Everton fan on Talksport

[FanchesterCity]

Heartbreaking to listen to the Everton fan on Talksport.

 

Some things should always be remembered - and the 'truth' known - no matter how ugly aspects of it might be.

 

Hard to get a tear in your eye hearing his account of an Everton fan driving to Sheffield to find his brother (Liverpool fan).

[Matt]

err.... is there a link etc to this? Seems like a very random post to me, am I missing something?

[Louis]

Im presuming there was a caller on who lost his brother at Hillsborough ?

[FanchesterCity]

Yes

 

I didn't want to mention the word to avoid any hassle you can sometimes get - I assumed anybody listening would know the subject matter.

 

He came across brilliant and probably told the story for most folks (obviously not the details, but the general feeling)

[rubecula]

This is a subject that united us all red and blue. There have been a few topics like this and all very emotive.

 

I remember the Z Cars theme at Anfield for young Rhys too.

 

Divided by team loyalties but united as families, and we know what our priorities are.

 

Bless them all.

[FanchesterCity]

Hear hear

 

I hope all of Merseyside, and indeed the whole country (because ALL football fans should know)... get to learn the true events of that day.

 

I believe it was just a truly tragic accident brought about by a number of human mistakes across multiple many sectors, but for the sake of the people it affected, maybe, just maybe to get SOME sort of closure and apology. It's not a lot to ask.

 

For those of old enough to remember it, it only serves as a reminder to why folks should have some respect for other fans, show a bit of common sense, come back from every game we attend safe and sound. 96 didn't that day, and I personally wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

 

Anyway - the guy was a real credit to Liverpool. Calm, collected and got across his gut wrenching memories brilliantly.

 

Richard Keys is a buffoon though

[rubecula]

 

 

Richard Keys is a buffoon though

 

Well, I really can't argue with that.

[Lowensda]

I believe it was just a truly tragic accident brought about by a number of human mistakes across multiple many sectors, but for the sake of the people it affected, maybe, just maybe to get SOME sort of closure and apology. It's not a lot to ask.

I don't want to appear insensitive, but who from?

[FanchesterCity]

I don't want to appear insensitive, but who from?

 

An apology from those in command at the ground, if only to say "it was a messy situation, and the choices we made made it worse"

From the British Government who, across a number of years and two political parties, have done little to make public some of the documents pertaining to that day, or more to the point, the meetings that took place in the aftermath.

 

There are those who'll always think certain people acted with crass insensitivity, and some who blatantly lied about matters, but for the large part, I think most fans went to enjoy a match, and most 'officials' went to work that day, seemingly like any other day. Alas, it wasn't to be.

 

And, whilst I'm at it... the FA aren't blameless either. Cramming more and more into grounds with quite shocking facilities truth be told, and penning people in a manner that would be illegal for animals.

 

Call it a 'culmination' of years of neglect, combined with wrong choices, but worst of all, worse than anything else, the desire to brush things under the carpet.

 

Just sayin' like!

 

 

I might get slated for the above - it's simply how I see it. I wasn't there, but I did witness it as it happened and will never forget it. I like to think of it as an 'independent' view. Some may suggest otherwise!

[johny]

I don't want to appear insensitive, but who from?

the police for:

1. insisting all 24,000 liverpool fans had to enter the ground through the end with the smallest number of turnstyles

2. refusing to put the kick off time back despite thousands being delayed in roadworks and still being outside the ground at 3pm

3. opening the exit gate and allowing thousands to walk straight into the tunnel into the already overcrowded central pens despite being told 7 times by the head steward not to.

4. standing feet away from dead bodies pushed up against the fence, hearing people, children screaming for help, and doing nothing.

5. pushing people back in to the crush from the top of the fences.

6. lining up along the halfway line to protect the forrest fans from the dead scousers whilst untrained fans provided CPR and manned stretchers.

7. refusing the dozens of ambulences that turned up access to the stadium "for their own safety". Most people could've been saved if given oxygen before brain death.

8. Telling the FA, whilst people were still lying there dying that fans forced the gate open.

9. Treating the families of the dead like shit in the immediate aftermath

10. Leaking lies to the press about fans pissing on dead bodies, theiving from dead bodies, attacking paramedics, and SEXUALLY ABUSING dead bodies.

11. Changing Police statements to remove anything that apportioned blame to the police or the decision making of the officers in charge.

