Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Romey 1878

Scotland Road?

Recommended Posts

"Evertonians should be able to see all the options before they vote. I can see no better option than keeping the club in the city and in Everton itself."

 

My point exactly!

 

I like the scottie site but what would access be like, as it is now it's bloody hard to get anywhere around that area on foot.

 

I hope all the other sights are highlighted in the comming weeks to enlighten Evertonians & prove KW wrong with his "no plan B" comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Too little too late from LCC. Would be great to actually be in Everton but I dont think we'd have the finances (even with the partners listed). From what is mentioned it sounds like this would cost in the region of 300mill. I like the idea of Scotty Rd but fear its lacking in size. Still, some feasibility study and actual proper plans need to be drawn up quickly otherwise its nothing but a pipe dream (will probably put a spanner in the works though regarding the outcome of the vote).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would people who are worried at the idea of The Tesco Arena be OK with The Bestway Bowl :unsure: . Just a thought.

 

Look it could be worse we could be named after Aldi or netto ... Tesco is a huge company it will be a success if the shite dont get hienz ,we will certainly get the beans :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that this could be a good move for the club.

 

Benefits include more income from sponsorships for naming rights.

Walking distance from city centre

Prominent position on Liverpool waterfront

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have no idea why we want to build a bigger stadium. we couldnt even pack out a fourth round fa cup game last season. Ticket prices will increase and a lot of people are finding it hard to afford games now. The stands are going to be empty. And wen we do move it shouldnt be to out of the city we are a club from liverpool, the peoples club and we shud stay wer the people are in liverpool. i for one am not going to even Attempt to travel t kirby on match day the traffic is bad enuf going to Goodison. I Think i will be buyin a new radio my personal opinion anyway. i think scottie road could be a good venue p.s has anyone heard about moyes resigining. All ment to be coming out 2mora apparantly?????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we build it, they will come.

 

The point of moving stadium is not really that much to do with attendances.. It's to do with increasing revenue and decreasing costs of maintenance.

 

Everton FC are hoping a new stadium will encourage more companies to make use of their corporate facilities which are barely existent in Goodison park. Keith Wyness reckons it will supply up to £10million extra income per year. This is enough to manage our debt repayments and in the future it could be used to pay for transfers.

 

However.. many people including myself beleive that this will increase more so at the Scotland road site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

right guys i need your help on this. Maybe i have missed something but have any details been released about this site and the propasals for it. All i seem to find is the council saying its very deliverable but i cant find anything to tell me how deliverable it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im with you mate, i really wanna see something more detailed about this one. pretty much the most appealing one for me, the one that has turned me from kirkby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is what was told on Friday at the Keioc meeting.

 

Bestway are willing to put more money into the project than Tesco are. They have no shareholders to create profit for and they are more lenient to help build the stadium for PR Reasons (no one had heard of bestway last month despite them being the second biggest cash and carry in the country).

 

They wish to introduce to HOK Sport to the project (The company who developed Emirates)

 

The club can earn more money for naming rights due to increased exposure due to location of the site

 

If the stadium goes ahead in scotland road lib dem will be given a grant for a new train station between Moorfields and Sandhills on the Northern line. (Ideal having two stations at a similar distance from the stadium on different lines to ease congestion).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This bloke is a fuckin disgrace!

 

A few responses / questions from me.

 

In the light of the joint statement issued on Monday, August 6 by Liverpool City Council and Bestway, the owners of the "trumpet" loop site located just off Scotland Road, I feel it is imperative that we pass comment both by asking those who regard this site as a possible location for a new home for Everton Football Club a series of highly-pertinent questions and by making some general observations.

 

Why, if the site is, indeed, both deliverable and suitable, is it only now being touted as a viable possibility? We, as a Club, have been engaged in talks with Knowsley Borough Council and Tesco about the possibility of relocating to Kirkby for the best part of 18 months and yet only now has this site been put forward as a possible alternative.

 

During which time you were signed into an exclusivity agrrement and leagally nobody else was allowed to publish any other proposals & you and your mate at Tesco did everything in your power to keep the Tesco Kirkby deal the only option. In opposition I'll pose the question why did you spend 18 months focusing on one proposal instead of a full design study into every option?

