Memmaclub Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I don't see where we have a stiker "CRISIS". #1 Saha - Proven Prem striker on his day scores goals for fun (french international less than a year ago)injured alot but good cover and sub. #2 Beckford - Getting up to speed in the prem but finished well and maybe a bit of an andy cole but to score 10 goals in your first season when in reality he wasn't first choice I think is a good return. I expect better this season. Just for those 10 surely he can be classed as an average prem striker and would cost 5-7 mil to buy now. #3 Vic - Workhorse glimpses of raw power. For me won't ever be a 20 a season player but does a job if his head is right I would expect 6-7 goals this season as he is ahead of Yak. #4 Yak - 2-3 years ago a top draw striker varying opinions on why he isn't anymore but always the hope he can find his form at this level again. Good goal return for leicester when sent on loan. do other teams at our level have any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think you summed it up perfectly with your individual review of each player. We have no true first choice striker, there is a crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 My personal opinion is if we accept yak is out of it Beckford is the man and I think he can step up this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Saha might as well have been a Defensive mid when he came on. I only remember one run of note, where he passed the last defender, at points he was deeper than Fellaini on the field. He is lazy. Vic needed to score last night, because his performance would have seen him substitued. The only thing he did throughout the whole first half was win a free-kick! Overall he held the ball up 3/4 times but nothing of note came from it. I could have scored that goal yesterday, all he had to do was make contact with the ball. What i was more suprised about was him being in that position, i don't think i've ever seen him run in, anticipating a spill or a low cross. He's a "forward" who operates in front of the defenders, which when you have one up top doesn't really help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We need a striker and yes we have a striker crisis - Beckford is the only one who offers an outlet and he can't hold the ball up, Vic can hold the ball up (sometimes) but doesn't have a footballing brain e.g. movement/ positions. Yak/Saha's best days are behind them - each have the movement, finish and hold-up play but neither have the fitness (and maybe desire any more). Plainly we need a striker (and a winger too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 vic doesn't seem to know where he is playin half the time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We need a striker and yes we have a striker crisis - Beckford is the only one who offers an outlet and he can't hold the ball up, Vic can hold the ball up (sometimes) but doesn't have a footballing brain e.g. movement/ positions. Yak/Saha's best days are behind them - each have the movement, finish and hold-up play but neither have the fitness (and maybe desire any more). Plainly we need a striker (and a winger too!) Include Saha's touches. They're horrendous. They give me the creeps. They remind me of the time i first saw Fritzl on the TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We don't have a striker crisis at all. What we have is a manager who insists on playing one at a time, rightly or wrongly. Give Beckford a holding partner and he will score for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) We don't have a striker crisis at all. What we have is a manager who insists on playing one at a time, rightly or wrongly. Give Beckford a holding partner and he will score for fun. I hear what you're saying but do we have the other players for a 4-4-2? No. For a 4-4-2 to work you need 2 natural wingers who are going to get cross after cross in the box and 2 centre midfielders who are going to win/control the ball and get it out wide or through the middle. When saha came on last night we had 2 up top - saha had to drop deep to try to make something happen every attack - we need natural wingers who are going to bring the attack. At the moment the only way we could play 4-4-2 is if we play launch it to a target man and hope for knock-ons - if this is what we want we may as well play Felli up there. Edited August 25, 2011 by c1982 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I hear what you're saying but do we have the other players for a 4-4-2? No. For a 4-4-2 to work you need 2 natural wingers who are going to get cross after cross in the box and 2 centre midfielders who are going to win/control the ball and get it out wide or through the middle. When saha came on last night we had 2 up top - saha had to drop deep to try to make something happen every attack - we need natural wingers who are going to bring the attack. At the moment the only way we could play 4-4-2 is if we play launch it to a target man and hope for knock-ons - if this is what we want we may as well play Felli up there. Have to agree with you there. The strikers need to trust that the wingers/sided midfielders will have the ability to get a cross to them, if they do, then they'll be more likely to head for the box rather than coming out to get the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We don't have to play 4-4-2 to play 2 strikers. We just play one less midfielder in the same system and instead play a holding striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We don't have to play 4-4-2 to play 2 strikers. We just play one less midfielder in the same system and instead play a holding striker. So a 4-4-1-1 with a striker as a attacking midfielder? Exactly what our strikers do already as we haven't got the supply to attack high enough