Norwich

[FanchesterCity]

OK, I'll say it (or rather ask it)- you won't like it, but here goes.....

 

Where would Man City be without the Arabs money?

 

We'd be in a total mess financially (highly probably because we were before!), and quite possibly in the Championship (hard to know for sure).

 

But that's not my point... my point is, it's easy to say "we should beat so and so", but the tables don't lie in the end.

In this league, any team can beat any team, which is partly what makes it so good.

At the moment, the season's not even half way through, so it can be a bit misleading, but it's starting to reflect the truth.... Let's say 4 places in either direction as leeway (for any team).

 

Ask most fans about their team and most will say 'we were robbed' or 'unlucky' (regardless of which team they support), but putting the bias to one side, maybe, just maybe the current Everton team aren't as good as many (including myself) think.

 

If you want to talk City, the same could be said of them.... the proof is in the pudding, out of Europe, and beatable... not as 'great' as some believe, or Arsenal - not as bad as some believe!

 

If you're completely impartial, the only real measurement you can use is the table, and in my opinion, Everton's position must be indicative of where they are at, but NOT indicative of where they traditionally OUGHT to be!

Edited December 17, 2011 by BlueSky

[Dalziel Kane]

I won't begrudge City for their upturn in fortunes, they have had to live for as long as anyone can remember in the shadow of their more illustrious and bigger neighbors and got to win their first trophy since 1976 last season, for that kind of long wait the supporters are entitled to some enjoyment, I don't know how long it will last but enjoy the good times while they last, I think you'll do a little Forest kind of thing from 1978-80, although that was down to the fine manager they had not necessarily foreign investments, whereas it'll be a few title challenges, maybe one or two euro successes and some domestic recognition for a couple of years and after that it may all fall away somewhat

[adziom]

OK, I'll say it (or rather ask it) - most of you won't like it, but here goes...

 

 

ARE you really as good as you think you are, or is the table starting to tell the truth?

 

I accept bad decisions, bad luck, injuries, bad tactics etc etc, but there comes a point when you have to look deeper.

 

I am NOT saying you're poor, nor am I going to say you're great... I'm just asking the question as an outsider.

 

Our best 11 is probably deserving of a higher place in the table, but this league is all about the squad, and I think our position reflects our lack of depth. The difference between our team with Drenthe, and our team without Drenthe today was testament to that.

 

I'm not happy with the result, but I think there are actually a few positives to take out of this game:

- Drenthe definitely still features in our plans, and hasn't fallen out with Moyes.

- Drenthe is an awesome player, and having somebody like him that runs at the opposition and takes their players out of the game makes a ridiculous difference to our fortunes. Why he was ever played at left back I'll never know.

- Barring the goal, Jagielka and Heitinga looked quite solid in defence again.

- Stracqualursi played very well, and Moyes is giving him slightly more game time each week. Watching his performance today is enough to convince me that, once deemed fit enough by Moyes, or whatever is keeping him on the bench, he could hold down a role in our team.

- Saha looked threatening, yes it was frustrating when he took on the shot instead of passing to a team-mate, but he was unlucky not to score today, in my opinion. I might get lynched for saying it, but I think he still has a big role to play for us too.

- Magaye Gueye started well, he showed more than Bily, although he didn't stay in the game all the way through, another player who showed flashes of being able to play a part in the starting line up in future.

- McAleny looks very lively and brings something unique to our front line. Encouraging also for the rest of the season.

 

I think we have a potentially decent line up if everyone stays fit:

Howard

Hibbo Jag Heit Baines

Donovan/Osman Rodwell Felli Drenthe

Strac Saha

 

With a decent looking bench: Mucha, Distin, Neville, Cahill, Ossie, Vellios, McAleny

 

But we need more depth.

[FanchesterCity]

I think at the moment, the table is still a bit misleading... it flatters a few teams (City being one) and it gives a bad impression of others (Everton for example) BUT it's a fairly decent 'ballpark' indication at the moment. I think the +/- 4 places is about right.

 

To me, Everton are still one of the teams nobody wants to play. Capable of beating anyone, and anybody who comes away from a game with Everton with a point (or more) will feel pretty happy.

Although I say that, I do think a great deal of that 'fear' is based on past performance and a reputation for hard work / dogged performances.

 

I'm not sure about Drenthe. Part of me keeps feeling he only looks decent because he's in a side that's not really looking very threatening up front, and so anybody prepared to go forward with enthusiasm, and a bit of ability looks good!). I do agree though, that that's a real positive thing for Everton - more of it required please!