 

During what was an exhaustive and lengthy search for a suitable and deliverable site within the Liverpool city boundaries not once was the Scotland Road "option" even mentioned. Up until two weeks ago, the City Council was enthusiastically claiming that it had sites in both Speke and Aintree which they believed to be deliverable and which they wished us to seriously consider. Since the announcement of the Scotland Road site there has been no mention of either – why is this?

 

Because the introduction of the Scotland Road site was instigated by it's owners Bestway who approached KEIOC & LCC have little to do with that apart from planning permission etc which they seem positive about!

 

With regard to the actual availability of the site, we understand that it is has, for some considerable time, been under consideration for the relocation of businesses to accommodate Project Jennifer for St Modwen. Is this the case?

In order to provide the retail element which is essential to make any new stadium project deliverable, further land adjoining the current site would be required. Is this land available, who currently owns it and what would the purchase cost be?

 

Would any compulsory purchase orders be required in order that we could attain the size of site we require? If CPOs are required, is it not the case that they could take up to 12 months to attain?

 

Liverpool City Council would be required to demonstrate what is know as "best consideration" in any land transactions – they would have to show that any deal was in the best interests of the people of the city. This, we are told, can prove to be a very lengthy process. Is that correct and is there cross-party support for the Scotland Road site within Liverpool City Council?

 

All fair questions which we would all expect answered

 

Is the site actually suitable? Would a 50,000-seater stadium fit on the available land whilst guaranteeing the required circulation space for supporters and vehicles?

 

Seriously you twit, you took 18 months to look at Kirkby give us a chance to define the details for more than a few weeks. The question must be asked of you wouldnt we have a far better idea of all the available options & fesibility if you hade been more open minded in your search for a site?

 

We do not believe that the existing transport infrastructure in the Scotland Road area would be able to cope with the volume of traffic generated on matchdays. It does seem inevitable that several bridges would have to be constructed. What would be the cost of upgrading the infrastructure and who will foot the bill?

 

The same question can be posed to Kirkby which only realy has the advantage of being "Close" to the M57 but I work here and once your off the motorway entering Kirkby it's self can become problematic at rush hour never mind with 50,000 fans the majority of whom will now be forced to travel by car or bus.

 

Would the construction of a development which would also include a large retail element not dramatically undermine – and anger – those behind the Grosvenor and Project Jennifer schemes? Is there not a very real possibility of a legal challenge from these other developers?

 

Just likethe Kirkby residents who are fighting tooth and nail to save Kirkby, if you can steem roller the public Kieth surly you can take on a few developers too!

 

What is the proposed timeline for any development on this site? We believe it would take between six and nine months to complete a comprehensive feasibility study, a further six to nine months to prepare a planning application and then an additional four to six months to receive a formal planning decision. In addition, if the scheme was to be "called in" by central government, the entire project could be subjected to a delay of anything up to a year.

Aye tis true so why did you sign that exclusivity agreement? We could have been carrying out fesibility studys into several sites at the same time but becaus of your pally aproach with Tesco we have lost massive amounts of time and for who's benifit? Tesco seem to be the only people who benifited from the agreement. Care to explain?

 

Without wishing, in any way, to call into question the integrity and professionalism of those who have pulled the Scotland Road "rabbit" out of a hitherto cunningly-concealed hat, we do find it curious that it is being portrayed as a genuine, realistic and deliverable scheme at the precise moment our supporters are being invited to participate in a ballot about our proposed relocation to Kirkby.

 

We also think its curious the way you have handled this whole affair with your hugely bias propoganda tool, exclusivity agreements, only looking into one site, you have lost the trust of Evertonians Keith especialy since the balance swung in favour of the no vote when us the fans were informed of the TRUTH and all of a sudden "skint" Everton find 20mil to spray around in the transfare market!

 

End the smoke and mirrors Kieth before you completely loose the trust of all Evertonians

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Every point he makes is a solid one

 

Think you missed the point of my post mate, yes they are valid questions but the fact is there are not answers for most of them because everton themselves scared everyone off by entering into an exclusivity agreement with Tesco.

