Coleman

[Ian C]

I agree he's got to learn, and he'll only do that from playing. But what I'm saying is that we can't just stick him in – he has to be brought in gradually and protected. The way some people talk about him you'd think he's been playing at the top level for a couple of seasons and we know he can handle it. He hasn't and we don't.

 

He was catastrophic against Benfica and responded against Spurs a week later. He's proven he can handle it.

 

I don't see how he can pick Hibbert ahead of him. Hibbo's positioning is his weak-link just like Coleman but Hibbo doesn't have Mustard's pace to cover for it.

 

Stick Fellaini in the RCM slot, Pienaar at RM and Bilyaletdinov at LM. Baines can handle Billy's roaming and Pienaar and Felli can cover for Coleman in transition.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He was catastrophic against Benfica and responded against Spurs a week later. He's proven he can handle it.

 

I don't see how he can pick Hibbert ahead of him. Hibbo's positioning is his weak-link just like Coleman but Hibbo doesn't have Mustard's pace to cover for it.

 

Stick Fellaini in the RCM slot, Pienaar at RM and Bilyaletdinov at LM. Baines can handle Billy's roaming and Pienaar and Felli can cover for Coleman in transition.

 

 

Why should we start having to shuffle the midfield around and playing Felli out of position to accomodate him ? At the end of the days its about what is best for Everton that counts not whats best for Coleman

 

The primary role of a RB is to defend and both Hibbert and Neville are better at it than him at the moment. Moyse sees them every day in training and I am more than confident that he knows what he is doing and I trust him to bring Coleman on at the right pace and to play him when he is ready.

 

I have full confidence in Seamus to force his way through and make the jersey his but I just dont think that time has arrived just yet

[Ian C]

How is playing Fellaini at RCM out of position? He plays centre midfield - all I'm saying is make sure he's on the right side rather than the left to cover the space left by Coleman when he attacks. That's what sitting midfielders are for surely.

 

The primary role of a RB is not to defend anymore. If you just defend then you get overwhelmed - you need to have an attacking threat to force the opposing winger to defend or else they'll run off your shoulder all day. We play with 2 centre backs, 2 deep midfielders, 2 wide players who play in the channels and Cahill, Rodwell or Osman in the hole. We have more than enough players covering ourselves in transition. Currently however we have 2 right backs who play, get forward, and put in shite balls from predictable positions, who can't run at defenders, and offer no creativity, while not being particularly pacy or good at defending.

 

Coleman should be first choice against any bottom 10 side and in the cups, no question.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Ian C

[Finn balor]

Thats what does my fucking head in. All of us have griped and moaned how shit we have been in the past. We finally have a squad to oompete and one of the obvious weaknesses is an attacking right back. But no. Wait there we can't have that people want us to be "dependable" instead. Fuck that and fuck the opinion. Lets fuckin go for the juggular! Do people think that with Johnny mopping up at the back if played couldnt fill in? Let teams worry about us for fucks sake! I love Davey with a passion but lets fuckin take the shackles off!!!

[Madmatt]

well, one way oh him getting experiance is playing him on the right wing, which i think would do him wonders. they say that rodders will be a center back and is playing in midfield to gain experiance...why not try the same with Ramos? Even if its 20-30 mins coming off the bench? bale has turned into a fantastic left sided winger as he is simular to colman but playing down the left.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

How is playing Fellaini at RCM out of position? He plays centre midfield - all I'm saying is make sure he's on the right side rather than the left to cover the space left by Coleman when he attacks. That's what sitting midfielders are for surely.

 

The primary role of a RB is not to defend anymore. If you just defend then you get overwhelmed - you need to have an attacking threat to force the opposing winger to defend or else they'll run off your shoulder all day. We play with 2 centre backs, 2 deep midfielders, 2 wide players who play in the channels and Cahill, Rodwell or Osman in the hole. We have more than enough players covering ourselves in transition. Currently however we have 2 right backs who play, get forward, and put in shite balls from predictable positions, who can't run at defenders, and offer no creativity, while not being particularly pacy or good at defending.

 

Coleman should be first choice against any bottom 10 side and in the cups, no question.