12. Destroying the CCTV tapes from the grounds control tower.

13. Pensioning off the Officer in charge on the day of the game, who ordered the gate opened, and who in the words of Lord Taylor "froze" when the disaster was unfolding.

 

would be a start.

 

don't be fooled by their talk of "hundreds of drunk ticketless fans rioting", even at 3.06 video evidence has proven that the total number of people across all pens in the leppings lane was at or just under full capacity. also, there is CCTV of the moment the gate is opened from inside the ground, people can be seen walking calmly through, a few jogging, and straight down the unguarded tunnel. there were no rioting mobs, and the number of bunkers was minimal, no more than any normal match. it was gross negligence, not an accident.

[johny]

fans tending to the injured whilst dozens of police, all trained in first aid, stand with their backs to them.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/306862_10150428821684622_517444621_10885643_7909938_n.jpg

 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00089/hills9_89195s.jpg football fans were the shit on their shoes that day.

[Lowensda]

the police for:

1. insisting all 24,000 liverpool fans had to enter the ground through the end with the smallest number of turnstyles

2. refusing to put the kick off time back despite thousands being delayed in roadworks and still being outside the ground at 3pm

3. opening the exit gate and allowing thousands to walk straight into the tunnel into the already overcrowded central pens despite being told 7 times by the head steward not to.

4. standing feet away from dead bodies pushed up against the fence, hearing people, children screaming for help, and doing nothing.

5. pushing people back in to the crush from the top of the fences.

6. lining up along the halfway line to protect the forrest fans from the dead scousers whilst untrained fans provided CPR and manned stretchers.

7. refusing the dozens of ambulences that turned up access to the stadium "for their own safety". Most people could've been saved if given oxygen before brain death.

8. Telling the FA, whilst people were still lying there dying that fans forced the gate open.

9. Treating the families of the dead like shit in the immediate aftermath

10. Leaking lies to the press about fans pissing on dead bodies, theiving from dead bodies, attacking paramedics, and SEXUALLY ABUSING dead bodies.

11. Changing Police statements to remove anything that apportioned blame to the police or the decision making of the officers in charge.

12. Destroying the CCTV tapes from the grounds control tower.

13. Pensioning off the Officer in charge on the day of the game, who ordered the gate opened, and who in the words of Lord Taylor "froze" when the disaster was unfolding.

 

would be a start.

 

don't be fooled by their talk of "hundreds of drunk ticketless fans rioting", even at 3.06 video evidence has proven that the total number of people across all pens in the leppings lane was at or just under full capacity. also, there is CCTV of the moment the gate is opened from inside the ground, people can be seen walking calmly through, a few jogging, and straight down the unguarded tunnel. there were no rioting mobs, and the number of bunkers was minimal, no more than any normal match. it was gross negligence, not an accident.

 

1-3 I can't agree that an apology is needed. However, the rest i can understand why. Some of the behaviour of media and officials was disgusting.

 

The 'X' number of fans who didn't own a ticket or didn't attempt to purchase a ticket need to take some responsibility though. That may come across as if i'm a twat, i'm not, nor am i trying to be! I feel that this topic in particular focuses too much on the responsibilty of others, when the 'X' number of people is the difference between a full capacity stadium and one that is dangerously overflowing.

 

In respect to the gate issue, were the gates not opened (initially) for the safety of the mass congragation of fans outside the gates? The officials felt that people would get hurt or trampled if they didn't release the pressure. Unfortunately the decision to act in the safety of others, caused a horrific and tragic loss of lives.

 

Also, in point 2 you mention about kick off times. Not being funny, but i've been late for games and they didn't delay kick-off when i was late. The biggest example was in the Europa cup some years ago, Fiorentina i think it was, EVerton made a major fuck-up regarding tickets, where you had to collect them before the game, the ques were the length of Bullens Road 6 times over and most people (000's) didn't get in until 30 minutes after kick-off....Evertons fuck-up, so you'd have felt that they would have delayed the game a little right? Nope.

 

Point 1, a ground is a ground. Designated seating for away fans, whether thats the 'gods' at St James' Park or Windy Corner at SToke, if they were the turnstyles used. Then so be it.

