The Blue Union respond

[smeghead1]

 

with gates down already this season, they are kinda getting that anyway

 

If BK is as good to his word and we do have money to spend in January and the likes of Donovan maybe Pav from Spurs and another arrive then im 100% sure the gates will improve, altho they usually do as those who cant afford a full season ticket usually get the half one for Xmas i know a few who do that.

[SimonButtle]

If BK is as good to his word and we do have money to spend in January and the likes of Donovan maybe Pav from Spurs and another arrive then im 100% sure the gates will improve, altho they usually do as those who cant afford a full season ticket usually get the half one for Xmas i know a few who do that.

I hope so, i doubt it will be much, but BK will look like a prize tw*t if Moyes does'nt get any money now, so gates will no doubt increase when we sign someone, what the problem will be is if anyone else go's

Edited November 26, 2011 by theprisoner

[Noble Savage]

I really hope Moyes gets at least the Arteta money but will probably have to make do with the Beckford cash. I can't see anyone leaving unless Man City need a new left back or someone is ready to spend big on Rodwell. The B.U and the fence sitters will be watching .

[smeghead1]

 

I hope so, i doubt it will be much, but BK will look like a prize tw*t if Moyes does'nt get any money now, so gates will no doubt increase when we sign someone, what the problem will be is if anyone else go's

 

Good point that Prisoner mate if anyone other than say Bily is sold i can see BK having a rough ride for the rest if the season, our squad is small enough so if we get say 2 in and lose 2 what is the point really! Heres hoping for a few new faces.

 

 

[SimonButtle]

Good point that Prisoner mate if anyone other than say Bily is sold i can see BK having a rough ride for the rest if the season, our squad is small enough so if we get say 2 in and lose 2 what is the point really! Heres hoping for a few new faces.

yes indeed, but if you look at the Rodwell thread, i found a link that says Man U are prepared to pay £33m for him apparently? thats money we just cannot turn down if it comes our way imo.

[smeghead1]

 

yes indeed, but if you look at the Rodwell thread, i found a link that says Man U are prepared to pay £33m for him apparently? thats money we just cannot turn down if it comes our way imo.

 

If its true then Yeah wed be crackers to turn it down especially after they were offered him for around 17 million in the summer but bought Young instead. Itd be sad really as Rodwell is just showing the sort of class that everyone knew he was capable of. Listen im still hopefull we may bo under new ownership in the near future so maybe we wont be in the position we are at the minute id love to see Rodwell captain the team one day.

Edited November 26, 2011 by smeghead1

[SimonButtle]

The latest post from the Buffoon Union on Facebook:

 

We have recieved a number of comments and criticisims from various people. Highly critical of certain supporters been barred by this group. We spend far to much time removing innapropiate, foul and abusive language. It will not be tolerated by this group. Nor will pro or anti Moyes or Team status. Go on any number of forums, they do it better than us. If not try the Blue Union forum. We will not support or oppose the manager or the players. All posts doing so will be removed, if it continues we will bar you, end of. It any Blue Union supporters want to start a Moyes Out, a Kenwright out or even Blue Union out it will not be on these pages.

 

 

Do they even know what they are protesting against anymore?

Edited December 16, 2011 by theprisoner

[Avinalaff]

The latest post from the Buffon Union on Facebook:

 

We have recieved a number of comments and criticisims from various people. Highly critical of certain supporters been barred by this group. We spend far to much time removing innapropiate, foul and abusive language. It will not be tolerated by this group. Nor will pro or anti Moyes or Team status. Go on any number of forums, they do it better than us. If not try the Blue Union forum. We will not support or oppose the manager or the players. All posts doing so will be removed, if it continues we will bar you, end of. It any Blue Union supporters want to start a Moyes Out, a Kenwright out or even Blue Union out it will not be on these pages.

 

 

Do they even know what they are protesting against anymore?

 

They could do with proof reading their comments a little. It doesn't make a lot of sense, as the author is struggling to express himself somewhat.