 

 

Felli plays DM sitting in front of the back 4

 

I disagree with you about what a defenders primary role is, look how that turned out for Newcastle or how dodgy Arsenal are at the back. If you cant defend your not going to get anywhere

 

I can understand the logic of playing him against the bottom 10 sides and thats probably the way ahead but playing him against the better sides would be suicidal because he would get ripped to shreads and it would probably destroy his confidence

 

As for Tricky Trevs opinion of playing Kamikaze football , if we had a Drogba or a Torres or someone else of that calibre I could posibly understand it but we havent. The who cares if we let 5 in at the back we can go and score 2 ourselves approach would be doomed to failure!

 

I think we all agree that Coleman has what it takes to become a top player but give the lad a chance to develop.

 

As soon as Moyse thinks he is ready he will play him just be patient

Edited August 28, 2010 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[marcopaulo]

Felli plays DM sitting in front of the back 4

 

I disagree with you about what a defenders primary role is, look how that turned out for Newcastle or how dodgy Arsenal are at the back. If you cant defend your not going to get anywhere

 

I can understand the logic of playing him against the bottom 10 sides and thats probably the way ahead but playing him against the better sides would be suicidal because he would get ripped to shreads and it would probably destroy his confidence

 

As for Tricky Trevs opinion of playing Kamikaze football , if we had a Drogba or a Torres or someone else of that calibre I could posibly understand it but we havent. The who cares if we let 5 in at the back we can go and score 2 ourselves approach would be doomed to failure!

 

I think we all agree that Coleman has what it takes to become a top player but give the lad a chance to develop.

 

As soon as Moyse thinks he is ready he will play him just be patient

 

spot on..i'd like coleman to play against weaker sides as mentioned or even tried as a winger against weaker sides with hibbert/neville behind him..two very good defensive players for him to learn off

[Ian C]

He plays to one side in a central 2. That's how it's always been when partnering Arteta. He drops in to cover Arteta if he moves forward but in defence they play alongside each other - not with Felli in behind screening the space.

 

This being patient nonsense will get us nowhere. I could understand it if Neville or Hibbert were actually very good at defending but they're not. They're average at best. I could understand Neville being played because he's a calming influence in the team but with him injured Coleman should be in the team.

 

Oh and as per your Arsenal reference. They have 2 world class wing backs in Clichy and Sagna. The reason Arsenal struggle to do well has been their goals conceeded from set pieces, inability to convert their own set pieces and a massive injury crisis to their small squad playing on too many fronts which robbed them of, among others, Fabregas and Van Persie. Arsenal also are not an attacking team - the same way Spain and Barcelona are not attacking teams. Possesion is inherently defensive. If you're passing it sideways then your opponent cannot score, but neither can you. Hence Spain's numerous 1-0 results at the WC.

 

 

And as for Newcastle they were simply just not playing to any sort of standard - they were a shambles. Interesting to note that since then 7 out of 11 of those relegated players set a new Championship points record and last week beat Aston Villa 6-0.

 

Also could you explain how you consider their 4-4-1-1 as attacking. Every formation has potential in attack but it's how it operates in defence that shows it's attacking intent. A bank of 4 and a bank of 5 from which Nolan steps out if the opposition play it to one of their centre backs.

[marcopaulo]

bit harsh on hibbert and neville saying they're average at best..they not the best full backs in the world but are better than average

[Philinsuffolk]

It's not as exciting as having an attacking full back, but defending is as much an art of the game as attacking. Coleman has been fantastic and deserves his chance, but just be conscious that if he makes a defensive mistake that loses us the game then it doesn't help us or ultimately him.

 

That said, assuming Ashley Young plays for Villa tomorrow it would tell us a great deal about how ready he is defensively - because clearly he is more than ready in terms of going forwards.

 

As for Tony Hibbert, his attacking play and crosses are really poor, but I don't think he should get the severe mauling that he tends to get - he wears the shirt and gives his all.

