Steve_E Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Pete isn't going to like this, but Gerrard and Welbeck (and Cole) are your most talented players by far. Really enjoyable second half btw. Edited June 15, 2012 by Steve_E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Go and win it now. Thanks for that. Not very likely though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Pete isn't going to like this, but Gerrard and Welbeck (and Cole) are your most talented players by far. Really enjoyable second half btw. Thought Gerrard was average, as was Cole. Wellbeck was decent though.....been impressed with him both games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Pete isn't going to like this, but Gerrard and Welbeck (and Cole) are your most talented players by far. Really enjoyable second half btw. Cole is by a mile (best left back in the world), but nothing to shout home about in that game. Gerrard put one good ball in and needed Parker to carry him in midfield, other than the cross he done more bad than good. Welbeck was no where to be seen for most of the game, England barely created anything going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thought Gerrard was average, as was Cole. Wellbeck was decent though.....been impressed with him both games. Cole was average today, but that was more in general. Gerrard was controlling the game in the first 30 minutes distributing the ball and he kept running all game. In the 92th minute or so he still sprinted across the pitch (though he should have left the bal for Chamberlain there), great mentality. Welbeck has got everything you could want in a striker. (He was absolutely brilliant against Everton in the 4-4 as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Cole was average today, but that was more in general. Gerrard was controlling the game in the first 30 minutes distributing the ball and he kept running all game. In the 92th minute or so he still sprinted across the pitch (though he should have left the bal for Chamberlain there), great mentality. Welbeck has got everything you could want in a striker. (He was absolutely brilliant against Everton in the 4-4 as well) Because he left Parker to do all the hard work, if he done his shift and pulled his weight in the middle he wouldn't of had the energy to get forward in the 92nd minute. Wouldnt be surprised if Parker had a go at him for not helping enough. Edited June 15, 2012 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thought England played superb up until Sweden's first goal and then played superb just after thier second. I worry about us doing the same against Spain/Italy depending on which one we come up against but hopefully this has given the boys something to think about come these tough matches. Sweden were wank IMO and were lucky for their two goals (both from poor defending that were scuffled in). Milner was wank, Young was so-so and the rest of the team were decent. Credit to Carroll for his super header (and Gerrard for the cross), credit to Walcott for springing off the bench, booting the team into life and scoring a cracker and credit to Danny Welbeck for that Messi-esque finish. 1 point needed against Ukraine for the Quarters which I believe we will do. Three Lions; I'll love them forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Zoo, sweden were not wank, that was a bit harsh. They actually gave it a good go in the second half and was the better team for long periods. I feel empty now tho and the game against the Ukraine is the game that ruined swedens chances. Im happy that they had a good game against england and didnt roll over and die after england going one up. A good game against france now, leaving the euros with the flag on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Mellberg (linked with Everton) had a massive game. That tackle on Welbeck was the highlight of the night for me. Topped the night with 2 goals. Still dont want him at everton. Too old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Gerrard was terrible last night. It was typical Gerrard fare in central midfield: really terrible positional play, Hollywood passing and generally breaking down any tempo England were trying to (occasionally) engender. In typical Gerrard fashion though he spectacularly set up a goal and that's all that people will remember. They were talking about Gerrard in a football radio show and they were saying that managers and players on the continent laugh at how ridiculous a player he is, say he has no idea on how to actually play football and would never have him in their squads. I can see that point of view. I always think what Arrigo Sacchi said about him is pretty good. Aside from as a trequartista he is muck in terms of knowing how to actually play football and is actually a liability more often than not. His positional discipline is so bad for an elite-level pro footballer that it's actually funny. If he wasn't really good as a second striker he'd have to go down as one of the most overrated players of all time, surely. As for England last night: a pretty even first half full of poor football, but Sweden came out and passed them off the park in the second. Sweden are a typically Swedish side: pragmatic and without any spectacular players (bar the obvious), but England made them look really good in that second half. Unbelievable how England won really after being outplayed the entire second