 

Am I right in saying they don't want their forums used as a canvas for debating whether the board, the manager, or the players stay or not, and don't wish to be associated with similar type discussion?

[StevO]

I think so, they dont want to be a fan forum, they just want to stick to what they are pushing for.

[Noble Savage]

Yeah , I think the are trying to regain some focus. They still want to push for the board to appoint some professionals to sell the club and/or to get some answers regarding who,when and how much. The message has been diluted somewhat recently but they are sorting themselves out before Febuary.

 

I still don't fully support them but I'm quite impressed with the amount of press they got , and wasted.

[Hafnia]

Unfortunately the blue union attracts some prize idiots who will moan about anything from Chang beer, ticket prices etc etc. It gives them a thuggish appearance.

 

The focus is and should be making kenwright walk the plank. Horrible as it sounds, I have had enough confirmation that says his price is inflated by his reluctance to leave.

 

Kenwright is like holyfield, so punch drunk he's unable to see what has become of him, yet he still wants to get back in the ring. Unfortunately the decision to quit lies with him.

[MikeO]

...I have had enough confirmation that says his price is inflated by his reluctance to leave.

 

Comes down (as ever) to whether you believe Bill to be an honorable man or a liar.

 

"Hopefully the day will come soon when I will happily – even enthusiastically – hand over control...." Chairman's statement in the accounts.

 

That's not to say I dismiss the idea of too much being asked, but that (as others have pointed out before) could well be down to Woods and Earl.

[FanchesterCity]

If something isn't selling - in ANY walk of life.. it's either:

 

1) The price is too high

2) The owner is being too fussy about who to sell to.

 

You can put a thousands spins on the matter, but it still comes down to that. You see it in the housing market, the car market, the business market.

 

All the negative aspects of Everton (ground, location, debt etc) are simply aspects that affect the price. Just like a dent in a car, or lack of car parking space at a house.

[Avinalaff]

If something isn't selling - in ANY walk of life.. it's either:

 

1) The price is too high

2) The owner is being too fussy about who to sell to.

 

You can put a thousands spins on the matter, but it still comes down to that. You see it in the housing market, the car market, the business market.

 

All the negative aspects of Everton (ground, location, debt etc) are simply aspects that affect the price. Just like a dent in a car, or lack of car parking space at a house.

 

You can't flip a coin in such a nonchalant way when it comes to why nobody has bought the club.

There are many factors for any prospective investor to take into account, and to suggest it's either the price is too high, or the owner is fussy, is simply ridiculous.

 

Sometimes I wonder if folk try to give an impression that they know what they are talking about on forums, when they clearly don't.

[FanchesterCity]

You can't flip a coin in such a nonchalant way when it comes to why nobody has bought the club.

There are many factors for any prospective investor to take into account, and to suggest it's either the price is too high, or the owner is fussy, is simply ridiculous.

 

Sometimes I wonder if folk try to give an impression that they know what they are talking about on forums, when they clearly don't.

 

I think you'll find it's PRECISELY the truth.

 

Of course there are countless 'factors' when you purchase a business, but those factors (positive and negative) ultimately come down to a valuation of the business. If the value is attractive to a buyer, they'll buy. If not, they won't. Those factors (to which you refer, and had you read properly, I referred to also) are simply reflected in a price.

 

COST / BENEFIT pure and simple. Since (seemingly) Everton can't readily change the benefit element of the equation, the only variable they can change is the cost.

 

The proposition presented by any selling business is this:

 

"FOR THE PRICE, is the business I'm offering an attractive proposition or not?".

(All of the other variables are incorporated into that statement)

 

So, counter it sir.... I look forward to your presentation of evidence to the contrary.

Edited December 17, 2011 by BlueSky

[Dalziel Kane]

Keep thinking I've wandered on to the set of 'Dragons Den' by mistake

 

That would be an interesting scenario though, i.e. Kenwright and Moyes going up for investment and pleading their cases

[Avinalaff]

I think you'll find it's PRECISELY the truth.