up the pitch. Once again I hear what you're trying to say but we simply don't have an Aguero, Rooney, Tevez, Van Persie or in old currency Beardsley, Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp, Sherringham etc. or forwards to do this, we basically have 'target men' and 'poachers' - we have not got the complete forward who can drop back and create something from nothing like all of the previous mentioned have the ability to do - that's why we play midfielders there - I would say osman is our best make shift 'forward' in our current squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 So a 4-4-1-1 with a striker as a attacking midfielder? Exactly what our strikers do already as we haven't got the supply to attack high enough up the pitch. Once again I hear what you're trying to say but we simply don't have an Aguero, Rooney, Tevez, Van Persie or in old currency Beardsley, Cantona, Zola, Bergkamp, Sherringham etc. or forwards to do this, we basically have 'target men' and 'poachers' - we have not got the complete forward who can drop back and create something from nothing like all of the previous mentioned have the ability to do - that's why we play midfielders there - I would say osman is our best make shift 'forward' in our current squad. He does it now with Cahill. Can't we just swap Cahill for Yak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 He does it now with Cahill. Can't we just swap Cahill for Yak? Maybe... probably not though - I doubt Yak has the positional sense to play there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 i discovered at five a side last week that i hold the ball up quite well. my shooting isnt bad, maybe score one in five, but then no one really wants to be a keeper so i dont think they try very hard. im not sure if its relevant, but my five a side team doesnt have a striker crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We dont need wingers who cross the ball to play 4-4-2. Look at the Arsenal unbeaten team - they played 4-4-2 mainly as a defensive structure, when in posession they became 4-2-3-1, with Begkamp dropping behind Henry looking to spring him in. A brilliant counter attacking team. The same can be said for uniteds recent formations, very effective and versatile. Is the 4-5-1 in effect a 4-2-3-1? No, because we only play one striker. When I have seen Saha and Beckford we look far more dangerous. Saha likes to drop deep, beckford advanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We dont need wingers who cross the ball to play 4-4-2. Look at the Arsenal unbeaten team - they played 4-4-2 mainly as a defensive structure, when in posession they became 4-2-3-1, with Begkamp dropping behind Henry looking to spring him in. A brilliant counter attacking team. The same can be said for uniteds recent formations, very effective and versatile. Is the 4-5-1 in effect a 4-2-3-1? No, because we only play one striker. When I have seen Saha and Beckford we look far more dangerous. Saha likes to drop deep, beckford advanced. The invicibles... Bergkamp = world class forward - what we lack Pires/Ljungberg = natural wingers - also what we lack Man.Utd... Rooney = world class forward Young/Nani/Valencia = natural wingers We need wingers to spring attacks and if we want to play 4-4-2 we need someone who can drop in a link the play - Arsenal had bergkamp, united have rooney. We need wingers with pace and a forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 The invicibles... Bergkamp = world class forward - what we lack Pires/Ljungberg = natural wingers - also what we lack Man.Utd... Rooney = world class forward Young/Nani/Valencia = natural wingers We need wingers to spring attacks and if we want to play 4-4-2 we need someone who can drop in a link the play - Arsenal had bergkamp, united have rooney. We need wingers with pace and a forward. Put Yobo on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 We need wingers with pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 The invicibles... Bergkamp = world class forward - what we lack Pires/Ljungberg = natural wingers - also what we lack Man.Utd... Rooney = world class forward Young/Nani/Valencia = natural wingers We need wingers to spring attacks and if we want to play 4-4-2 we need someone who can drop in a link the play - Arsenal had bergkamp, united have rooney. We need wingers with pace and a forward. But that's the point I am making 4-4-2 gave arsenal the defensive shape they needed, pires was not a chalk on boots winger and he was a right footed player who played on the left to cut inside. The two strikers up front can seperate the central defense far easier than just the one. I would love to see pace and the ability to take a man on at our club, but that does not mean we have to stick with a lone striker, especially given that no one is able to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) He does it now with Cahill. Can't we just swap Cahill for Yak? I wouldnt say no, either him or Saha playing slightly deeper with Beckford trying to get in behind. But that's the point I am making 4-4-2 gave arsenal the defensive shape they needed, pires was not a chalk on boots winger and he was a right footed player who played on the left to cut inside. The two strikers up front can seperate the central defense far easier than just the one. I would love to see pace and the ability to take a man on at our club, but that does not mean we have to stick with a lone striker, especially given that no one is able to do it. The thing I always remember about that Arsenal team was how many times they got to the byline and layed off a simple cut back for someone bursting into the box (just like RVP's goal last night). They were traditional wingers, but they were direct, and along with Henry pulling wide they beat there man, and put the ball in the box for the likes