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For Mike, A Theological Discussion.


Mac
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If there is no God, how can you explain the following ......

 

Duck billed platypuss

 

Testicles in a really vulnerable place and in the softest bag imaginable

 

Love

 

 

 

I know I am being a little facitious, but I would like to enter into a theological debate, with the following clearly understood....

 

1) Any God is acceptable and the slagging off of other faith's is not on.

 

2) No sectarian shit

 

3) Say what you feel as long as you can back it up with logic and reasoned arguement.

 

Let the games begin...............

 

ATB

 

Mac

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Same.

 

Though, And only as a point of reference o'course, the Duck Billed Platypuss could be used as a premiss by the aetheist scientific indoctrinated types.

 

And then of course explained away as a massive laboratory fuk up...!!!

 

Interesting angle for discussion.

 

I also will be back with a thoughtier head on & when rid of about 4 inches of coal dust from me skin, eyes & up me nose.

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OK first I apologise for the "There is no God" statement...I don't know if it's true (although I strongly suspect it is), and that for me is a major point. We're not dealing in certainties here and I object strongly to people putting forward their beliefs as fact but then pretending they respect other religions. It's a fact that 2+2=4: if someone tells you that 2+2=67 do you say, "You're entitled to your opinion and I respect you for it"?

No, not unless you're really not sure of your own facts or are being supremely patronising, so for the vast majority of religious people it's a matter of faith, not fact. Fine. But keep it to yourself please.

 

Then you've got the extremists, the fundamentalists...stark raving dangerous lunatics the lot of them! And I'm not talking about any religion specifically...their actions are mostly influenced by their circumstances, for example put some Christian fundamentalists into Palestine like living conditions, make them believe (rightly or wrongly) that they're treated as something less than human with no hope of any future and see how long it is before they start producing suicide bombers.

 

I just don't get it...curiously I watched a bit of "Songs of Praise" on Sunday and I really just don't get it. "Intelligent people believe in this", I said to myself, so what am I missing? I don't know. But I do think that if I'm wrong and there is a God then he must be mightily pissed off with us all. What's all this ludicrous obsequiousness about...praising my saviour all the day long...they say nothing constructive in those services, just "He's so great", "Don't you just love Jesus". What father, heavenly or otherwise, wants his children to spend all their time gibbering on about how great their father is? Get a fucking life, say "Thanks dad, for creating me like...I'm off to have an existence, I promise to be good, see you at Christmas".

 

And the platypus and the testicles is just as good an argument for atheism I think, along with wasps, root canals and in-growing toenails.

 

My own personal theory is that we're all part of an experiment in a school laboratory being conducted by a member of the next species up the universal pecking order; rather like we might study an ant colony, someone is studying us for their equivalent of a biology A-level. You may laugh but it's just as plausible as any other theory :lol: !

 

God (who?), I've gone on for a long time, sorry. Believe what you want to believe but don't get upset with people who don't agree with you, that's what I say!

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I agree with ya Mike, or maybe i dont and i'm just saying that......is that patronising.??

 

But i have my own thoughts on our existence.............Whats the point in us being born into work and slavery for all our lives, and to introduce more people (babies) into slavery and drudgery for X amount of years and then just to to die off. :blink: Seems to be nothing to aim for, no reason for being here, your born, you live x amount of years, and then you die. WHY, WHAT FOR. ???

 

There must be something else, I think we are all here on trial, and if we make a good job of it, it determines what sort of afterlife we have to look forward to.

 

Just an opinion.

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I'm not arsed either way, with Liam though, live it and care when it ends :D

 

 

.....

 

WHY AM I GETTING FLOOD CONTROL WHEN I HAVE'NT POSTED FOR AN HOUR. ????

 

Sorry Ian am borrowing your post cos its the only way i can get on.

Edited by Licker
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Cracking answer Mike, personally I have a major problem with organised religions (I am a practising Catholic, we never get good enough at it to stop :D ).

 

In the middle ages, at a time of poor health, high mortality rates, awful living conditions and 100% illiteracy rates amongst the "working class", the Church took off big time.

 

It was with the reward of a life everlasting in paradise, possibly to make what was an unbearable life of toil and struggle, that drew the numbers into organised religion and allowed it to thrive in the way that it did. The Protestant work ethic was born, more's the pity.

 

The Catholic Church is the wealthiest (asset wise) organised religion on the planet and yet it still seeks to collect more wealth from the poorest of it's members, the one's who deserve and need their help.

