Blue 250 Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 4th place!......we don't have to finish in fourth place to avoid a crisis, they do!That could be the spur they need or it could unnerve them....time will tell! Seriously....how can a team with a £25million pound forward, an £18million midfielder, captain fantastic, a bloody good goalkeeper and numerous mega million pound players.....under the watchfull eye of one of Europes best managers and backed by new mega million pound owners........really expect to finish outside the top four?....not to mention probably the bigest squad in the prem! For a team with our limited funds, small squad etc.....how the hell can they not finish above us? To do what Moyes and the boys have done is credit to them and Everton.Semi-final in the league cup.....pushing for top 4....going great in Europe.At times playing some great football, all this with the limits mentioned above! Wherever we finish this season!....may we never appear as desperate as luckypool! Funny really......Fat Raffa could never do what Moyes has done!......build a team with a small purse....buying British players....using local talent, through the youth structure....and do what Moyes has done this season and when he finished 4th a couple of seasons back. 4th,5th....or 6th....we've still got our soul......our pride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie ton Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Rafa could never do what Moyes has done! Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. Maybe Moyes could never win anything with a big club, maybe he could. When Rafa leaves Liverpool, he'll have many massive jobs open to him around europe, Real madrid, ac milan, etc. Moyes has quite a few steps to climb and quite a few trophies to lift before he has clubs like that watching his every move and trying to pry him away every summer. You do make some good points in your post though, we shouldn't be scratching for 4th, that's both credit to you and a discredit to us - we are far better than our points tally says, yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Funny the timing of Liverpool supporters coming out of the woodwork . They've hit a little patch of form and matched us for the first time in four months and whoooooosh, faster than a speeding bullet. The fact is that we (and Clattenberg) gave them a significant head start. After ten games they were unbeaten and had twenty points, we had thirteen. They dismiss our current position as, "a decent run of form that has seen you go level with us on points," but that decent run of form has been going on for more than four months now. More than a run imo. We'd have settled for fifth at the start of the season, we're in a very close contest for fourth....not favourites, as DM rightly says (no mind games, just realism...look at the bookies odds). Liverpool wouldn't have settled for fourth at the start of the season. Incidentally, just out of interest, points won after the first ten games. Chelsea have played seventeen, the rest all eighteen... ManU 41 Chelsea 40 Everton 40 Arsenal 39 Liverpool 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie ton Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Mike, you're right but you don't need to tell us we've not been good enough in the league, yet again. We have some special players but have been sloppy at the back, something we've not been guilty of for many seasons (being the team with the most clean sheets the last two years) because we've had to play our 4th and 5th choice centerbacks at times. What I don't get is how we've been so rubbish and you've been so great, yet we are still above you (level on points). It's a matter of perspective, of course. Everton has been growing over the last few seasons and are a very good team, anyone that denies that can't see through their googles. It's just the dismissal of our players qualities that have me baffled, again, I suspect it's more to do with perspective than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 look at mikes stats...we were as you put it 'runnish' at the start of the season, but have since been 'great' ... and we have been better than you, for most of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie ton Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 look at mikes stats...we were as you put it 'runnish' at the start of the season, but have since been 'great' ... and we have been better than you, for most of the season. Yes, so great. Still below us but great. We are rubbish yet above you... strange turn of events. Maybe we can be rubbish enough to win the european cup, I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 We are rubbish yet above you... strange turn of events. Maybe we can be rubbish enough to win the european cup, I hope so. Curiously Charlie if you do a search of this thread you'll find the only person who's referred to Liverpool as rubbish, even ironically (or a Freudian slip perhaps?), is you. Sarcasm doesn't work well when the target is imaginary, comes across more like paranoia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 In my opinion 4th place depends on 2 factors, The Yak and Torres, if one loses form or gets injured the other will pip 4th place. Its our £11m man against your £26m man! As stated before, we have exceeded expectation this season and RS are well