 

Norwich's goal today was hard to blame on anybody really. Just one of those 'jammy' goals that squeezed through (although you could argue he shouldn't have been able to turn and get a shot in).

 

 

Norwich are not a bad team - but truth be told there not 'bad' teams in this league. Only Bolton are looking shocking and they can play well when they have confidence.

 

I'm more worried about next season for Everton... that the ownership won't be resolved, players will get frustrated (and poached) and you'll slip back even further (into genuine 'worry zone'). That's why I think something has to happen ASAP in the boardroom, or some money found for Mr Moyes. That top 6-8 is looking harder and harder for Everton, and I'm not at all confident you're up to it this year, and look (from the outside) to be going the same way as Villa - another great club having to settle for mid table for a few years.

 

Perhaps I'm being a pessimist. After all, it's the DNA of a City fan!.... but still, for me, this current Everton team are not really of the standard Everton traditionally commands.

 

I'm convinced with (say) 20 - 30 million, Moyes could secure a fairly decent team for the next 3-4 years (and make damn sure Everton stay in the Prem). It's a crying shame he's not going to get anywhere near that, and in all likelihood will be asked to let even more players go (Rodwell, Baines?) in the summer. I know 20-30 million sounds a lot, but it's not when compared with the money other clubs are spending.

 

I think Everton and Moyes luck is running out.

 

p.s. by 'luck' I don't mean you've been lucky so far per se, I just mean that you can't keep going forever without spending and replacing the talent you keep losing. Sooner or later it will catch up with you, it just has to.

Let's just hope you can get new owners with a good attitude (and not a Venky's !)... Then Everton can get back in the mix at the top where they belong.

[Bailey]

OK, I'll say it (or rather ask it) - most of you won't like it, but here goes...

 

 

ARE you really as good as you think you are, or is the table starting to tell the truth?

 

I accept bad decisions, bad luck, injuries, bad tactics etc etc, but there comes a point when you have to look deeper.

 

I am NOT saying you're poor, nor am I going to say you're great... I'm just asking the question as an outsider.

 

We certainly have the potential to be in a much better position than we are. We have served up some real dross so far this season and that is what the league table reflects.

 

Teams might have spent more money than us but a lot of them are as or more beatable than they were last season. Only Man City and Spurs are showing any real consistent form. Chelsea, Arsenal and even Utd have all been struggling and bar the latter I dont see it changing too much. Look at the other teams around the top and they are very beatable and I dont think many teams have improved at all this year. Sunderland under O'Neill might be a little different now, especially after the transfer window but thats it as far as I am concerned.

[Avinalaff]

I think at the moment, the table is still a bit misleading... it flatters a few teams (City being one) and it gives a bad impression of others (Everton for example) BUT it's a fairly decent 'ballpark' indication at the moment. I think the +/- 4 places is about right.

 

To me, Everton are still one of the teams nobody wants to play. Capable of beating anyone, and anybody who comes away from a game with Everton with a point (or more) will feel pretty happy.

Although I say that, I do think a great deal of that 'fear' is based on past performance and a reputation for hard work / dogged performances.

 

I'm not sure about Drenthe. Part of me keeps feeling he only looks decent because he's in a side that's not really looking very threatening up front, and so anybody prepared to go forward with enthusiasm, and a bit of ability looks good!). I do agree though, that that's a real positive thing for Everton - more of it required please!

 

Norwich's goal today was hard to blame on anybody really. Just one of those 'jammy' goals that squeezed through (although you could argue he shouldn't have been able to turn and get a shot in).

 

 

Norwich are not a bad team - but truth be told there not 'bad' teams in this league. Only Bolton are looking shocking and they can play well when they have confidence.

 

I'm more worried about next season for Everton... that the ownership won't be resolved, players will get frustrated (and poached) and you'll slip back even further (into genuine 'worry zone'). That's why I think something has to happen ASAP in the boardroom, or some money found for Mr Moyes. That top 6-8 is looking harder and harder for Everton, and I'm not at all confident you're up to it this year, and look (from the outside) to be going the same way as Villa - another great club having to settle for mid table for a few years.

 

Perhaps I'm being a pessimist. After all, it's the DNA of a City fan!.... but still, for me, this current Everton team are not really of the standard Everton traditionally commands.