 

Of course Evertons proposed Kirkby deal is in a far more advanced stage than any other. Why? Because Everton made it impossible for any oposition from the outset. The club used every tactic they could to keep the Kirkby project at the forefront and all others from getting of the ground this is a seriously below the belt argument to be putting forward, the fact is he restricted any of this information from being collated over the past 18 months so to now use it against us is a joke!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Think you missed the point of my post mate, yes they are valid questions but the fact is there are not answers for most of them because everton themselves scared everyone off by entering into an exclusivity agreement with Tesco.

 

Of course Evertons proposed Kirkby deal is in a far more advanced stage than any other. Why? Because Everton made it impossible for any oposition from the outset. The club used every tactic they could to keep the Kirkby project at the forefront and all others from getting of the ground this is a seriously below the belt argument to be putting forward, the fact is he restricted any of this information from being collated over the past 18 months so to now use it against us is a joke!

 

 

I think KW is just shitting himself that it will be a NO vote personally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An exclusivity agreement between Everton, Knowsley and Tesco has absolutely no impact on Bestway, LCC and KEIOC surely. Wyness has no power to restrict the activities of any group not involved in the agreement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The agreement ment nobody could publish any findings so spending cash on preparing a proposal would have been extreamly risky as Everton could have signed the deal to go to Kirkby whilst the agreement was in place and anyone with opposing plans would have wasted their money!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The agreement ment nobody could publish any findings..

 

 

Sorry Liam but that's just not true, an agreement is only binding on the parties involved in the agreement, not on anyone else. Far more risk financially to throw together a last minute proposal I'd have thought. The deal was never going to be signed before details published/ballot taken anyway.

 

Got to keep this sensible, there's no point the "no" camp continually accusing the club of outrageous spin but then doing exactly the same thing themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Think you missed the point of my post mate, yes they are valid questions but the fact is there are not answers for most of them because everton themselves scared everyone off by entering into an exclusivity agreement with Tesco.

 

Of course Evertons proposed Kirkby deal is in a far more advanced stage than any other. Why? Because Everton made it impossible for any oposition from the outset. The club used every tactic they could to keep the Kirkby project at the forefront and all others from getting of the ground this is a seriously below the belt argument to be putting forward, the fact is he restricted any of this information from being collated over the past 18 months so to now use it against us is a joke!

 

What he is saying is right though with regards to the fact Liverpool FC county councilgive land to them (LFC) that we had enquired about before and got a grade II listed park answer instead of yes Like LFC got no problem. Also when negotiating the Kings Dock Liverpool city council drag their heels and make up a load of bollox about city centre conjestion problems on match days (which they did). Then offer us nothing for 18 months and only until the threat of leaving has it engaged a few and only a few people in the council to make half hearted attempts to pursuede that sites are available in the city boundary with the finance. Look at the size of stanley park site compared to the trumpet site no copmarison mate. I would prefer to stay in the city boundary don't get me wrong but we need to move on and in a couple of years anyway Kirby, Sefton and Huyton are all gonna come under Liverpool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was unaware of that Mike but I have been told several times that the exclusivity agreement between Everton, Knowlsley & Tesco stopped anyone from publishing publically any alternative findings, I dont know all the exact details but this is what I'v been told.

 

I realy have to question this exclusivity agreement especially when I know that several people have been declined copies of the agreement which under the freedom of information act should be made readily available as it involves local council & public land.

 

Why would the agreement not be free for public viewing if there was nothing to hide??

 

Also if this was and always has been an open debate why the agreement in the first place?

 

The way I see it KW has gone to every extent to keep all the planning between him and Tesco and it's clear that if KEIOC can come up with an alternative in a couple of weeks his statement of "extensive & exahusting search within Liverpool" is complete bollocks. Simple as the club has seen it's arse over the stanley park thing with the shite and made a decision not to work with LCC, they are cutting off our (the fans) noses to spite LCC do we the beating heart of EFC deserve that?

 

I'm sorry but I'm still open to the Kirkby move IF it turns out to be the best option but I'v lost all confidence in KW!!!