below expectation, whatever happens we have had a good season and you have had a bad...the only question is can you keep 4th place and stop bad becoming disastorous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) no you don't get it. look below ManU 41 Chelsea 40 Everton 40 Arsenal 39 Liverpool 33 We are above you over this period. We were rubbish at the start, but have been great since, you've been inconsistent you might say rubbish but had a head start because of our start. So when you say you've been rubbish and us great, that's not exactly accurate, it's not that simple. we've been rubbish too, so when you say it's a matter of perspective, is it? you're ahead of us on goal difference (don't deserve to be, but that's a different story) we've both been poor at times, we've both been great at times, but at this stage in the season, both having ups and downs we've matched you. not a matter of you being below par or us playing above ourselves or anything like that, it's simply we've pretty much been your equal always an excuse with RS, we've had bad form or whatever. it's fine when you win a champions league through good fortune, but the moment your rivals are anywhere near you, there's always something that needs saying. few goals in it but the same points, we've matched you, enough said. Edited March 6, 2008 by CraccerC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie ton Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'm saying that it's perception, you've been going great guns, that's the general perception and we've been absolutely hounded because of how bad we've done (with our massive 3 losses this season). Regardless if this is your level or if you are overachieving in the league, one thing is for sure - we are massively underachieving and the only reason we are not still in the race is because of the inability to turn draws into wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 then you're not underachieving, you're not good enough. simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie ton Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 it's fine when you win a champions league through good fortune Well, I'll tell you something, because you clearly don't get it - you don't get to two european cup finals in three seasons through good fortune. That is the most blinkered of all comments (although the jagielka/carsley thing does come close) but the moment your rivals are anywhere near you, there's always something that needs saying. few goals in it but the same points, we've matched you, enough said. Enough said for you, that's for sure. What needs to be added is that it's only three quarters through the season and you've got to play us at anfield. So if you want the imaginary trophy for getting fourth place, you've got a long way to go and 30 points to fight for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie ton Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 then you're not underachieving, you're not good enough. simple No, we're underachieving in the league. That's clear to any fan that doesn't hate the club or harbour any resentment for our achievements. We are above you. We have 10 games to go. Start bragging when you've done something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 you weren't fortunate last year, but the year you won it were, you're blinkered if you think otherwise and to your latest garbage... why do you always have to bring it back to us, we're doing our own thing and we're pleased with how we're doing, we've not spent ridiculous sums trying to achieve nothing, we're managing something called progress. we're not bragging, we're just please with how the team is coming on. you're 4th, how is that underachieving? you're not as good as the top 3, you're expected to be above the rest, so don't give me that, fact is, you're overrated. you rely heavily on 2 players, and although other teams man united included rely on players, they can still pull out results without them, hence why you're 4th. so i don't think you are underachieving, you're just not as good as you think you are. dirk kuyt plays, do i need to go further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 ....the only reason we are not still in the race is because of the inability to turn draws into wins. Hate to mention it but you managed it at Goodison, with a little help. And at Villa And at Derby And at home to 'Boro And, if you think about it very hard, as every game starts at 0-0, Derby could claim (with just as much credibity as you) that the only reason they're not still in the running for the title is their inability to turn draws into wins. Your logic reminds me of an old song lyric, "I could be a millionaire, if I had the money." And you didn't answer why you started referring to Liverpool as "rubbish." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'd rather win a european trophy and finish 5th this year....to be honest! Build on that next season, and push on then for 3rd/4th!......we may have far less money than the present top 4, but were not exactly far behind them are we? There's a lot of inner turmoil going on at a couple of those above us.......keep our spirit and build on this good season and just see what happens. luckypool fans will never admit the massive amounts of luck they have had over the last few years.....why would they?........would we? Have to smile when they profess to be the best fans around .....come on!that must go to the fans of teams who have no luck and no money...and no I don't mean us! I think the world is infact seeing their fans as some of the worst and most fickle around....and boy do they need that 4th place!..............we don't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Everton manager David Moyes has aimed a swipe at local rivals Liverpool saying he expected them to win the title - or at least finish runners-up - this season. Just hours after returning from the disappointment of losing an Uefa Cup tie to Fiorentina Moyes has to turn his attention immediately to the race for fourth spot in the Premier League. Everton are at struggling Sunderland on Sunday but Moyes heaped more pressure on Liverpool - who moved into fourth by beating West Ham 4-0 in midweek - by underlining the Reds' underachievement this campaign. The Scot, named Barclays manager of the month for February, insists fourth place for Liverpool is a failure for the Anfield club. "I thought Liverpool would finish first or second this season with the additions they made; I felt they would come very close to winning the championship," said Moyes. "I think that it cannot be seen as success if Liverpool finish fourth, if Everton finish fourth then that is success. "But it cannot be seen as success for them. Not for a side who set out to win the title or certainly come second. "They have spent accordingly to win the title, so for them not to qualify for the Champions League is a serious problem, while it would not be for us. "We don't budget for that - maybe in the future we might - but not at present. "We can't really be expected to finish above Liverpool, they are the favourites. "So if you'd said to me that with 10 games to go we would be level on points with them and they would only be ahead on goal difference I would have certainly taken that situation. "I don't even think it is a two-horse race. Aston Villa, Portsmouth, Blackburn and Manchester City can do it. We have been on a terrific run but so have the rest. "There have not been many defeats for that group so I believe it will go all the way to the wire. "Maybe somebody can win seven of the 10 and that would put them right in there with a chance. "We relish the opportunity to try to prove we can be as good or close to the so-called bigger teams. We have done it before, it is not new to us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavier Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 luckypool fans will never admit the massive amounts of luck they have had over the last few years.....why would they?........would we? Every team has had lucky breaks in the past. Dont think we are any different. We were lucky not to concede penos when we beat you this season but so were you last year when Alonso was hacked down and held completely en route to one of your goals. Its not fair sometimes but it does even out. --- 4th place is going to be a difficult one and the Derby game at Anfield could well be the difference. A win for either team and it becomes even more tougher for the other one to come back because of the recent form shown in the league by both sides. Europe could be an important factor too. If our teams go out in this coming round, will a lot of built of hopes be dashed such that league form is affected? Or if we move on further into the competition will league form be sacrificed for Europe? Could be an important factor in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 We are not in the same position as you tho Xavier, you are fortunate to be able to rotate and to rest a couple, where as we just have to put (if we can keep them fit) the same eleven on the pitch to play every game. God bless Rafa the Rotater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavier Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 The problem isnt rotation though is it? The problem is that our squad isnt good enough to win the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 This Is Our Season!! Go Away Kopites Go And Moan Sumwere Else. Liverpool Are Just Lucky. And The 2 Playeers U Rely On Most Are Divers!! Everythin Alls Goes For You But When You Get A Draw Against Sum1 Like Wigan U Slag The Club Off Till The Hilt Its Sack The Manager Sack Everyone But Wen You Win Its Wev Got The Best Manager In The World. Can I Just Say You Seem To Not Lik These Americans But Alls They Have Done Is Giving Ur Overweight Arrogant Manager Transfer Funds Beyond Belief And Buy You This Stadium!! Liverpool Fans You Dnt No How Lucky You Are!! O And Another Thing U Always Seem To Have This Hunch Were Your Fans Are The Best In The World!! Well If You Had Had The 20 Years Like Everton Have Had You Would Not Have Had Any Fans Left Fickle People Theses Reds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 This Is Our Season!! Go Away Kopites Go And Moan Sumwere Else. Liverpool Are Just Lucky. And The 2 Playeers U Rely On Most Are Divers!! Everythin Alls Goes For You But When You Get A Draw Against Sum1 Like Wigan U Slag The Club Off Till The Hilt Its Sack The Manager Sack Everyone But Wen You Win Its Wev Got The Best Manager In The World. Can I Just Say You Seem To Not Lik These Americans But Alls They Have Done Is Giving Ur Overweight Arrogant Manager Transfer Funds Beyond Belief And Buy You This Stadium!! Liverpool Fans You Dnt No How Lucky You Are!! O And Another Thing U Always Seem To Have This Hunch Were Your Fans Are The Best In The World!! Well If You Had Had The 20 Years Like Everton Have Had You Would Not Have Had Any Fans Left Fickle People Theses Reds Does it not get tiresome having to put a capital letter at the beginning of every word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 It wasn't luck that made Raffa buy Torres!.......it was knowledge of the player and having the funds to buy him (although having the money to buy him is a tad lucky)...so fair play to Raffa. Is it lucky having probably the best (or certainly one of) players of his generation to come through your youth ranks?......could be called luck, but every team has that possibility, look at Rooney!.........