of Bergkamp, the other winger, henry, Vieira, Fabregas (a bit later) to score a tap in. I do think football has moved on a bit since then, now pretty much every decent team plays 4-5-1 of sorts, generally with some form of playmaker (Rooney, Messi, Ozil(?), Yaya Toure (technically) sitting in behind the main striker. We just need to get midfielders to commit to getting forward to support the stirker, which by the sounds of it, we did quite well yesterday. For what its worth, I dont necessarily think we have a striker crisis, I just dont think we have the right type of striker for the way we should be playing. Vic & Yakubu could be very useful in that type of role, but seem to lack the determination and understanding to make it work. Edited August 25, 2011 by Bailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Saha will recover his form this season, as he always does, that's not in question. The question is how long he can keep the form up....which I'm banking on being at most 3 weeks, or 5 games, before he gets injured again. Beckford has the potential to be a 12-15 goal a season striker quite easily, however he scored all those goals for Leeds in a 442 formation. Anichebe, well, I don't see any fuss about him whatsoever. i think he's cack and always has been, and will not mature and develop in the next year at all. Seriously pointless putting him ahead of Vellios, who noone has mentioned. vellios looks like a good holding forward, strong and tall, with quick burts of pace. Vellios and Beckford is the two I would have against the bottom 8 of the league and i reckon they'd score. against the teams in and around us though, well it's a headscratcher. Cahill plays behind the striker, so unless we play a diamond formation, with fellaini as defense mid, osman and arteta left and right and cahill behind beckford/saha i don't see how we can accomodate cahill and two strikers. Which leaves us needing a 20 goal a season CF, which we had 2 season ago in Yakubu, who is now apparently in the doghouse. Hopefully when Gueye comes back from injury he can add to the team as well. We talk about wingers being needed, but what Gueye and Coleman on each wing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Saha will recover his form this season, as he always does, that's not in question. The question is how long he can keep the form up....which I'm banking on being at most 3 weeks, or 5 games, before he gets injured again. Beckford has the potential to be a 12-15 goal a season striker quite easily, however he scored all those goals for Leeds in a 442 formation. Anichebe, well, I don't see any fuss about him whatsoever. i think he's cack and always has been, and will not mature and develop in the next year at all. Seriously pointless putting him ahead of Vellios, who noone has mentioned. vellios looks like a good holding forward, strong and tall, with quick burts of pace. Vellios and Beckford is the two I would have against the bottom 8 of the league and i reckon they'd score. against the teams in and around us though, well it's a headscratcher. Cahill plays behind the striker, so unless we play a diamond formation, with fellaini as defense mid, osman and arteta left and right and cahill behind beckford/saha i don't see how we can accomodate cahill and two strikers. Which leaves us needing a 20 goal a season CF, which we had 2 season ago in Yakubu, who is now apparently in the doghouse. Hopefully when Gueye comes back from injury he can add to the team as well. We talk about wingers being needed, but what Gueye and Coleman on each wing? Do we need wingers if 4-3-1-2 formation is played, or a diamond or even a hollow square, sometimes used by Arrigo Sachi with Milan 89/90, with DM's pref for negative tactics though maybe a 5-4-0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Maths lessons needed. If you know basic arithmetic please contact Jona at toffeetalk.com On a serious note, I think we would get over run if we played a diamond. Chelsea tried it for a while with much stronger players than ours and didn't do too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Maths lessons needed. If you know basic arithmetic please contact Jona at toffeetalk.com On a serious note, I think we would get over run if we played a diamond. Chelsea tried it for a while with much stronger players than ours and didn't do too well. Don't see a problem if you don't put too much distance between the tip and the defensive midfielder. Didn't the Scottish manager play a 4-5-0 against France some time ago?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Writer Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Do we need wingers if 4-3-1-2 formation is played, or a diamond or even a hollow square, sometimes used by Arrigo Sachi with Milan 89/90, with DM's pref for negative tactics though maybe a 5-4-0? Don't see a problem if you don't put too much distance between the tip and the defensive midfielder. Didn't the Scottish manager play a 4-5-0 against France some time ago?!!! I presume in those formations we would have two in goal ? WOuld help us to keep a clean sheet at least, and is a very defensively minded/negative formation, perhaps that's what DM's aiming for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Jona, basically they're saying the formation should be 4-6-0 matey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 9 players is just not enough! though it is one player off the wage bill and not getting a match bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Jona, basically they're saying the formation should be 4-6-0 matey Yeah that's the fella! sorry Ten! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 4-5-0 is correct, he's obviously accounted for Vic in that formation!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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