 

What he is saying is right though with regards to the fact Liverpool FC county councilgive land to them that we had enquired about before and got a grade II listed park answer instead off yes. Also when negotiating the Kings odkc Liverpool city council drag their heels and make up a load of bollox about city centre conjestion problems on match (which they did). Then offer us nothing for 18 months and only until the threat of leaving has it engaged a few and only a few people in the council to make half hearted attempts to pursuede that sites are available with the finance. Look at the size of stanley park compared to the trumpet no copmarison mate

 

LCC have treated us like shit but that doesnt mean we should just up sticks cos we dont like the elected council members who wont be there in a few years. Also the kings dock did have many obsticals to overcome but the fact is it only fell through cos we couldnt come up with out 30mil input!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everton city stadium plan: first picturesAug 16 2007

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6E660AD7-0BD6-BC09-9ECBA6D432B5667C.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

A RIVAL plan to stop Everton FC moving to Kirkby was unveiled today.

 

Cash-and-carry firm Bestway published the first images of the proposed 50,000-seater stadium on the site of its Scotland Road premises, also known as the “loop” or “tunnel trumpet”.

 

It includes a landmark tower containing a hotel and other leisure facilities.

 

Bestway has been working with Liverpool council on an alternative ground-move project in a bid to convince Everton FC to ditch its proposed relocation outside the city boundary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Company bosses today said it hoped fans would realise there is “an option to keep Everton in Everton” when voting in the ongoing ballot to decide the club’s future.

 

 

Blues chief executive Keith Wyness last week insisted the Bestway plans were not viable, saying the site was not big enough to accommodate the club’s ambitions.

 

 

But the company is now in talks with stadium architects HOK Sport, which designed Arsenal’s Emirates Stadium, and engineering firm WSP Group about progressing its scheme.

 

 

HOK did not draw up the images published today.

 

 

Bestway’s head of property Malcolm Carter said: “We hope that fans can see there is an option of voting to keep Everton in Everton from this proposal. The size and stature of the two companies we are working with shows how serious we are about the project and I know the council shares our determination.

 

 

“When the ballot is over we want to be in a position to sit down with the club and demonstrate our site is a viable option.”

 

 

Bestway described the images as “some of the early thoughts” surrounding the Scotland Road site rather than a finished design.

 

 

It said the tower would give the site “landmark status” and “increase its viability” by providing space for a hotel, leisure facilities and commercial uses.

 

 

It also wants to bridge surrounding roads so the site can be accessed and create a “suitably dramatic entrance” to the stadium.

 

 

Council leader Warren Bradley, who supports the Bestway proposal, said: “The loop site is a real possibility.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is only a very rough image - But to be honest they would have better of not presenting anything - as it looks and absolute mess and a eye sore.

 

Pubishing an such a half cocked poor image is worse than issuing nothing. No wonder HOK have distanced themselves from the image.

 

I can see why Tesco's are buddying up to us with Kirby, their is an obviouse advantage to them with us going to Kirby -

 

but what's the score with Bestway, what do they get out of any Scotland Rd Proposal - This is not clear to me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"what's the score with Bestway, what do they get out of any Scotland Rd Proposal"

 

......

 

Same as Knowsley, who want to regenerate Kirky, and Tesco'S want a nice new supermarket.

 

LCC want the new stadium to bridge the Gap that has always been empty except for Bestways Wharehouse, Bestways want a nice new Wharehouse across the road in a regenerated and updated Area.

Same difference but they now have Hotel chains also willing to invest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know they own the site, but they are not just going to give it to us are they.

 

As I said its easy to see why tesco's are willing to actually give Everton money to build a new stadium and bend over backwards to help us out moneywise - It is in their interest at Kirby. Very transparent and straight forward to me.

 

Bestway - Own a small site - that will just about fit a stadium etc on it, what is their involvment.

 

All I can think of is that they will get a decent price for their site.

 

I just don't understand Bestway's proposal unless they are hoping to make a few quid directly out of Everton football club with the sale or lease of thier site.

 

Any answer please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bestway give the land to LCC in exchange for a different plot of land to build a shiney new warehouse and LCC sell us the land & sort out the planning permission to build on it, it's relativly straight forward realy. As for the magical 50mil from tesco that is a commercial investement i.e they help Everton to afford the stadium and in exchange the land & planning issues previously a major problem open up to them allowing them to build another superstore.

