MikeO Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 This would be my list....be interested to see yours . Yobo, Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Stubbs, Neville, Yakubu, Baines, Jagielka, Pienaar, Howard, Fellaini, Saha, Heitinga. Wright (but Wenger made the same mistake), Kroldrup (got most of the money back), Davies (again recouped money), McFadden (made good profit though), Beattie (debatable, top scorer one year and again got most of the money back), Johnson (again debatable, didn't live up to hopes but we sold him on for a profit), VDM (fair cop). Jury still out on some (Billy, Distin). Those are his most significant signings I think (probably missed some)....record stands up against anyone for me. Posted elsewhere but bears repeating...from The Guardian after the United game... "This has been a transformation as comprehensive as Arsène Wenger's refashioning of the lingering George Graham era: eight years ago in Moyes's first game in charge he picked a midfield of Tony Hibbert, Lee Carsley, Scot Gemmill and Thomas Gravesen. On Saturday his midfield was made up entirely of neat, skilful ball-players, three of whom were 5ft 7in or under. Diniyar Bilyaletdinov, Steven Pienaar, Leon Osman and Mikel Arteta more than matched the visitors for invention. Add the injured Marouane Fellaini and Tim Cahill and Everton have arguably the best midfield in the country (perhaps behind only Chelsea)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Whether its europe or not football is football. Eleven aside its a simple game. Thursday was horrible and yes its frustrating that were not going further in competitons but we should all be thankful Davey is in charge of us. Christ knows where we would be without him. I agree with the bit in bold (and the rest but thats not the subject of this reply ). If we had got in their faces, pressured the ball high up the pitch and made sure we didnt leave Saha isolated we would have ripped that Sporting team apart, as we would have with Liverpool and Birmingham. Instead we sat back, only pressed from well within our half and gave them the chance to play how they wanted and dominate (or at least control) the game. I noticed in the 1st sporting game that we sat back quite a lot, especially after Cahill went off. I think Moyes has got it into his head that Everton should play the European way of sitting back, soaking up pressure and then trying to counter attack, or play slow possession at the back. This is what European teams are used to and therefore know how to play against. Players that are used to having time on the ball dont like being closed down (just look at most Euro imports to the EPL, they always take a while to adapt to the pace aka Billy!) and to not do that to foreign teams is criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 This would be my list....be interested to see yours . Yobo, Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Stubbs, Neville, Yakubu, Baines, Jagielka, Pienaar, Howard, Fellaini, Saha, Heitinga. Wright (but Wenger made the same mistake), Kroldrup (got most of the money back), Davies (again recouped money), McFadden (made good profit though), Beattie (debatable, top scorer one year and again got most of the money back), Johnson (again debatable, didn't live up to hopes but we sold him on for a profit), VDM (fair cop). Jury still out on some (Billy, Distin). Those are his most significant signings I think (probably missed some)....record stands up against anyone for me. Posted elsewhere but bears repeating...from The Guardian after the United game... "This has been a transformation as comprehensive as Arsène Wenger's refashioning of the lingering George Graham era: eight years ago in Moyes's first game in charge he picked a midfield of Tony Hibbert, Lee Carsley, Scot Gemmill and Thomas Gravesen. On Saturday his midfield was made up entirely of neat, skilful ball-players, three of whom were 5ft 7in or under. Diniyar Bilyaletdinov, Steven Pienaar, Leon Osman and Mikel Arteta more than matched the visitors for invention. Add the injured Marouane Fellaini and Tim Cahill and Everton have arguably the best midfield in the country (perhaps behind only Chelsea)." agree with most of good transfers although felli has alot more to do to justify his 15mill fee as for poor signings li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden. thats alot of shite in a short time.and i idn't put in wright or Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 kroldrup vdm beattie would suggest he has bought a few doozies As I said there isnt a manager on the planet who has got every signing right I did promise myself a while back that I would just ignore your posts but this thread is that ridiculous I couldnt help myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 As I said there isnt a manager on the planet who has got every signing right I did promise myself a while back that I would just ignore your posts but this thread is that ridiculous I couldnt help myself just read the posts lots of people pointing out moyes weaknesses 1 fella wants him to get an assistant for euroopean games shows alot of faith that after 8 years in the job he needs an assistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 agree with most of good transfers although felli has alot more to do to justify his 15mill fee as for poor signings li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden. thats alot of shite in a short time.and i idn't put in wright or Johnson Li tie, Beattie, Davies, Kilbane, McFadden, Wright and Johnson aren't shite, I'd say more like average! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Li tie, Beattie, Davies, Kilbane, McFadden, Wright and Johnson aren't shite, I'd say more like average! still leaves 15 in the poop section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 I think if we're going to look at Moyes' list of signings objectively we need to look at a few more things. First of all, loans should be kept separate from permanent transfers as they cost the club less (or nothing). Second of all we ought to include the price of each transfer as well as how much they were sold for (if applicable). Third, there needs to be a comparison between Moyes and another "top" manager...say Benitez, or Ferguson. I know for a fact Fergie has made a few really poor signings (see: Berbatov). The Waiter has clearly been worse in transfer dealings than Moyes (I think he has largely been worse at chosing who/when to sell than buy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden. The Chinese cost us (effectively) nothing; Arnoux has never played so how can you judge (and cost nothing anyway); Jo we didn't buy; Castillo and Gardner were purely cover, never going to be first choices; Bosnar and da Silva were cheap (free?) punts that didn't pay off; Kilbane played more than 100 games and wasn't that bad; we didn't buy Jeffers; Plessis cost nothing; Rodrigo the same I think. Said? McFadden played more than 100 games for us, did a decent job at times and we made a 400% profit when we sold him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 I think if we're going to look at Moyes' list of signings objectively we need to look at a few more things. First of all, loans should be kept separate from permanent transfers as they cost the club less (or nothing). Second of all we ought to include the price of each transfer as well as how much they were sold for (if applicable). Third, there needs to be a comparison between Moyes and another "top" manager...say Benitez, or Ferguson. I know for a fact Fergie has made a few really poor signings (see: Berbatov). The Waiter has clearly been worse in transfer dealings than Moyes (I think he has largely been worse at chosing who/when to sell than buy). no moyes has signed 23+ poop players in 8 years thats 3 a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Your definition of poor is quite strong. Keep in mind those poor players were all involved in games and dealings that, over the course of Moyes' 8 years, have brought us from relegation fodder to European regulars. Get your head checked. Edited February 27, 2010 by bluenoseyankee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 agree with most of good transfers although felli has alot more to do to justify his 15mill fee as for poor signings li tie,li weifeng,beattie,vdm,davies,arnoux,jo twice,castillo,gardner,da silva,spencer,bosnar,kilbane,kroldrup,plessis,rodrigo,said,jeffers,mcfadden. thats alot of shite in a short time.and i idn't put in wright or Johnson Your list just goes to show how clueless you are Jo,Castillo, Jeffers and Gardener were only ever on loan so are hardly transfer disasters, Li Tie was quality until he got injured and we got him for buttons anyway Li Weifeng was part of the sponsorship deal with Kiejan Rodrigo was also only here on loan and was tipped for big things until he got a serious knee injury after a couple of games and never recovered, hardly Moyse's fault Kilbane was a success and helped the side tremendously early on but then as we improved he was shipped on so I would say he was a good signing Spencer, Arnoux, Bosnar, Said and Plessis were all kids he picked up for buttons to take a look at again can hardly be described as transfer howlers Mcfadden was sold for four times what we paid for him AJ was signed for £8.5M and sold for £10.5M so again a profit and again I would say he was a success at the time Beattie was tipped for the England World Cup squad when he finished top scorere for us in 2006 and we only lost £1.5M on him anyway In his 8 years at Everton he has turned us from relegation fodder to regular European qualifiers and has actually made a profit in his transfer dealings during that time so get your head out of your arse and give him a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Your list just goes to show how clueless you are Jo,Castillo, Jeffers and Gardener were only ever on loan so are hardly transfer disasters, Li Tie was quality until he got injured and we got him for buttons anyway Li Weifeng was part of the sponsorship deal with Kiejan Rodrigo was also only here on loan and was tipped for big things until he got a serious knee injury after a couple of games and never recovered, hardly Moyse's fault Kilbane was a success and helped the side tremendously early on but then as we improved he was shipped on so I would say he was a good signing Spencer, Arnoux, Bosnar, Said and Plessis were all kids he picked up for buttons to take a look at again can hardly be described as transfer howlers Mcfadden was sold for four times what we paid for him AJ was signed for £8.5M and sold for £10.5M so again a profit and again I would say he was a success at the time Beattie was tipped for the England World Cup squad when he finished top scorere for us in 2006 and we only lost £1.5M on him anyway In his 8 years at Everton he has turned us from relegation fodder to regular European qualifiers and has actually made a profit in his transfer dealings during that time so get your head out of your arse and give him a break i think you'llfind he spent about 30mill net and we won't be in europe next season. so as i said he has been good but as he gone as far as he can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 30 mil net? In 8 years? That is buttons compared to ANY other club in the Prem. The fact is we're challenging for Europe every season. Even IF we don't make Europe this term, it is not because Moyes has taken us as far as he can...it is because we played the first half of the season with between 6-14 injuries. Get a clue. Next year, with all fit (or no more than 1 or 2 injuries) we should be challenging top 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 30 mil net? In 8 years? That