 

Of course there are countless 'factors' when you purchase a business, but those factors (positive and negative) ultimately come down to a valuation of the business. If the value is attractive to a buyer, they'll buy. If not, they won't. Those factors (to which you refer, and had you read properly, I referred to also) are simply reflected in a price.

 

COST / BENEFIT pure and simple. Since (seemingly) Everton can't readily change the benefit element of the equation, the only variable they can change is the cost.

 

The proposition presented by any selling business is this:

 

"FOR THE PRICE, is the business I'm offering an attractive proposition or not?".

(All of the other variables are incorporated into that statement)

 

So, counter it sir.... I look forward to your presentation of evidence to the contrary.

 

I'll leave any presentations to the board thanks very much. They're the guys that know the business that they are trying to sell. Not us. We have not a single fact or figure in front of us. To even try to discuss it would be hypothetical and trivial.

[FanchesterCity]

FACT - the club is for sale

FACT - a number of buyers have looked

FACT - none of the buyers has chosen to buy

FACT - when a business proposition is attractive and fair value there is little to prevent a sale

FACT - when a business proposition is attractive and good value, a sale is highly likely

FACT - when a sale doesn't go through (and there exists a potential buyer), the cost / benefit ratio was not favourable to the buyer

FACT - when all potential buyers consider the cost/benefit ratio unfavourable - the price is too high (at that moment in time)

 

Simple market economics. Everton can do the following:

 

a) Increase the actual or perceived benefit.

Reduce the cost

c) Wait for external variables to influence the market in favour of Everton.

 

These ARE facts.

 

You're right to say we don't know the specific detail of the cost / benefit analysis (but that's not necessary to know), but we do know the outcome, and can therefore deduce the above.

 

There would be nothing wrong with BK saying "the market's not good right now, so we will wait until it suits Everton".... but what he's actually saying is "The market's not good right now, and we can't sell". He's wrong. Everton CAN sell, just not at a price Everton like. The market dictates the price unfortunately, not BK.

 

Prove me wrong sir.

Edited December 17, 2011 by BlueSky

[SimonButtle]

Since a few days ago when i made a post on the BU fb page telling them basically that they needed to bash their heads together and grow up a bit (i think you can imagine the respones i got from it, and the post was removed after about 1/2 hr) i have got talking to a very nice gentleman who has been going to the game for 40 years and is in his 60's now. He is the father of one of the 4 who went to visit Blue Bill in the infamous meeting in London, and he was telling me that what came out from it, is only the tip of the iceberg, and his son WON'T tell him the full content of the meeting as he say's "dad it will break your heart if you knew" what came out in the transcript is like 10% of what was talked about.

 

Now ive only been talking to this guy for a few days, but he's not some young scally on the protests and that, he's a 63 year old bloke who does not actually approve of them, and thinks there are better ways of doing it, even though his son is right in the middle of it all. im interested to see what more i can get out of him and if i can get contact with his son tbh.

[Louis]

At least two of the three who went to see Kenwright are on twitter; @simon_mag and @premierefc1878

[FanchesterCity]

Since a few days ago when i made a post on the BU fb page telling them basically that they needed to bash their heads together and grow up a bit (i think you can imagine the respones i got from it, and the post was removed after about 1/2 hr) i have got talking to a very nice gentleman who has been going to the game for 40 years and is in his 60's now. He is the father of one of the 4 who went to visit Blue Bill in the infamous meeting in London, and he was telling me that what came out from it, is only the tip of the iceberg, and his son WON'T tell him the full content of the meeting as he say's "dad it will break your heart if you knew" what came out in the transcript is like 10% of what was talked about.

 

Now ive only been talking to this guy for a few days, but he's not some young scally on the protests and that, he's a 63 year old bloke who does not actually approve of them, and thinks there are better ways of doing it, even though his son is right in the middle of it all. im interested to see what more i can get out of him and if i can get contact with his son tbh.

 

Some people seem to believe that the mority of clubs are run by credible businessmen who've clearly done well in life, and therefore are unlikely to make mistakes.... however, the real truth is, MOST clubs are a shambles behind the scenes.

