Philinsuffolk Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 This is a nightmare decision. Do we sit tight and wait for a site within the city, not knowing when it will come but at least knowing that we keep in the city when the better option arrives. Working in the capital sector, I can tell you that you can assume 10-12% inflaton per year - that's one hell of a lot of money every season that goes by. It starts to become unaffordable at some stage. That is why making the move that is on offer is tempting. The club should be DEMANDING that theCity Council sort this out now. Get a site for us. The revenue to local business is worth it. The City Council should be given 4 months to identify a site. If they can't, then we accept the Kirkby proposal. Or offer all the residents a buy-out deal and re-develop GP - it can be done, though we'd have to find a temporary home for a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 shouldnt have a vote anyway imo fans are or atleast should be loyal in which case it shouldnt matter...theres been plenty of generations before and plenty after...need to do what they see fit for the future of the club ... i think kirkby is a good site from looking at the plans and cant see anything wrong ith it.... wont it still have a liverpool post code...does it really matter that much if its a couple of minutes outside liverpool council I couldnt give a fuck if the location is within Liverpool city council boundries or not that realy doesnt concern me. What realy concerns me over this is Everton signed an exclusivity agreement, did loads of groundwork and now they are out of that agreement (I think, may have been extended??) they are issuing a ballot. The vote is not even the point that concerns me because we all know the people at the top will make the final decision. The point from my perspective is Everton have jumped both feet first into theis Tesco / Kirkby deal without looking into any of the other options now that tells me that someone making the decisions is in this for the good of themselves rather than the club. The fact is if we were doing this for the good of the club then every avenue would be extensivly researched until the prime location was defined. We have not even remotly scratched the surface of what could be on offer! I also think with firm plans and planning permission on either a redevelopment of Goodison or a new self sufficient (i.e not tagged onto a monopolising supermarket chain) stadium we could attract investment to pay for it with the blink of an eye. The tesco deal is only being pushed so hard because the government look down on local councils for selling land directly to tesco as they are being investigated under unfair trading practices. We are being used by Tesco and one, if not more of our major share holders for financial gain!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 i fail to accept that alternative have not been looked into and considered...i think we can count ourselves lucky that tescos (director is it?) is an everton fan and is willing to aid with our development.... true they get a gain out of it as well, but if they didn't it wouldn't be good business..... it's a supermarket anyway each and everyone of us gets used by supermarkets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I also feel isolated on this 1. Being distanced alters both view point & almost feel of right to jump up & down either way. I have odd, wavering feelings regarding several ideas, proposals or possible scenarios. However, I just hope common sense, cool heads & mature debate is conisdered by all parties, without any bloodshed. With any final decison imperatively being the right one for our beloved, now, tommorow & for the future. ( With the total satirist & evil dark creature deep down, wondering if this proposed ballot is a nice deflection the powers that be would rather currently ware than the pressing ISSUE of current lack of progress regarding the squad & the new season fast aporoaching ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 does seem a financially sensible move! Everton reveal 'deal of century' Everton have outgrown current home Goodison Park Everton chief executive Keith Wyness claims "the deal of the century" is in place for a new stadium in Kirkby. A ballot is to be conducted among around 33,000 Everton fans to decide on the stadium, which could open by 2010. But Wyness insists there is no Plan B to the move, which will be helped by £50m from supermarket giant Tesco. He said: "It is an amazing deal. The deal of the century. If the heart rules the head we will never get an opportunity like this again." The stadium will be built on land contributed by Knowsley council and will hold between 50,000 and 55,000 - and will include a Tesco store and shopping centre. Everton claim they will be left with minimal debts from the scheme and they would have around an extra £10m a year in transfer funds. Any cash Everton need to put into project will be offset by naming rights to the new stadium and the sale of Goodison Park, which could raise about £15m. 606: DEBATE I am leaning towards the "No" side ifyaknow Sections of the club's supported have registered their opposition to a move outside the Liverpool city boundaries. But Wyness claims Everton could face serious problems if they stay at Goodison Park. He told the Daily Post: "There is no other site that we have found that will involve the same level of contribution. "We will be left with very little debt at the end of it. The deal compares very favourably with other clubs building new stadiums. We will be getting a very nice stadium for a small amount of money." Wyness added: "There is a long way to go. If the fans vote in favour, which I am confident they will, we still have to go through the planning stages. "There are potential for delays, but if everything goes smoothly, we could be ready by 2010. "If we have to carry on at Goodison, there will be serious issues. "Attendance numbers will go down and then revenue will go down and when that happens, you can't compete. There is no Plan B. There is no other option." The ballot will be run by the Electoral Reform Society, with the result expected at the end of August. The club have already ruled out increasing the capacity at current home Goodison Park and a groundshare with Liverpool is now a non-starter. A protest group, Keep Everton In Our City, has been set up to oppose the move, while the Kirkby Residents Action Group (KRAG) is upset over the idea of having a football stadium in their hometown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 i fail to accept that alternative have not been looked into and considered...i think we can count ourselves lucky that tescos (director is it?) is an everton fan and is willing to aid with our development.... true they get a gain out of it as well, but if they didn't it wouldn't be good business..... it's a supermarket anyway each and everyone