 

It makes me angry this topic. So many young, innocent people who bought tickets to watch their hero's play and be entertained by some true greats of Liverpool, lost their lives. And although you might think (again) that i'm being a twat, I genuinely genuinely couldn't feel worse about what happened and I hope that the justice does come to the perpetrators but i don't think the blame solely lies with officials and the police. Some responsibility has to be taken elsewhere i'm afraid.

[johny]

 

1-3 I can't agree that an apology is needed. However, the rest i can understand why. Some of the behaviour of media and officials was disgusting.

 

The 'X' number of fans who didn't own a ticket or didn't attempt to purchase a ticket need to take some responsibility though. That may come across as if i'm a twat, i'm not, nor am i trying to be! I feel that this topic in particular focuses too much on the responsibilty of others, when the 'X' number of people is the difference between a full capacity stadium and one that is dangerously overflowing.

 

I might not have explained this as well as I could, there were NOT any more people in the Leppings Lane than the official capacity, this has been independently verifyed. The problem arose because 3/4 of the people in the stand were allowed down the tunnel that serviced the central 2 pens. Blocking the tunnel once those pens were full was standard procedure for that ground, which wasn't followed that day. When they opened the gate and let 3,000 people in those pens were already full, the police control tower overlooked that end of the ground and yet nothing was done to stop everyone walking straight down that tunnel, which is what caused the crush. The side pens were half empty, and at no point was that terrace, taken as a whole, over populated.

 

In respect to the gate issue, were the gates not opened (initially) for the safety of the mass congragation of fans outside the gates? The officials felt that people would get hurt or trampled if they didn't release the pressure. Unfortunately the decision to act in the safety of others, caused a horrific and tragic loss of lives.

 

Also, in point 2 you mention about kick off times. Not being funny, but i've been late for games and they didn't delay kick-off when i was late. The biggest example was in the Europa cup some years ago, Fiorentina i think it was, EVerton made a major fuck-up regarding tickets, where you had to collect them before the game, the ques were the length of Bullens Road 6 times over and most people (000's) didn't get in until 30 minutes after kick-off....Evertons fuck-up, so you'd have felt that they would have delayed the game a little right? Nope.

 

And I've been to probably half a dozen games down the years that have been delayed. It's a standard practise in football, as it was back in 1989. All I can say about your example is that they've obviously not learned their lesson.

 

Point 1, a ground is a ground. Designated seating for away fans, whether thats the 'gods' at St James' Park or Windy Corner at SToke, if they were the turnstyles used. Then so be it.

 

There were other turnstyles available that were denyed to the Liverpool fans for fear of a loss of segregation. The number of turnstyles allocated, working at a constant full capacity, would have needed over an hour to admit the number of ticket holders allowed to use them.

 

It makes me angry this topic. So many young, innocent people who bought tickets to watch their hero's play and be entertained by some true greats of Liverpool, lost their lives. And although you might think (again) that i'm being a twat, I genuinely genuinely couldn't feel worse about what happened and I hope that the justice does come to the perpetrators but i don't think the blame solely lies with officials and the police. Some responsibility has to be taken elsewhere i'm afraid.

 

 

I don't think you're a twat, there is so much misinformation out there. Remember at 3.15, whilst people were still dying, people who only needed oxygen, oxygen that was in abundance in the ambulances outside the ground being intentionally kept from the injured by the police, the chairman of the FA was giving a press conference telling the world that drunken fans had rioted and broke the gate down. As someone else said the lies were halfway around the world before the truth even got it's laces tied.

 

www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

[MikeO]

Also, in point 2 you mention about kick off times. Not being funny, but i've been late for games and they didn't delay kick-off when i was late. The biggest example was in the Europa cup some years ago, Fiorentina i think it was, EVerton made a major fuck-up regarding tickets, where you had to collect them before the game, the ques were the length of Bullens Road 6 times over and most people (000's) didn't get in until 30 minutes after kick-off....Evertons fuck-up, so you'd have felt that they would have delayed the game a little right? Nope.

Small point but it was Metalist Kharkiv and they did delay kick-off by thirty minutes J from 8.00 to 8.30 (I was in Bullens Road). I got into my seat at 8.50.

 

Still got the email I sent to Ian Ross about it.

[StevO]

ive been to a few games where kick off has been delayed, a few due to motorway congestion and people not being able to get to the ground. delay the game a little, stop people rushing. most of them only by 10-15 mins though.