is buttons compared to ANY other club in the Prem. The fact is we're challenging for Europe every season. Even IF we don't make Europe this term, it is not because Moyes has taken us as far as he can...it is because we played the first half of the season with between 6-14 injuries. Get a clue. Next year, with all fit (or no more than 1 or 2 injuries) we should be challenging top 3-4. comeback next october and apologise for that if im wrong i'll apologise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheedysheedysheedy Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 comeback next october and apologise for that if im wrong i'll apologise Look at the number of teams who've spent similar or less who are now languishing in championship/league 1 even league 2.To suggest he has taken us as far as he can on his budget is pathetic, the fact that he has taken us to a consistent top half finish is a miracle! if you really think we should sack Moyes and bring in another manager who will win us the league with no money then you are abviously a moron whose only experience of football is computer games or Roy of the Rovers. This whole thread should be deleted it's absolutely ridiculous!! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) Moyes paid next to nothing for the likes of Jags, Lescott, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and not to mention Saha ( shrewd business anyone?!!). All of the above are worth a hell of a lot more than we bought them for, so in that respect the ASSETS on our field are unbelievable compared to our outgoings. Not forgetting that Moyes has blooded in youth players that under other managers may have never had the chance ( Rooney,Rodwell,Anichebe,Vaughan,Gosling). take a look at the red Shite, when was the last time they brought in a player from their youth system?!! with the exception of the right back thats played a couple of european games this season, i cant think of any for the last 3-5 years ( i'll happily be corrected here. Instead they'Everton spent literally millions and millions on "prospects". Yet the youth players that moyes has brought in have become squad members capable of competing in this league.Clubs like Liverpool, Tottenham, Sunderland, Man Utd etc etc spend MILLIONS on bringing in youth players in the hope that they may one day become great players. Moyes has done what was needed, he brought in players that can perform NOW and let the youngsters be slowly integrated in the squad. As for teams like ourselves that have been " knocking on the door" of the top four for a few seasons, take a look at what happened to Tottenham when they replaced Jol. Im sure that was because he'd " taken them as far as he could", yet the following two seasons were a disaster when he left. Another notable team is Newcastle. Bobby Robson maybe "took them as far as he could" and got replaced, you may have noticed they no longer feature in our league table!! Im pretty sure that we are all in agreement, so this renders the thread a bit pointless. Although it has been quite nice to sit down and admire Moyes' good work ( and yes, ponder on his downfalls..which are few and are far between in comparison). Edited February 28, 2010 by MoyesForPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Writer Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Moyes paid next to nothing for the likes of Jags, Lescott, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and not to mention Saha ( shrewd business anyone?!!). All of the above are worth a hell of a lot more than we bought them for, so in that respect the ASSETS on our field are unbelievable compared to our outgoings. Not forgetting that Moyes has blooded in youth players that under other managers may have never had the chance ( Rooney,Rodwell,Anichebe,Vaughan,Gosling). take a look at the red Shite, when was the last time they brought in a player from their youth system?!! with the exception of the right back thats played a couple of european games this season, i cant think of any for the last 3-5 years ( i'll happily be corrected here. Instead they'Everton spent literally millions and millions on "prospects". Yet the youth players that moyes has brought in have become squad members capable of competing in this league.Clubs like Liverpool, Tottenham, Sunderland, Man Utd etc etc spend MILLIONS on bringing in youth players in the hope that they may one day become great players. Moyes has done what was needed, he brought in players that can perform NOW and let the youngsters be slowly integrated in the squad. As for teams like ourselves that have been " knocking on the door" of the top four for a few seasons, take a look at what happened to Tottenham when they replaced Jol. Im sure that was because he'd " taken them as far as he could", yet the following two seasons were a disaster when he left. Another notable team is Newcastle. Bobby Robson maybe "took them as far as he could" and got replaced, you may have noticed they no longer feature in our league table!! Im pretty sure that we are all in agreement, so this renders the thread a bit pointless. Although it has been quite nice to sit down and admire Moyes' good work ( and yes, ponder on his downfalls..which are few and are far between in comparison). This is the main point I think, when you change managers, those managers want to bring in their own players, get players to play in different systems and/or positions. There's always a transition period and it always costs money; none of which are we abundantly endowed with. Additionally, one of the main reasons for our success has been the stability of not changing managers every time something seems to not be going our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Additionally, one of the main reasons for our success has been the stability of not changing managers every time something seems to not be going our way. THIS. #1 