half. Walcott, as much as I don't rate him, did change the game. Sweden couldn't deal with his pace. I haven't made up my mind as to whether Welbeck meant his goal or not. I tend to think not, as I don't think he has the imagination or ability to pull something like that off. He might have had that idea, but the ball hit the back of his calf and he was falling over, so there was certainly a huge element of luck about it. He was crap beyond the goal, Mellberg had him in his pocket all night with the exception of it. To be fair to him, had Messi scored that goal, we'd all be raving about it being genius. But then, perhaps that's because it's much easier to believe Messi could pull that off. It's Danny Welbeck we are talking about here ffs. Still think the Ukraine could get the win they need, Yarmolenko and Konoplyanka are impressive players. Debuchy ripped Ashley Cole apart in the France game so he can be got at, and Glen Johnson is shite defensively. If England do get the point they need they'll likely be facing Spain and that's where it will all end. They haven't been impressive at all in this tournament and should really have no points. In fairness to them, in terms of results, they're doing better than people expected. Makes a change from people hyping them up to unrealistic levels and then inevitably being disappointed. Edited June 16, 2012 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Oh, and don't worry, I'm fully prepared for the 'anti-English' accusations that are coming my way, even though English people themselves have been even more critical of the team than I am above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Cole is by a mile (best left back in the world), but nothing to shout home about in that game. Gerrard put one good ball in and needed Parker to carry him in midfield, other than the cross he done more bad than good. Welbeck was no where to be seen for most of the game, England barely created anything going forward. Being shite in the league for ages (stretching back to before the start of last season)but putting in some storming performances in the latter games of a fluky CL tournament win makes someone 'the best LB in the world by a mile'? You're right about Welbeck, Gerrard and Parker though. As far as I am aware, Cole isn't considered the best LB in the world anywhere else but Britain. His performances were woeful for ages before the latter stages of this season's CL and Abidal was clearly the world's best LB. Anyone who watched foreign football could have told you that (although Abidal did play CB for Barca for a stage). Marcelo had also outperformed Cole for a few years (admittedly in a better team). Perhaps Cole is the best LB now but I'd still rather have Lahm at LB than him. Debuchy got in behind Cole constantly in the first game and he was given all manner of problems last night as well. Yarmolenko and/or Konoplyanka have it in them to utterly destroy him. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but Cole most certainly isn't the mythical God-like left-back he's proclaimed to be in this country. Whoever said Young is a highlights player who only looks good on MotD is spot on, by the way. Edited June 16, 2012 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Being shite in the league for ages (stretching back to before the start of last season)but putting in some storming performances in the latter games of a fluky CL tournament win makes someone 'the best LB in the world by a mile'? As far as I am aware, Cole isn't considered the best LB in the world anywhere else but Britain. His performances were woeful for ages before the latter stages of this season's CL and Abidal was clearly the world's best LB. Anyone who watched foreign football could have told you that (although Abidal did play CB for Barca for a stage). Marcelo had also outperformed Cole for a few years (admittedly in a better team). Perhaps Cole is the best LB now but I'd still rather have Lahm at LB than him. Debuchy got in behind Cole constantly in the first game and he was given all manner of problems last night as well. Yarmolenko and/or Konoplyanka have it in them to utterly destroy him. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but Cole most certainly isn't the mythical God-like left-back he's proclaimed to be in this country. Whoever said Young is a highlights player who only looks good on MotD is spot on, by the way. Based on his career he is the best lb in the world. He was the best lb in the prem last year as well. Lahm, really? He's a better version of Ramos, but would be murdered for their lack of defensive ability, just a foreign Glenn Johnson. Totally agree on Gerrard with you. Edited June 16, 2012 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Based on his career he is the best lb in the world. He was the best lb in the prem last year as well. Lahm, really? He's a better version of Ramos, but would be murdered for their lack of defensive ability, just a foreign Glenn Johnson. Totally agree on Gerrard with you. Fucking hell. Anyone who watches Lahm regularly (he's been a bit more dodgy this season) can tell you that he's better defensively than Cole. For you to say 'Lahm, really?' and disrespect him like there's no argument between him and Cole is why people think the English are arrogant. Cole was the best LB in the PL last season? That's because there wasn't much competition. There were no standout LBs. He was average in most PL