(meaning Gerrard) BUT.....The Bolton goalkeeper throwing the ball in last week, just as Bolton were making a game of it.......or the"freak" goal today against Newcastle...to finally break their spirit does I think owe more than just a tad to luck! They certainly seem to get huge amounts of luck and ref's decisions......but I would love just the same to happen to us!So good luck to them! I'd like luckypool to finish 4th...............Everton 3rd......and Chelsea 5th! But we probably just haven't got the money, luck or experience to do that! surely though pound for pound......Moyes and Everton have to be a top team....Smallest squad, least money, probably (though can't be proved) the hardest done by with decisions ie no penalties and things like AJ's goal against Blackburn.......With all things taken into account, Moyes deserves not just manager of the month but the season! We got rolled over by a very good Italian team in midweek.....get over it, even if we can't get it back at Goodison, then next season we will be one year wiser, and back in europe. To our red friends!.......you will probably get fourth!.......you HAVE to get fourth.But where you've really let yourselves down is with the American owners!......you wanted them when you thought they could BUY you the championship!!!!!........So what the money they gave Raffa for Torres etc, was not theirs.....that's what Man Utd Yank owners did.....they are going to build you a stadium!......ok!not as flash as you wanted....tough! So When the penny dropped and you realised, that although they had ways of getting money brought into the club!......it wasn't enough to BUY the title within the next couple of years, what did you all do?........Whine, cry, protested, wrote banners, wrote death threats.....to the owners AND their families.........pleaded for the wonderfull Arabs to come and give you enough money to BUY the title NEXT season!!!!!!!................probably the sickest and saddest episode in football history as yet! Every neutral fan around my way seems to want nothing more than Everton to finish 4th above luckypool.......you've become the most disliked club in Britain. IF........IF the Arab money does come pouring in and you manage to buy a couple of titles and fluke a couple of cups........Then God help English football. I guess Everton will continue to fight and push you all the way.......with Moyes, British and local players.........and will pound for pound still be the best in the Prem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zequist Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 This battle looks like it's going all the way to the wire, and even at 8 pts back after our win today Villa aren't out of it yet. Everton's run-in (56 pts, 9 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing - @Fulham, West Ham, Derby, @Birmingham, Newcastle Any points are a bonus - Chelsea, @Arsenal Five we "should" win, two we "should" lose. Key games will be @Liverpool and Aston Villa. But we already knew that. Liverpool's run-in (56 pts, 9 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing (for them) - Reading, Blackburn, @Fulham, @Birmingham, Man City Any points are a bonus - @ManU, @Arsenal Same as us, they have five they "should" win and two they "should" lose. Key games will be against us (natch) and @Tottenham to end the season. Aston Villa's run-in (48 pts, 10 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing (for them) - Boro, Sunderland, Bolton, @Derby, Birmingham, Wigan, @West Ham Any points are a bonus - @ManU Seven they "should" win and only one they "should" lose. Their two key games are against us and @Portsmouth next weekend. Birmingham is also a key game of sorts only because, even though they're better on paper, derbys can be so unpredictable (just ask ManU!). All that's based on current form, of course, and three weeks from now we may be looking back on a rash of injuries or bad form for one of these teams and have lowered expectations for them. On the other hand, we could very well see a 70-point team forced to resort to the Intertoto Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 What I find amazing is that we're only ten points off the top of the league. Last year we finished 31points behind United. In 04/05 we finished fourth 34points behind Chelsea. Stunning progress surely? Our record against all but the "four" must be the best in the league.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zequist Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Once again Mike, you got my curiosity up... 1. Arsenal: 18-1-7 (W-L-D), 61 points against the other 16. 