of us gets used by supermarkets We publically stated months ago we had signed an exclusivity agreement which ment other options would not be looked into until that agreement expired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) Ian Ross is on the radio talking about it, he says that EFC are the only club in europe that listens properly to it's fans!!!! Fuck Off You Nobhead. :angry2: Edited July 17, 2007 by The Prisoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 This is a good deal for Everton football club - and Tescos and Kirby. A desision has to be made - I can't see a better deal coming along to be honest, and we can afford to dick around given football finances. Tesco's etc where given an exclusive chance to put togehter a proposal and deal - They have come up with something and it looks fine to me. Fair enough, they have got there ar8es into gear to get this exclusivity, and to be fair have come up with from the looks of it a very decent proposal. Never look a gift horse in the mouth I say, one in the hand is worth two in the bush and all that. The 'charatcer' of the ground bang in the middle of a city or residential area I am afraid is the stuff of Hovis adverts. Yes, a retail area can be a bit sterile compared to a character property, but this is 2007 that's the way it is. I think most of what is build these days is that way from housing estates onwards, but that life. if we want to stand alone or have something all the 'period' features, without the retail development then you need to have deep pockets. We haven't got deep pockets. We as much as any club out there need to make the best use of partners in this type of thing. As we have bugger all money. We have got a very good offer on the table - with Kirby who want to get on with it and Tesco's who are a company who can and do deliver. My personnal - lets get on with it and be in the new stadium come 2010. Or we could dick around for a couple of years and find no other or a more expensive option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomness Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I must say you are all putting across good reasons pro and against the move, Which is annoying as i'm still undecided, And i'm still no closer to a decision! your all idiots for having an intellectual dicusion about this! Seriously though my vote remains uncast so one side or the other convince me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) I must say you are all putting across good reasons pro and against the move, Which is annoying as i'm still undecided, And i'm still no closer to a decision! your all idiots for having an intellectual dicusion about this! Seriously though my vote remains uncast so one side or the other convince me! Mate your vote is your own but anyone who votes yes without the club outlining every single opportunity open to them and giving a detailed reason why they have turned their back on each of the other options is selling out. To make any decision corectly without regret you must be well informed, we have not been informed on anything and are being asked to cast a vote which will shape Everton for the next 100 years. I am not against the Kirkby move I just refuse to cast a vote in a bias poll, publish all the information Everton and let me and every other Evertonian make an informed decision rather than scaring people into making a snap decision! The sad thing is that will never happen, we will be forced to vote blind & the majority will stump for Kirkby because they are scared we wont get any other opportunities. From KEIOC. Yesterday Thomas Hughes, Tony Bennet (KEIOC), met renowned architect Trevor Skempton Dip1, RIBA to discuss Tom's plans to re-develop Goodison and sites in and around the City. Ian Macdonald, a shareholder and part of the Everton Independent Blues supporters’ club was also invited to the meeting that lasted over three hours in the City centre. Tom's plans are at a sight line study stage to be developed further. As with all preliminary plans the viability will be discussed and comments will be made from the Cities architects. Trevor was very excited about the plans and sites discussed and has taken the plans away with him to tweak them and pass comment. On the sites to be offered, hopefully by the City Council, Trevor said they could be developed and once any planning permission given investment would follow due to the location and interest of Everton being a major football club and business. But the final say lies ultimately with the custodians of Everton FC, who will be invited to discuss these plans, business studies and sites once finalised. If you Google Trevor Skempton you will find Trevor has an impressive body of work behind him, including developing St James’ Park when it was said it could not be done when the then club's owners then suggested moving to Gateshead. Trevor is currently the Urban Design architect consultant to LCC with the Grosvenor project on his list of building works ongoing. Trevor talked passionately about Everton, his first European away game was in Nuremburg and is a thirty year plus season ticket holder. Trevor loved the Archibald Leitch stands and talked how Glasgow Rangers have kept their spiritual traditions in a newly developed stadium. As we say there is hope and the right professional people are now taking up the baton for real alternatives to the Kirkby project. As developments continue we will keep fellow Blues informed as best we can. We would like to give a special thanks to Trevor and Tom for helping in our quest. Tom has worked for many many hours on his plans to develop Goodison to prove it CAN be done and be made an impressive imposing stadium. There is a “Wow!” factor to them and once the solid imagery on the CAD is finished we hope you agree too. Then there are the other sites as a bonus and an option for all to see sooner rather than later. We will only be moving or redeveloping once. We have to get this right for our long-term future. The last line is exactly my point, lets get the ball rolling but lets not be blinded by the shiney lights and pretty pictures of the very first proposal. Come on Evertonians you wouldnt buy the first house or car you looked at without at least comparing it with a few others!! Edited July 17, 2007 by GoldfishMemory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Anyone seen the free video by Wyness on the official site? Watch that and you'll realise we're deffo going to Kirkby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 I did. I watched it earlier.. the guy who asks the questions does it on evertontv aswelll and he annoys me because he always asks leading questions - some even end in "wasn't it" or "isn't it". Obviously he's not going to ask a difficult question because it's for the official site but a straight question wouldn't go a miss now and again. It's a shame that Goodison Park will be sold on to make financial ends meet. I would be absolutely devastated if we go and it becomes a car park for you know who. In my fantasy world we would move to Kirkby Stadium for 5-10years (especially as the stadium will cost £10million) meanwhile Goodison Park is being redeveloped into a world class standard (similar to Croke Park) but it's not going to happen because the club have to sell GP to be able to afford the Kirkby Stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Hmmmmmmm, I maybe starting to question Wyness particulary in his latest comments: “This summer, we are spending £500,000 – which would normally have gone into players – just to keep steelwork up to the required standard."Yet in a previous release he said:“The money to build the stadium is completely different to the money that goes on the team. This is bricks and mortar." Now to me that is a contradiction..