Reason I am a supporter of Bill Kenwright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philinsuffolk Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Milky is of course entitled to his opinion - it's just a case that his opinion is a minority one. I pray to God that he never wins big on the Euro Millions and buys the club as you would be a nightmare Chairman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Milky is of course entitled to his opinion - it's just a case that his opinion is a minority one. I pray to God that he never wins big on the Euro Millions and buys the club as you would be a nightmare Chairman! I just thank God, that he wasn't chairman around the time Kendall was struggling in the early 80's. Just think a lucky scrappy win on Thursday, and we wouldn't be having this pretty stupid conversation. His need to bring up signings from years back show his determination to stick the knife in. When Moyes took over his first task was to get Everton out of a rut, keep them away from the bottom end of the table.....I'd say he's done just that, then a pretty much impossible task.....try and break into the top 4, with what we have to spend....WELL he only went and did just that!...Then Davey Moyes, can you, with a very small squad and not much money keep us up the top end, not much hope but have a go!... a couple of 5th's and such like, kinda was as much as we could hope for really. Just lately, a cup semi against Chelsea and a cup final against the same....and we always seem to have bloody injuries! THIS season......the worst injury crisis yet, on top of our poor start because of this and maybe the Lescott problem, WE NOW have lost our form player Fellaini for the rest of the season, Cahills injured and Arteta and Jags are hardly up and running.We are trying to bed in a difficult Russian and an on loan Donovan.... .....Give the man (Moyes) a fuc%ing break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 ^^^ a very good post ^^^^ I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 i don't think i have evr said he should be sacked rather that he should consider his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 i don't think i have evr said he should be sacked rather that he should consider his position. Why should he consider his position, when his full squad is available he's made us the best team outside the big money boys....and were even starting to beat them. OH!......Sure this season's slightly off target, but then we all know about injuries.. .....well except maybe you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 No offense meant Milky, but your opinions (which you are as entitled to as any of us) seem to be totally different to everyone else. Do you think therefore you may be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky71 Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 No offense meant Milky, but your opinions (which you are as entitled to as any of us) seem to be totally different to everyone else. Do you think therefore you may be wrong? As it is my opinion i can't be wrong. and also if you look back through this thread alot ofpeople actually agree with my points about his tactical naievity his use of substitutions and his lack of belief in his squad. we still haven't beaten a top four team away from home during his 8 year reign which is appalling. I am not denying he has done avery good job for us but question if he has the motivational skills to drag us any further. Lets not also forget he has been given the funds to purchase record signings most years including a 15million pound signing. Not many other teams have spent that on one player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) Milky take a look at Moysies transfer dealings and explain to me in what way are they suspect TRANSFERS IN Yobo £5M Li Tie £450k li Wei Feng loan Rodrigo £1.5M McBride loan Said loan Jeffers loan Martyn free Mcfadden £1.25M Kilbane £1M Bent £450k Cahill £1.5M Bosnar free Beattie £6M Plessis free Ruddy £250k Davies £4M Kroldrup £5M Arteta £2M Neville £3.5M Ferrari loan AVM £1.5M Stubbs free Westerveld loan Spencer unisclosed AJ £8.6M Lescott £5M Da Silva free Fernandes loan Lukas Jut £1M Jags £4M Baines £5M Wessels free Yak £11.25M Tommy G loan Gosling £1M Piennar £2.05M Jacobsen free Castillo loan Saha free Nash free Felli £15M Jo loan Coleman nominal fee Mustafi nominal fee Bily £10M Distin £5M Niell free Donovan loan Senderos loan TRANSFERS OUT Niell £1M Lescott £24M AJ £10.5M Mcfadden £6M Beattie £4M Naysmith £1M Kroldrup £3.4M Bent £2.5M Chadwick £250k Tommy G £3.5M Rooney £30M Clarke £150k Linderoth £1M Radzinski £1.75M Pembridge £750k Davies £2M Hughes £400k That works out at total spent £101.56M and total received £92.7M So in other words Moysie has "blown" a huge £8.86M since he has been in charge and all he has to show for it is changing us from relegation fodder to European regulars! Edited February 28, 2010 by duncanmckenzieismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 As it is my opinion i can't be wrong. That's rubbish. Opinions can very much be wrong. Your opinion goes contrary to all present evidence. It, therefor, is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohen Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 As it is my opinion i can't be wrong. Of course you can - I'm colour blind and in my opinion the sky is green. That's not right, the sky is blue. However much I argue the sky maybe green to me, the fact of the matter is it is blue and I'm wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kohen Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 That's rubbish. Opinions can very much be wrong. Your opinion goes contrary to all present evidence. It, therefor, is wrong. Same thought went through our brains! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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