 

My religion is mine, it's personal and I don't normally discuss it, but I was just interested as to what people think.

 

There was no need to apologise about the comment Mike, that is you belief and I have to respect that.

 

But those TV Evangelists in the godd ole US of A scare the shit out of me. :unsure::unsure::unsure:

 

ATB

 

Mac

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But those TV Evangelists in the godd ole US of A scare the shit out of me. :unsure::unsure::unsure:

 

You and me both Mac, fortunately had their wings clipped a bit in the elections yesterday...but still a powerful force for bigotry and intolerance.

 

Good point putting the church in historical context also, not something I'd given a great deal of thought to.

 

I have tried religion in the past, notably in about 1975 when I was trying to get on the interesting side of Paula Norden's knickers...she was a Baptist and this fifteen year old's wet dream :lol: . Was partially successful at the teenage fumbling but failed miserably at the Baptism part despite numerous church visits and much feigned interest :unsure: .

 

Also was exposed to a lot of quasi-religious stuff at various times during rehab process, but none of it stuck.

 

Incidentally Licker my wife's beliefs are very similar to yours....she's had some pretty shitty, actually extremely shitty, experiences in her life and refuses to believe that this is all there is to it.

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Its just a thought that there has to be something else, otherwise there's no point in us being here.

Some people do make a good job of it, aka Millionaires and such who lead a more comfortable existance than most, charitable people who help the poor and needy, and those religious people who go to church every week and pay homage to their respective leaders.

But what do they gain from leading a good and respectable life, Nothing cos they all die in the end , same as everybody else. Why are we here. ???

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I dont realy think about "why" we are here I just make sure I feckin enjoy myself at every opportunity incase getting dropped in the hole / furnace is actually the end of it all. If theres more too it I'll deal with the concequences of my actions when I get there!

 

"live hard and go out in a blaze of glory"

 

Life is for living my friends!

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The age old question - what is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?.

 

42

 

Tara is with Licker on this one, there has to be something, but what it is she doesn't know.She is very eclectic in her view on religion, a bit like "pick n mix", a little from here and a little from there and there you have it a philosophy.

 

ATB

 

Mac

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Im an unbeliever, I just cant believe in something that I have no proof to say it exists. I actually hope like hell Im wrong because just dying and then not existing is a pretty scary thought tbh. Im with Licker in some way, I want to know why we are here because from where im standing its all a bit pointless.

 

 

My one and only church is Goodison Park :D

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Wow some great replies Gents.

 

Firstly I dont no how to start, which is very rare for Pat.

 

Personally I have No Religion.

 

I agree with much sentiment thru the whole thread.

 

The looking for something, Why am I here Question is one That has echoed the ages.

 

Again & in a respectfull tone I should state that I believe my self to be very tolerant. Not just regarding religion, but regarding people, humanity etc.

 

I dont believe, but thats my perogative.

 

Like many of the varied religions parishners, subjects, flocks, etc ( & members here) I have big problems with organised mass religion. ( The power,greed & historical games that go along with them are to wide & varied to discuss & I mean all sides of the fence).

 

Like many, I had my years of theological head fuking. I am lucky & feel I found myself & my Place many years a go now.

 

In a nut shell on a personal note, I found what I was looking for. Well infact found nothing. Simply & honestly found out the questions ( again in a personal sense) I was asking were simply wrong.

 

So after re considering the actual Questions I never found answers but realisations.

 

I was happy with this & moved on to my own space or place.

 

 

Is your god real? Are your religions true ?.

 

How can I answer that? How can anyone ? I honestly dont no, ive never had a sign, or felt blessed ( not complainin like - just trying to express my feel of non religion) .

 

To me it is a question, some of us will flick off, some will consider deeply, others may fret & fear.

 

I must also add that I do not come from Religion & have never been indoctrinated towards the church @ any stage of my life ( a few have tried - but failed ) This it self would I feel explain my lack of fear ( not respect )in regards to God's, religions & churches.

 

To close & get really inside the arl Pat, I once herad religion described this way & it hit the nail on the head 4 me... Religion, The Opiate of the Masses Whilst many find this opiate via the church, many dont & many still ask questions & seek answers.

 

I also admit that I was bitter as a child & again acknowledge losing my mother @ the age of 5 & then basically pourin me arl fella out the door to work for the next decade ( now he's a man whom Hates God)may also have helped shape the place I am @ now.