 

I think alot of people are getting confused over bestway because the situation is unlike the kirkby one, in kirkby the land is directly owned by the council so it's simple whereas the bestway warehouse is currently on the land at scottie. This however has very little to do with us LCC & bestway are working together on a relocation plan and if LCC have said the land is ours should we want it then it is ours!

 

BESTWAY ARE NOT THE COMMERCIAL PARTNER FOR THE LOOP SITE AND WOULD NOT BE PUTTING MONEY INTO OUR STADIUM THEY ARE IN THIS TO GET AN ASSISTED RELOCATION AND POSSIBLE GRANT MONEY FROM LCC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in effect - all we are saying is that there is a piece of land that may be available for us to buy. No partners, finacial assistance or other soild development etc on board. (This is sort of what I have suspected)

 

Just Bestways tring to broker themselves another site instead of Scotland Rd. I've got the feeling they have seen Everton wanting to move as a ideal opptunity to try an get themselves a better plot of land and ditch Scotland Rd. They have latch on to a group of Everton fans who don't want to leave the city - and come up with a half baked proposal.

 

To me doesn't sound as if their is much insentive for Everton finacially in this proposal, so to that end doesn't sound like anywhere near a viable option. Just playing on the fact the land is in the city - and we can buy it of them if we like (Emm that's good of them)

 

Kirby is a very true and viable option, that is likley to be delivered in 3-4 years.

 

Scotland Rd - Is a pie in the sky, spanner in the works option that will never happen.

 

I think anybody can see though that once any rose tinted glasses have been taken off.

 

These two options are at least a £100M apart finacially for Everton, if not more.

 

So much talk of the Scotland Rd site is incorretly painting a pitcure of another viable option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know if you are familiar with the Area Rob cos your profile says Location unknown and age Unknown, but the piece of land that Bestway sits on has always been the Stumbling block for the Area in regards to re-developing, the site is difficult to get onto (only one access road) and nobody has been willing to share with Bestway or the surroundig area which has been in a poor state for many years.

LCC sees this as a chance to eradicate that piece of land that nobody wants, a Stadium come Hotel complex would use it all in one swoop, (10 acres as opposed to 7 acres at Goodison) and then its the surrounding areas which have been held back by that piece of wasteland that are the next stage for re-developement in the City

Its no different than Knowsley wanting EFC to re-generate KIRKY and Bestway is no different from Tesco's wanting a nice new Supermarket.

 

As regards to the Finances and investments, we wont know how much or how many want to invest until, or if ever this offer is accepted, but you can bet your wages that any investment at all will be worth 3 times more in the City than it will be out in the Sticks, and just the naming rights alone would bring more than what Tesco's are offering.

 

But dont Panic, as i've said in another post, i think the Kirkby deal is already sorted does'nt matter how the Vote goes, in fact the reason they put it to the Supporters is that when it all goes wrong, they can turn around and say well you voted for it and its what you wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If thats your view that's up to you and it is exactly what the board were hoping for by signing the exclusivity agreement. Any other options are 18 months behind the kirkby deal because nobody at the club bothered their fat arses to do this properly.

 

The Scotland road site or any other site near town would generate more commercial investement than Kirkby, more sponsorship / naming rights & once built command a higher revenue stream for the remainder of it's life span!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just seen the two pictures on icliverpool, i like that a lot.

i think the kirkby design is very good, but i believe this would really stand out. i look forward to more details.

 

looking at the design made me think about parking under the stadium and that the lower maybe 5 floors of the hotel could maybe be retail/shopping centre/leisure. just a few things that came to mind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I havnt realy followed all the other options , just realy looked at the actuall kirkby site. So im sorry if my question sounds realy dumb.

 

Why wouldnt tesco still suport us if it was scotland rd and not kirkby. (or any other site in liverpool for that matter) Why will they only support us on the kirkby site?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really them supporting us at Kirky (IMO), it's us supporting them. They would be very hard pressed to get a new Tesco's on that land, it's where they want it and we're helping them get it. In return, we get their financial help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Kieth Wyness wants to see Everton with a half empty stadium which isnt in the city center because he seems persistent to move to Kirkby and not listen to what ever other people say. Has he even seen any of the plans himself na hes to busy sucking up to Tesco and people with money. I may be proven wrong but i say we will move to Kirkby but i support good old Scotty Road

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×