we borrowed against 2011/12 Premier League money. Even Bill Kenwright acknowledged there were calls to sell him, "last year I was hung drawn and quartered for not selling Arteta." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think there were complaints, it didn't make financial sense but it was a decision to keep one of the better players at the club. I vaguely remember it being around the time of Man City and Aston Villa were interested. In hindsight, I think it was partially a contract offer to warn off other clubs and make a statement of Everton not being a 'selling club'. Incidentally, the contract signing was announced four days after we borrowed against 2011/12 Premier League money. Even Bill Kenwright acknowledged there were calls to sell him, "last year I was hung drawn and quartered for not selling Arteta." Agree with a lot of that, but i bet there would have been a lot of moaning had we not give him the contract, which is why you cant really use the excuse of he has a nice big contract so lets throw shit at him because he isnt performing to his high standards presently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Yeah, It's also likely that Moyes didn't want to sell and I think that some fans wanted the club to make a statement showing we could afford to pay 'big club' wages. I think it comes down to a combination of Moyes pressure, fan pressure and Bill Kenwright not wanting to sell fan a fan favourite on his watch after seeing the club lose Lescott the season before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Arteta is an example because there is a decent idea on what his wages are. I honestly believe arteta jags and rodwell could be sold individually (Not all 3) with little impact to where we finish in the league this year. But my main point is as fans we have to accept we support a club at a certain level of turnover and that turnover has to support a wage bill and at the moment it isn't so therefore we have to sell big wage players and bring in cheap replacements so we can break even OR manage to pay off debt. If we sell Jags and arteta for something between 25-30 mil we can pay off a decent amount of debt while reducing our wage bill and therefore make the club alot more frugal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Partington Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 This isn't Football Manager mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 The biggest issue for me at the moment is that not only have we let the debt spiral, we have also let the running costs go through the roof with out much chance of improving revenue. We are paying a lot on loan repayments and a lot on interest. But as the merchandising is tied into kitbag for another 8 years we can't grow on that front and for the biggest clubs in the world that is a massive cash generator. It was a great quick fix at £3m a year but in 8 years £3m won't be very much at all in football terms. In comparison to other premier league teams we don't pay that much more on wages. It's a sorry state of affairs, but for me the reason to shift out Arteta is that we have a lot of midfielders and can probably afford to lose one. We don't have many forwards or defenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I know it's not football manager dopey!!! it is simple maths spend less than comes in. Moyes has said they may have to sell someone big. I would welcome jags leaving for 15 mil and 2 x 3.5 mil players coming in to replace. The one free of the summer I surprised we didn't go for was seb larson good winger has been around english football for a time and is quite young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I know it's not football manager dopey!!! it is simple maths spend less than comes in. Moyes has said they may have to sell someone big. I would welcome jags leaving for 15 mil and 2 x 3.5 mil players coming in to replace. The one free of the summer I surprised we didn't go for was seb larson good winger has been around english football for a time and is quite young In all seriousness, how are we going to get free signings? We needed to loan players out to ease the wage bill. Larsson would have had a nice signing on fee, and probably wages in the 50k a week region. Frees are not as free as they sound. Expect jags to go if arsenal qualify for champs league tonight. £15m bid rejected apparently. £18m and he's gone I think. Which is likely why onuoha is being looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoblue Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 18 would be good business for Jags, no two ways about it. We have enough cover around. I can imagine DM might even see close to half of that to use freshening up the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Don't personally understand the arteta comparison, he was never a porsche in the first place. Yes arteta is a good midfielder, and yes he has been very good for us, but it's because he's the only playmaker we have. which is why we need him so badly. Looking at the situation though, in central midfield we have Osman, Rodwell and Fellaini, with Barkley and Cahill able to play there as well as Heitinga and Neville. That's seven players that can play in central midfield for us, now granted, if arteta can recapture form in a wide position then he would be an asset, but realistically we can afford to lose him at 29 years old. 8-10mil for Arteta and 18-20mil for jagielka, and we could spend 3-4mil on someone like Onouhua as cover for Heitinga/Distin and someone like Lewis Holtby for 6mil. We get to use 20 odd mil to pay off some of the debt and we would have reduced the wage budget as well. Then we may have some money left over, or maybe from the sale of Yobo/Yakubu, to loan someone in January, possibly Donovan, and we're no weaker than when we started except we've taken a big step towards reducing the defecit, in fact, in my opinion, we'd be even stronger. But I'm sure it's nowhere near as easy as that and while I'd grin from ear to ear if that situation happened it won't, so we have to hope Arteta and jagielka can both recapture their form and push us up the league, hopefully into europe, where we have a chance at some extra revenue, and let's face it, we're good enough to be there. The europa league isn't beyond us at all, in fact I'd say it's right in our wheelhouse, and just what the younger players need. We deserve to be there so hopefully, come what may, it happens this season. COYB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Regulator ..... "if arteta can recapture form in a wide position then he would be an asset, but realistically we can afford to lose him at 29 years old. 8-10mil for Arteta and 18-20mil for jagielka, and we could spend 3-4mil on someone like Onouhua as cover for Heitinga/Distin and someone like Lewis Holtby for 6mil. We get to use 20 odd mil to pay off some of the debt and we would have reduced the wage budget as well. Then we may have some money left over, or maybe from the sale of Yobo/Yakubu, to loan someone in January, possibly Donovan, and we're no weaker than when we started except we've taken a big step towards reducing the defecit, in fact, in my opinion, we'd be even stronger". Its Easy isn't it, why aren't you in our Fantasy Footy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.