games I watched him in. Most foreign people rate Lahm more highly than Cole. Also, your dig at Ramos is pathetic as well, given that he's one of the best right-backs in the world and has been playing well at centre-back for the last year or so as well (his preferred position). As a right-back, he's underrated defensively and infinitely better going forward than Ashley Cole will ever be at LB. As for Cole 'throughout his career' - he's had plenty of mediocre seasons. Chelsea didn't win the league for three years after he joined and he contributed to that by being nothing special for them in that time. It's ironic that you (rightly) hate how Gerrard has this 'untouchable' air in England, when you're actually building up Cole in the same way. I don't mean to get annoyed, but your severe underrating of Ramos and Lahm is irritating, especially when you're making Cole out to be Nilton Santos. Most foreign people rate Ramos AND Lahm above Cole as players. Calling Lahm and Ramos 'foreign Glen Johnsons' is risible and deserves nothing but contempt. Edited June 16, 2012 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Ramos is one of those players. The type who when a British person talks about him you just know they only watch him in the CL and they never watch foreign leagues. The same old tired cliches are rolled out about him...'can't defend, no footballing brain' etc, when it clearly isn't the case if you've actually watched him on a regular basis. Other recent examples of this type of player are Totti and Ibrahimovic. They've never been rated in England either because they haven't played well against English teams in Europe. This despite the fact that Totti is better than any English player since Gascoigne and every club in the world would kill to have him in their team. I don't actually want to be a cunt here but how else am I supposed to respond to someone who talks as if Ramos and Lahm are glorified Glen Johnsons? There's just no reasoning with someone who has made up their mind like that. There's no point even debating with someone that biased. Edited June 16, 2012 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Anyone who rates Lahn and Ramos (only in the team cos of who his dad is), obviously only plays Football Manager or is the type of person who thinks Gareth Bale is WC. In either case your not basing it on their footballing ability, or lack of in this case. How anyone can say Cole is average is ridiculous, he's a cunt, but a very good footballer. I've never seen a better full-back, I'd put him with best Cafu and Gary Neville. Totti was great back when Goalisimo was better than motd, injuries ruined him. Ibra is class, most people (Romey aside) think that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Anyone who rates Lahn and Ramos (only in the team cos of who his dad is), obviously only plays Football Manager or is the type of person who thinks Gareth Bale is WC. In either case your not basing it on their footballing ability, or lack of in this case. How anyone can say Cole is average is ridiculous, he's a cunt, but a very good footballer. I've never seen a better full-back, I'd put him with best Cafu and Gary Neville. Totti was great back when Goalisimo was better than motd, injuries ruined him. Ibra is class, most people (Romey aside) think that Anyone who rates Lahm and Ramos must play football manager? Never played FM in my life mate. Perhaps unlike you, people actually watch these players regularly? I bet I coould count on one hand the number of domestic games you watched last season involving both players. Who is Ramos' dad? Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Sergio Busquets? Either way, accusations of nepotism are very unfair. Both Ramos and Lahm are excellent players. Bale is a decent player but vastly overrated. I was one of the people slagging Bale off when he won PotY due to two good games in a different competition and a mediocre domestic season, so you've failed spectacularly in trying to find a correlation between my views on Ramos and lahm and my views on Bale. Also, misrepresenting what i am saying is out of order. Where have I ever claimed Cole is average? Please tell me where I have said he is of average talent? He's clearly a talented player, but the point I have made is that he has not consistently performed throughout his career and that he is not as good as people like you claim. I've never claimed he is average. Saying Ramos and Lahm possess a lack of ability is cringeworthy. As for saying that Cole is as good a full-back as you have ever seen, and then putting him and Gary Neville alongside Cafu?! So you've never seen better full-backs than Cole and Neville? You really have lived a sheltered life haven't you? Javier Zanetti and Lilian Thuram, Paolo Maldini (the best of all) and Bixente Lizarazu. There's two right-backs and two left-backs who piss all over Neville and Cole (I haven't even got to full-backs still playing or in their prime which rules out Zanetti), who are good players, but are overrated by the likes of you. it's funny how Cole is the best left back you've ever seen yet nobody on the continent has ever tabled an offer for this genius. Similar to Gerrard actually... Tottiwas better a few years ago but he is getting older and a decline is to be expected. Nevertheless, he was amongst the best players in the world until about the age of 31. I wouldn't say he's up there now. Loads of English people