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Now to me that is a contradiction..... Don't think so.The money for a new stadium would be ring-fenced but money needed to maintain Goodison comes out of day to day running costs. Don't see a contradiction there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maghull70 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 To go or not to go??? Redeveloping Goodison is what most of us would prefer or perhaps in an ideal world a new stadium in EVERTON!! But thats not going to happen. My mind changes week to week regarding the move, as with most arguments there are pros and cons. The only thing that has me siding towards Kirkby is that I fear if we dont go for the Kirkby option we will one day end up moving to somewhere like Speke. With most of our support north of the City, Speke would be disastrous. I suppose I'd like us to stay but if the vote is for a move to Kirkby then I'll support the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Don't think so.The money for a new stadium would be ring-fenced but money needed to maintain Goodison comes out of day to day running costs. Don't see a contradiction there. So when we have a new stadium we will have zero maintenance costs...I don't think so. He is saying we have a ground now and money normally for players is being used on the stadium. I bet the situation will be the same in the "new" stadium but he is trying to sway fans to the move with the illusion that the maintenance costs and transfer money will be separate in the "new" staidum. So in one breath "money for staidum is using transfer money" then "money for stadium is spearate from transfer money"...so yes it is a contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Goodison is a money pit - throwing good money after bad at it now. So dead money. A new Stadium with have the capacity to generate vastly increased and valuable revenue. Yes, there on going running and maintenance cost of all buildings/Stadiums even a brand new one. But at Goodison its more than just keeping it fresh and tidy. Money spend on a new stadium is a means to generate more revenue, where as money spent on Goodison is ongoing dead money - so Wyness's comment make perfect sence and are in know means a contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton_Worshiper Posted July 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Just to help some of you out... http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q...ction&meta= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Just to help some of you out...http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q...ction&meta= Don't be a prick. You have your opinion, others have theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J*A*C*K*E*L*Z Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Anyone seen the free video by Wyness on the official site? Watch that and you'll realise we're deffo going to Kirkby. yer i thought that was good made things much clearer and swayed me towards a kirkby move tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 A new Stadium with have the capacity to generate vastly increased and valuable revenue. Not sure I can really see where a new ground can create "vastly"increased revenue! Can someone outline how this will be done!......I wont get a vote,so I haven't read everything about the move,so I could have missed the official view on this matter. What can they do at a new stadium,that they couldn't do at Goodison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuffRob Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 Increased capacity for a start. Then you will have the vastly improved corpporate hospitality revenue on match day. At the minute we are probabley bottom of the pile with regard to this at such a 'famous' club- OK they are the 'prawn sandwich' brigade, but they do come to spend more money. so a few hundrad are more than welcome in my opinion. Then you have the none match day corrparate events and use of the functions. I know in the new Stadum in Swansea - this is vastly popular and generates a fair bit of revenue. You will have a reduced general running cost and general maintanence cost that comes with a brand new state of the art stadium. Provides a potential revenue for none football event - (potential I said) There are probabley a few more revenue streams I haven't thought of. You add them all up, and there is probably a fair revenue over a 12 month period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted July 19, 2007 Report Share Posted July 19, 2007 OK!...Thanks for that RuffRob!Can see you point on a couple of those issues! Yes a 50/55,000 seat stadium would generate extra income IF the stadium was filled to the 40,000+mark every week.If we get a poor start,then the "I didn't want to leave Goodison Park"people will express their dissappointment with maybe a no show........the same could happen to luckypool if they get a bad start!Their glory hunting fans aren't made of what Evertonians are made of!so it could be even worse for them! You will have a reduced general running cost and general maintanence cost that comes with a brand new state of the art stadium Well that will save us some money.....Have they ever made public what it costs to maintain Goodison each year? I thought Goodison had function rooms and restaurants and the like!Don't Evertonians use these?.....would they really rather use ones up the road?maybe! I wonder where the players would prefer....large open stadium,or ones like Goodison with it's atmosphere and enclosed structure. surely teams who play 90% of their games in the big new type stadiums,would find closed in type arenas like Goodison a hard place to come to!!...Personaly I'd like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I really havent made my mind up on all this, the kirby option is too good to turn down But, leaving the citt on its own could turn out to be disasterous Its a hard one P.S. Its not a contradiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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