 

I'm convinced with (say) 20 - 30 million, Moyes could secure a fairly decent team for the next 3-4 years (and make damn sure Everton stay in the Prem). It's a crying shame he's not going to get anywhere near that, and in all likelihood will be asked to let even more players go (Rodwell, Baines?) in the summer. I know 20-30 million sounds a lot, but it's not when compared with the money other clubs are spending.

 

I think Everton and Moyes luck is running out.

 

p.s. by 'luck' I don't mean you've been lucky so far per se, I just mean that you can't keep going forever without spending and replacing the talent you keep losing. Sooner or later it will catch up with you, it just has to.

Let's just hope you can get new owners with a good attitude (and not a Venky's !)... Then Everton can get back in the mix at the top where they belong.

 

You tend to write many things on this board, and then feel the need to explain yourself, so as not to offend.

 

Let me tell you that it's not a very good tactic, as the offence still get's taken.

 

If you think folk will be offended, then don't write it. Instead, find a better way to express yourself, and if you can't find a way to do it without sounding a tw@t, then it's probably a good idea to not say it. Personally, I think you get a bit of a buzz from pointing out our faults, but walking on thin ice too often will result in you getting wet. Nobody likes a smart arse mate.

[Sibdane]

I think at the moment, the table is still a bit misleading... it flatters a few teams (City being one) and it gives a bad impression of others (Everton for example) BUT it's a fairly decent 'ballpark' indication at the moment. I think the +/- 4 places is about right.

 

To me, Everton are still one of the teams nobody wants to play. Capable of beating anyone, and anybody who comes away from a game with Everton with a point (or more) will feel pretty happy.

Although I say that, I do think a great deal of that 'fear' is based on past performance and a reputation for hard work / dogged performances.

 

I'm not sure about Drenthe. Part of me keeps feeling he only looks decent because he's in a side that's not really looking very threatening up front, and so anybody prepared to go forward with enthusiasm, and a bit of ability looks good!). I do agree though, that that's a real positive thing for Everton - more of it required please!

 

Norwich's goal today was hard to blame on anybody really. Just one of those 'jammy' goals that squeezed through (although you could argue he shouldn't have been able to turn and get a shot in).

 

 

Norwich are not a bad team - but truth be told there not 'bad' teams in this league. Only Bolton are looking shocking and they can play well when they have confidence.

 

I'm more worried about next season for Everton... that the ownership won't be resolved, players will get frustrated (and poached) and you'll slip back even further (into genuine 'worry zone'). That's why I think something has to happen ASAP in the boardroom, or some money found for Mr Moyes. That top 6-8 is looking harder and harder for Everton, and I'm not at all confident you're up to it this year, and look (from the outside) to be going the same way as Villa - another great club having to settle for mid table for a few years.(1)

 

Perhaps I'm being a pessimist. After all, it's the DNA of a City fan!.... but still, for me, this current Everton team are not really of the standard Everton traditionally commands.

 

I'm convinced with (say) 20 - 30 million(2), Moyes could secure a fairly decent team for the next 3-4 years (and make damn sure Everton stay in the Prem). It's a crying shame he's not going to get anywhere near that, and in all likelihood will be asked to let even more players go (Rodwell, Baines?) in the summer. I know 20-30 million sounds a lot, but it's not when compared with the money other clubs are spending.

 

I think Everton and Moyes luck is running out.

 

p.s. by 'luck' I don't mean you've been lucky so far per se, I just mean that you can't keep going forever without spending and replacing the talent you keep losing. Sooner or later it will catch up with you, it just has to.

Let's just hope you can get new owners with a good attitude (and not a Venky's !)... Then Everton can get back in the mix at the top where they belong.

 

1. This is what worries me as well.

2. The lack of this is what causes my worry.

 

I believe Everton should be performing better than they currently are. When I look at the last few seasons, they have been plagued by slow starts that blossom into great, almost storytelling endings. I worry what if our form doesn't pick up and we finish in say, the spot we are in now. Yes, we are not relegated but we lose even more funds to buy players (much less keep players).

 

I believe the players we have are able to put us in a good 7-10 position, but the lack of depth is really a killer. Obviously, I'm beating a dead horse, but we really need a buy-out if we are looking to turn the club around. That, or just a set of amazing youth players that are ready to live up to their potential in the very near future. All in all, I think we will finish strong. Davey has that end-of-season magic.

[FanchesterCity]

It wouldn't be so bad if Moyes could reinvest the money from outgoing players back into the squad - but I suspect (don't know) that the banks probably prevent it.