think Ibra is shite, it's all over the media and the internet. English people exist outside of toffeetalk you know. I'm not even Zlatan's biggest fan but many English people talk of him like he has no ability, which is astounding. Edited June 16, 2012 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Ramos' dad is on the board for Real, think he even ran for president as well. Watched him many times, and always said he's only there because of his family. Arbeloa is the better defender, even though he's been a bit shite because he hasnt had a proper run of games. Totti was one of my favourite players when I was younger, to blame his decline on his age is a joke, injuries fucked him way before time. Thuram and Maldini are centre backs, Zanetti and LIz were class but not a head of the ones I've mentioned. Cole was courted by many, but Chelsea at the time was paying the big bucks and gazumping everyone. Ibra has won the league with every club he has played for, Mourinho said he's the best striker he's managed and I'm not going to argue with that. You obviously just have a problem with English people, and the English Premier League. I watch other leagues, and the prem is the best league in the world, then the Bundesliga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 we're back to this again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 They're like a pair of stags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Ramos' dad is on the board for Real, think he even ran for president as well. Watched him many times, and always said he's only there because of his family. Arbeloa is the better defender, even though he's been a bit shite because he hasnt had a proper run of games. Totti was one of my favourite players when I was younger, to blame his decline on his age is a joke, injuries fucked him way before time. Thuram and Maldini are centre backs, Zanetti and LIz were class but not a head of the ones I've mentioned. Cole was courted by many, but Chelsea at the time was paying the big bucks and gazumping everyone. Ibra has won the league with every club he has played for, Mourinho said he's the best striker he's managed and I'm not going to argue with that. You obviously just have a problem with English people, and the English Premier League. I watch other leagues, and the prem is the best league in the world, then the Bundesliga. Wouldnt bother mate. He often doesnt know what he is talking about and is so anti premier league its unreal. There's is no doubt in anyone's mind across the globe who watches football who the best left back in the world is. Diagree about Arbeloa though I have always thought that he was a clown. I dont think he could believe his luck when Real Madrid came calling. If he looks good in the La Liga then it must be like going to the sunday league over in spain as he was carved up nearly every match he played over in the Premier league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Being shite in the league for ages (stretching back to before the start of last season)but putting in some storming performances in the latter games of a fluky CL tournament win makes someone 'the best LB in the world by a mile'? You're right about Welbeck, Gerrard and Parker though. As far as I am aware, Cole isn't considered the best LB in the world anywhere else but Britain. His performances were woeful for ages before the latter stages of this season's CL and Abidal was clearly the world's best LB. Anyone who watched foreign football could have told you that (although Abidal did play CB for Barca for a stage). Marcelo had also outperformed Cole for a few years (admittedly in a better team). Perhaps Cole is the best LB now but I'd still rather have Lahm at LB than him. Debuchy got in behind Cole constantly in the first game and he was given all manner of problems last night as well. Yarmolenko and/or Konoplyanka have it in them to utterly destroy him. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but Cole most certainly isn't the mythical God-like left-back he's proclaimed to be in this country. Whoever said Young is a highlights player who only looks good on MotD is spot on, by the way. Marcelo is a shambles defensively mate and he cant he even get into the side at Real Madrid. They play contraoa? spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Marcelo is a shambles defensively mate and he cant he even get into the side at Real Madrid. They play contraoa? spelling. Marcelo played 44 games for Real this season (and is the world's best left back). Coentrao 33 and a lot of them in midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaminfox Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Marcelo played 44 games for Real this season (and is the world's best left back). Coentrao 33 and a lot of them in midfield. I would not call him the worlds left back however, he did start many more times then coentrao and i think coentrao even got a lot of games as a sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 abidal was always massively overrated imo...offers nothin goin forward and is just a big guy at the back..not enough for me as for marcelo..the world's best lb? bein a lb in a real madrid team is a piece of piss...if baines played for them he'd be awesome...they don't need to defend so any full back who can attack will be great for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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