[marcopaulo]

i think he's attacking has got much better over the last couple months of last season and against wolves from what i saw..defence is always going to be his best quality though..especially his tackling

[Romey 1878]

i think he's attacking has got much better over the last couple months of last season and against wolves from what i saw..defence is always going to be his best quality though..especially his tackling

 

 

His attacking in terms of getting into good positions has improved but his crossing is woeful so he's still just as useless for us going forward really. If he could improve his crossing then he'd have more chance of keeping Coleman on the bench for a while longer.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He plays to one side in a central 2. That's how it's always been when partnering Arteta. He drops in to cover Arteta if he moves forward but in defence they play alongside each other - not with Felli in behind screening the space.

 

This being patient nonsense will get us nowhere. I could understand it if Neville or Hibbert were actually very good at defending but they're not. They're average at best. I could understand Neville being played because he's a calming influence in the team but with him injured Coleman should be in the team.

 

Oh and as per your Arsenal reference. They have 2 world class wing backs in Clichy and Sagna. The reason Arsenal struggle to do well has been their goals conceeded from set pieces, inability to convert their own set pieces and a massive injury crisis to their small squad playing on too many fronts which robbed them of, among others, Fabregas and Van Persie. Arsenal also are not an attacking team - the same way Spain and Barcelona are not attacking teams. Possesion is inherently defensive. If you're passing it sideways then your opponent cannot score, but neither can you. Hence Spain's numerous 1-0 results at the WC.

 

 

And as for Newcastle they were simply just not playing to any sort of standard - they were a shambles. Interesting to note that since then 7 out of 11 of those relegated players set a new Championship points record and last week beat Aston Villa 6-0.

 

Also could you explain how you consider their 4-4-1-1 as attacking. Every formation has potential in attack but it's how it operates in defence that shows it's attacking intent. A bank of 4 and a bank of 5 from which Nolan steps out if the opposition play it to one of their centre backs.

 

 

I think thats pure bollocks about Neville and Hibbert, they are both good defenders

 

The point I was trying to make about Newcastle was that they play with defenders who are good going forward but crap at defending ie Gutierrez, Ryan Taylor

 

I keep saying it Coleman is goiong to be a great player IF Moyse brings him on properly but if you throw him in too soon it could destroy his confidence. I mean if Gary Roberts can make him look like a mug imagine what the likes of Walcott , Young and lennon would do to him

Its all about opinions and I believe all succesful sides are built form having a solid back 4 while you obviously believe those days are over and defending is a thing of the past.

[MikeO]

Not getting involved in this because (as I've said before) the art of defending is not something I claim to know a lot about, but it's an interesting debate and I just know that Seamus excites me a lot .

 

This however made me laugh a bit....

 

The point I was trying to make about Newcastle was that they play with defenders who are good going forward but crap at defending....

....heaven forbid we should play the same way against Villa as Newcastle did eh ?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Not getting involved in this because (as I've said before) the art of defending is not something I claim to know a lot about, but it's an interesting debate and I just know that Seamus excites me a lot .

 

This however made me laugh a bit....

 

 

....heaven forbid we should play the same way against Villa as Newcastle did eh ?

 

 

We were talking about the Newcastle side that got relegated 2 years ago

[MikeO]

We were talking about the Newcastle side that got relegated 2 years ago

I know it wasn't a direct current comparison.....just made me giggle a little. I'm easily amused....early onset dymentia possibly .

[Bailey]

This being patient nonsense will get us nowhere. I could understand it if Neville or Hibbert were actually very good at defending but they're not. They're average at best. I could understand Neville being played because he's a calming influence in the team but with him injured Coleman should be in the team.

 

I mostly agree with this. Neither Neville or Hibbert are that good defensively, in fact I would bet a large percentage of the goals we concede are due to frailties down the right side of defence. I would also argue that both Hibbert and Nevilles use of the ball puts themselves and others under unnecessary pressure, especially Neville.

 

His attacking in terms of getting into good positions has improved but his crossing is woeful so he's still just as useless for us going forward really. If he could improve his crossing then he'd have more chance of keeping Coleman on the bench for a while longer.

 

Completely agree and Id also say his link up play and general decision making has improved. There are times now when he has tried to pick someone out, its just he hasnt quite got the skill level to do it.

 

I think thats pure bollocks about Neville and Hibbert, they are both good defenders

 

Its all about opinions and I believe all succesful sides are built form having a solid back 4 while you obviously believe those days are over and defending is a thing of the past.