 

Clubs historically have never really had to operate as major corporations, but since the advent of Sky, they've had a windfall that's put them in the 'mid to large' corporation size as a business (but NOT in acumen). Of course I can't speak for Everton, I'm not privvy to the inner workings, but I am privvy to two other clubs... one minor, one large, and both have quite horrific stories to tell. Just lots of nice staff with a love for the club totally out of their depth as a business.

 

Just as a small example, at Newcastle, there were contractors doing work their getting paid 3 times more than the 'going rate' for such work, AND picking and choosing times and dates to get 'overtime' rates that suited them etc. Mike Ashley's team cracked down on that and saved a small fortune. It's just typical of 'giving the contract to a mate' etc... and all sorts of deals and schemes going on.

 

Similar goings on at other clubs.

 

 

Everton have most of the key ingredients of a top club:

 

Good fan base

History

Half decent team

Prem League status

Good TV money

 

It just needs a proper team (business team) to get it back on track. 'Cos I can't see any other reason for it to be in the state it's in.You're NOT bloody Portsmouth punching above your weight here, and you're not spending willy nilly. It's doesn't take rocket science to deduce someone's making a mess of it somewhere....

[lunartic66]

In response to the part about the BU. I have been trying on their FB page to find out exactly what their plans are. Repeatedly I get sarcastic remarks, hardly very professional and full of grammatical errors. They say glibly that they know of 3 hard-nosed businessmen who could find a buyer, but when pressed for more details they hide behing "exclusivity". The rest is really just a few people trying to boost teir own egos who I feel started off with good intentions but then got taken over by that single issue group, KEIOC. Quite why so few get so much publicity is beyond me. The sad and annoying fact is that given the disproportionate amount of coverage they get, they fail to capitalise on it by having a firm, robust and SENSIBLE plan.

Constantly they have articles on various fansites, have a look at Toffeeweb this morning, getting some so called expert to analyse the accounts and then claim that the club is in dire straights and it's all the fault of the business model. The said article tells us nothing that we don't already know and then the comments flow from the sanctimonious Fitzpatrick et al.

[Hafnia]

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=16839

 

I think the sad thing is, 3 of them ran rings around our chairman. The article above is based on published facts, an interpretation and a forecast. More players will and have to be sold under current running. My guess is fellaini, rodwell and baines with replacements at a cost of no more than £15m for the lot, approx £45m net off the debt.

 

We got to get a buyer. No option other than that.

[Avinalaff]

http://www.twohundre...nt.net/?p=16839

 

I think the sad thing is, 3 of them ran rings around our chairman. The article above is based on published facts, an interpretation and a forecast. More players will and have to be sold under current running. My guess is fellaini, rodwell and baines with replacements at a cost of no more than £15m for the lot, approx £45m net off the debt.

 

We got to get a buyer. No option other than that.

 

I don't think they ran rings around anybody Haf.

 

What they did was underhanded, and deserves no support.

If we do get taken over, I just hope they don't think it was down to them. It certainly isn't.

[Hafnia]

 

 

I don't think they ran rings around anybody Haf.

 

What they did was underhanded, and deserves no support.

If we do get taken over, I just hope they don't think it was down to them. It certainly isn't.

 

I think we all need to understand the amount of underhand tactics that go on from both sides.

 

In one corner we have everton, a veteran of the ring, special combinations include throwing their opponents out of the stadium for bringing banners in, banning journalists from their training camps for not going along with what they are told, banning agms because they can't answer tough questions.

 

In the other corner it's the blue union, never fail to spot an opportunity to throw a kidney punch, prep for their fights by using tape recordings of their unprepared opponent who clearly underestimated them.

 

Your referee for tonight's bout is Derek Hatton.

 

If the blue union is a means to an end then great, just like the fortress fund let them disappear into the night once mission is accomplished.

 

Personally I don't like underhand tactics and tgey do leave a sour taste but i like everton far more.