2. Man U: 18-4-3, 57 points against the other 16. 3. Chelsea: 17-1-5, 56 points against the other 16. 4. Us: 17-3-4, 55 points against the other 15. 5. Liverpool: 15-2-8, 53 points against the other 16. We're 4th-best on that list. But if you take out the above's results against us so that all five teams are comparing strictly against the teams placed 6th or lower, we're tied for 2nd-best against that group. 1. Arsenal: 17-1-7, 58 points 2t. Chelsea: 17-1-4, 55 points 2t. Everton: 17-3-4, 55 points 4. Man U: 16-4-3, 51 points 5. Liverpool: 14-2-8, 50 points One other thing I checked that I was curious about: how many times each team has done the double on other teams so far this season. As it turns out, we're currently tied for the lead in that category in most likely the whole league (though I didn't want to get into checking all the other teams - we're definitely tied for the lead among the top five at least) Man U: 5 doubles so far (vs. Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, Birmingham, & Fulham) Everton: 5 doubles (vs. Man City, Boro, Wigan, Sunderland, & Bolton) Arsenal: 4 doubles (vs. Man City, West Ham, Spurs, & Fulham) Chelsea: 3 doubles (vs. West Ham, Reading, & Birmingham) Liverpool: 3 doubles (vs. Sunderland, Bolton, & Derby) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Knew I could rely on you JD. This... 1. Arsenal: 17-1-7, 58 points2t. Chelsea: 17-1-4, 55 points 2t. Everton: 17-3-4, 55 points 4. Man U: 16-4-3, 51 points 5. Liverpool: 14-2-8, 50 points ....is conclusive proof that (as far as the other fifteen teams are concerned) Everton are every bit as big a challenge as the "big" clubs. If we can just get in amongst the others on a regular basis, and we've proved on occasion that we can do it, we can be right up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Very useful performance by 'Boro tonight, two points dropped by Villa and that was a banker for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnno Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) On a side note, just in case we dont finish in the top 5, there's still a chance of UEFA cup qualification via the UEFA Fair Play league, of which england currently lies top (link). As things currently stand (link), we are 5th in the Premier League fair play table, behind ManU, Tottenham, Shite and Arsenal - who all have/are likely to qualify by other means. That would give the place to us. Something I found interesting about the points system (although I dont see it measured in the premier league fair play table): "Behaviour of the crowd: minimum 1 point, maximum 5 points Encouragement of teams by shouting, singing, etc. may have a positive influence on the atmosphere. The spectators are, however, expected to respect the opposing team and the referee. The should appreciate the performance of the opposition even if they emerge as the winners. The must in no way intimidate or frighten the opposing team, the referee, or opposing supporters. This item is applicable only if a substantial number of fans of the team concerned are present." Edited March 16, 2008 by johnno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojunkie21 Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Just an update on the current situation (was bored and pissed off!); just amended Jd's earlier post and added Portsmouth & Man city's threats. The injuries/fatigue really afftected us today and i just hope its not the start of a bad run of form; fingers crossed; come one moyesy you need to get them all fired up and remotivated - hopefully a whole weeks training should get them all firing again Liverpool's run-in (59 pts, 8 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing (for them) - Blackburn, @Fulham, @Birmingham, Man City Any points are a bonus - @ManU, @Arsenal Same as us, they have four they "should" win and two they "should" lose. Key games will be against us and @Tottenham to end the season. Everton's run-in (56 pts, 8 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing - West Ham, Derby, @Birmingham, Newcastle Any points are a bonus - Chelsea, @Arsenal Four we "should" win, two we "should" lose. Key games will be @Liverpool and Aston Villa. But we already knew that. Portsmouth's run-in (50 pts, 8 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing (for them) - Wigan, Newcastle, Blackburn, @Boro, Fulham, Key games will be @spurs this saturday, @ West Ham, @ Man City Aston Villa's run-in (49 pts, 8 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing (for them) - Sunderland, Bolton, @Derby, Wigan, @West Ham Any points are a bonus - @ManU Five they "should" win and only one they "should" lose. Key games are against us and home to Birmingham(derby). Manchester City's Run in (48 pts, 8 games left): Less than 3 points is disappointing (for them) - @Bolton, @Birmingham, @Sunderland, Fulham, @Boro Any points a bonus - Chelsea, @Liverpool Key game Portsmouth Given injuries atm I'm getting increasingly nervous about Portmouth's threat as they have a strong squad (including a rejuvenized Defoe!) and there run-in is the easiest. Even though Shitteh won today can't see them coming close with the amount of away games they've got against relegation battlers. Discuss.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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