 

They are decent defenders but they are exposed most of the time against a quality winger. Hibbert can hold his own 1v1 against most players, but positionally he is suspect! Neville on the otherhand is decent positionally and is ok 1v1 providing he can hack the shit out of them!

 

After hearing Moyes comments today about how he would prefer to win 1-0 than win but conceed, it would seem he would agree with your philosophy and I fully expect Hibbert to start if Neville isnt fit.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news//tm_headline=everton-boss-david-moyes-says-seamus-coleman-could-solve-his-right-midfield-puzzle%26method=full%26objectid=27339347%26siteid=100252-name_page.html

 

 

I bow down to Moyes and his stellar ideas, I wonder why none of us thought of this?

Edited September 25, 2010 by Romey 1878

[MikeO]

I bow down to Moyes and his stellar ideas, I wonder why none of us thought of this?

That's why he gets paid a gazillion £££s a week Mark....to come up with radical solutions that us mere mortals would never think of .

[marcopaulo]

now only 6 weeks til he figures out johnny shouldnt be in midfield and felli should be DM then we're sorted

[Hafnia]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news//tm_headline=everton-boss-david-moyes-says-seamus-coleman-could-solve-his-right-midfield-puzzle%26method=full%26objectid=27339347%26siteid=100252-name_page.html

 

 

I bow down to Moyes and his stellar ideas, I wonder why none of us thought of this?

 

It's quite frightening, I'm actually starting to doubt his credibility, I'm by no means an apologist or a hater but you gotta judge the man based on his current performance, you go on sentiment or history you get relegated.

 

Why is he coming out with this crap? A ten year old in the lower bullens could see that Coleman is our right mid solution, has he not seen bale at spurs?

 

I think he can't see the woods for the trees, he is evidently sticking to his tried and trusted methods from yesteryear, the news is beckford is not Marcus bent and we are not reliant on such a player. I'm gettin to the stage where I'm tired of his inability to see what the fans see. It's not very nice when you are paid thousands of pounds to make important decisions, and some of those decisions could be made by the majority of fans, however seeking a different solution to justify your existence is stubborn and arrogant.

 

The man needs to stop believing his own hype, as unfortunately the press are starting to see what we are, a tactically inept, limited manager. I know that is going to attract some remarks, such as "apart from that what have the Romans done for us" sorry, doesn't wash with me. He could achieve so much more if he sees the problems and solutions quicker, how often have we lost games where he has made subs that appear to be game changing but does it too late?

[marcopaulo]

started on the right today and already looks better than osman! as if it was in doubt! shame its taken moyes so long

[Romey 1878]

Looked very good there today but tired towards the end.

[Hafnia]

started on the right today and already looks better than osman! as if it was in doubt! shame its taken moyes so long

 

Hopefully he may soon realise 451 is not the future before it's too late. Footballs a game you win by scoring goals, two strikers please.......

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Hopefully he may soon realise 451 is not the future before it's too late. Footballs a game you win by scoring goals, two strikers please.......

 

 

We havent got 2 strikers

[Steve_E]

Hopefully he may soon realise 451 is not the future before it's too late.

 

I think most people that are into football tactics will disagree with that statement.

 

Footballs a game you win by scoring goals, two strikers please.......

 

Footballs a game you win by scoring more goals than you concede!

[Romey 1878]

We havent got 2 strikers

 

 

You don't think Beckford's so bad that you don't even class him as a striker, surely?

[Hafnia]

I think most people that are into football tactics will disagree with that statement.

 

I guess you may be into football tactics but just don't have a good understanding of them - Do you think 4-5-1 is the right solution to our goal scoring problem, given that we have had defensive players in advanced positions? With the likes of Beckford and Yak playing the lone striker at times looking like spectators without the team playing to their strengths? We even play this at home when opposing teams pack their defense.

 

Footballs a game you win by scoring more goals than you concede!

 

So you agree that you need to score goals to win a game then?

[marcopaulo]

Moyes' Coleman Hopes - Midfield

 

maybe hope he might get more game time there??

[tint]

Congrats to Coleman on getting called up on International duty!