[SimonButtle]

I don't think they ran rings around anybody Haf.

 

What they did was underhanded, and deserves no support.

If we do get taken over, I just hope they don't think it was down to them. It certainly isn't.

I think we all agree that the meeting was a bit of a joke, but both sides were at fault, but Av you must agree that Kenwright and the Board have made some unforgivable errors during their time at the club, i understand why you want to back him and feel he should be given another chance too, but the fact of the matter is recorded or not, Bill came across very bad in that interview and fans as you know are very fickle, and often just hear and read things and go with it, without really doing any research into the facts like most of us on here do, thats what makes TT a better site than the rest.

 

Like Haf says, the club itself is bigger than the chairman or the manager, and its Everton we all like and support, the BU are just a small itch, who will hopefully go away soon.

Edited December 20, 2011 by theprisoner

[Avinalaff]

I don't have long this afternoon, so will keep it brief.

 

We will be worse off in the future, if we are to expect change by protesting. The time must eventually come, when if a fan can't accept a situation, then stop supporting football must be the solution. The solution can not, and should not, be the expectancy that a chairman should continue to throw money away. The game is out of control. If we keep feeding it money, there will eventually be no game. The answer must surely be for chairmen to start digging their heels in, and for the cost of the game come back down to earth. If this doesn't happen, clubs will start falling, and administration will be a regular occurrence. We must all take a step backwards in order to move forward, and that step backwards for the fans means that they will have to accept situations, rather than protest. The game is a big fat eating machine, and it needs to lose a little weight. Don't find people to spend more. Find people to spend less. If footballers won't play for less than 200k per week, leave them to rot in their own greed.

[Hafnia]

I don't have long this afternoon, so will keep it brief.

 

We will be worse off in the future, if we are to expect change by protesting. The time must eventually come, when if a fan can't accept a situation, then stop supporting football must be the solution. The solution can not, and should not, be the expectancy that a chairman should continue to throw money away. The game is out of control. If we keep feeding it money, there will eventually be no game. The answer must surely be for chairmen to start digging their heels in, and for the cost of the game come back down to earth. If this doesn't happen, clubs will start falling, and administration will be a regular occurrence. We must all take a step backwards in order to move forward, and that step backwards for the fans means that they will have to accept situations, rather than protest. The game is a big fat eating machine, and it needs to lose a little weight. Don't find people to spend more. Find people to spend less. If footballers won't play for less than 200k per week, leave them to rot in their own greed.

 

I agree with alot of this - there is a great big greedy monster being fed and it does need to go on a diet. But whilst it's feeding time at the zoo I want everton with its nose in the trough.

 

Game has gone daft, that horrible mercenary tevez on £200k a week and celebrating city going out the champions league?! Would not have happened 20 years ago.

 

Wage caps? Low salary - high performance bonus payments? Agents being banned in favour of a professional union who represent players and the monies go towards protecting the game (lower league clubs)?

 

Just a few ideas

[Avinalaff]

I agree with alot of this - there is a great big greedy monster being fed and it does need to go on a diet. But whilst it's feeding time at the zoo I want everton with its nose in the trough.

 

Game has gone daft, that horrible mercenary tevez on £200k a week and celebrating city going out the champions league?! Would not have happened 20 years ago.

 

Wage caps? Low salary - high performance bonus payments? Agents being banned in favour of a professional union who represent players and the monies go towards protecting the game (lower league clubs)?

 

Just a few ideas

 

How close to being an 'As long as I'm alright Jack' scenario is that though Haf?

 

If Everton get a billionaire backer, the game is still in danger. Somebody has to extinguish the fire - not toast their marshmallows while it burns.

[Hafnia]

 

 

How close to being an 'As long as I'm alright Jack' scenario is that though Haf?

 

If Everton get a billionaire backer, the game is still in danger. Somebody has to extinguish the fire - not toast their marshmallows while it burns.

 

Something needs to give but not at the cost of our club. We've been too noble and humble for too long, dog eat dog till that shower running the game think of something I'm afraid.