 

However & to close, I am happy with my place, have no guilt in a religious sense, have no real beliefs as to wht will happen in after life's or whatever & am bascially along for the ride, with a see what happens phillosphy.

 

As to be honest I dont no & stopped goin there a long time ago...Pass the pipe pedro...!!!

 

Im Pat & that was a 5year disertation thesis piece on life thru Pat's eyes chopped in to 3 minutes.

 

Our next topic should be on Neo liberal imperialism & Global Cultural rape.

 

Thats what currently ( if the last 10-15 yrs is current) gets me fukin livid & find my self looking for answers 2 in such regards. And you np if one delves deep enough in tot he circuit of culture, well be suprised how many of these things like we have discussed today are interwined & used against us.

 

But hey thats for another day.

 

Disclaimer; Have no Idea what Ive said in 1 st half of post, all came form the ticker so aint even gonna go back, edit or look @ it...Just press add reply & live with my self. As 1 always has done, In this life anyway... ;)

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the purpose of life is to live,hence why its called "life", and, if your heart can accept the concept of it,love,personally thats all i need to make me lead a happy existence(and no,faye isnt sat next to me with a gun at my head!)

 

and yeah,i believe in god too, dont get me wrong im not a big bible basher,not a go to church on a sunday bloke, i reckon that at the end of the day, you believe in what you want to believe and i just reckon that after dying that that cant be it

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We will be born again, if not on Earth, in another galaxy, in another time warp. Peace be with you Brothers. ;)

Will there be another Goodison there? If not it will be hell :o !

 

Another point on mortality which occured to me. Any fear of death that I had disappeared in the instant that my son was born....can't really explain why, cycle of life stuff I guess, my primitive instinct to continue my bloodline had been achieved so I could move on. My father sadly was too scared of dying to ever talk about it, and even through the long illness that eventually killed him three years ago it wasn't something he would ever talk about which is sad because we never got to say goodbye properly.

 

Josh is actually going through a phase of asking questions about, and being quite scared of, dying (which is apparently pretty normal behavioural stuff for his age). He wants answers! And he thought I knew everything :lol: . I've actually been told I'm not allowed to die..tough one that.

 

Some good stuff on this thread people...we seem dangerously sane :D .

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Once again a one off thread of a personal nature has confirmed the level of intelligence and sensitivity that is thought to be missing in footie freaks, some wonderful thoughts and opinions offered here and this has given me a fair bit of food for thought.

 

The main reason for me asking such a personal question was very simple, I am currently having a crisis of faith, I no longer wear my Crucifix and have not attended Mass for quite some time. This, I feel, has more to do with my current state of mental health and old experiences being dragged up through a recent therapy I have undergone.

 

I will leave you all with this thought, "there are no Atheists on a battlefield".

 

Thanks to all who contributed.

 

Mac

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Once again a one off thread of a personal nature has confirmed the level of intelligence and sensitivity that is thought to be missing in footie freaks, some wonderful thoughts and opinions offered here and this has given me a fair bit of food for thought.

 

The main reason for me asking such a personal question was very simple, I am currently having a crisis of faith, I no longer wear my Crucifix and have not attended Mass for quite some time. This, I feel, has more to do with my current state of mental health and old experiences being dragged up through a recent therapy I have undergone.

 

I will leave you all with this thought, "there are no Atheists on a battlefield". Thanks to all who contributed.

 

Mac

 

 

Very true Mac, when it comes to the crunch you always pray to God or ask for his help. Eg when a member of your family is seriously ill most people will pray to God to keep them safe etc.

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If there is no God, how can you explain the following ......

 

Duck billed platypuss

 

Testicles in a really vulnerable place and in the softest bag imaginable

 

Love

I know I am being a little facitious, but I would like to enter into a theological debate, with the following clearly understood....

 

1) Any God is acceptable and the slagging off of other faith's is not on.

 

2) No sectarian shit

 

3) Say what you feel as long as you can back it up with logic and reasoned arguement.

 

Let the games begin...............

 

ATB

 

Mac

 

Love...because why not, its a beautiful thing, every1 enjoys it, every1 feels it and finds comfort in it

 

Testicles, because where else would you want em, on ya chin? maybe they could be a little less soft though, but then thats the advantage of wearin ya jeans low

 

platypus, ya got me there thats 1 ugly SOB

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