Trigger

I thought Fellani had a £750k loyalty bonus (according to SSN). When Felli handed in his transfer request, the £750k is no longer due to be paid to him by Everton. If I understand it right, if Felli hadn't handed in the transfer request then he would have been due to be paid £750k by Everton on him leaving. Of course Everton would try and get the buying club to cover the £750k one way or another.

Amen Brother!

See link below. Clear as mud innit http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim64115.htm "In the English Football League, transfers between clubs entail the new club paying the League a levy of five per cent of the transfer fee. Signing-on fees are payable to the player at the discretion of the new club and will normally have been agreed between the player and the new club during transfer negotiations. The signing-on fee payable to the player is stated in the contract and is normally payable by equal instalments over the period of the contract, which may sometimes include the period over which there is an option to extend the contract. Where the player is subsequently transferred at the request of his club, any unpaid instalments of the earlier signing-on fee are payable immediately. But where the player requests a transfer he forfeits any such unpaid instalments unless the management committee is satisfied that his transfer request was made on reasonable grounds. Instalments of signing-on fees are chargeable to tax on receipt."

I'm happy for Fellaini and Baines to go, but has to be for the right price, which for me £45-£50m. We have to be realistic and understand our business model is based upon making large profits on players brought in. We should be able to find the next Fellaini, Baines and then some with the money raised. I don't like not being able to fight on the same financial level as the top 4, but we are where we are until we get a major funding vehicle of some sort.

Although their maths are wrong, just bear in mind that that if we sell a player for £15m, we do not have the directly to buy one in £15m. The tax man takes a share when you sell a player and no doubt there are a load of other costs e.g. Legal, Admin, twatty agents etc. that will also get covered.

I'd quite like to see us push Miralles forward to play upfront with a partner and bring in a right winger. Given we're looking for a 20 goal a season forward and Miralles is excellent in front of goal and has an excllent scoring record previous to Everton, I can;t see why we wouldn't to be honest.

I voted Coleman mainly because the way he has come on as a player this season has been a complete surprise to me and therefore more of a "revelation". Mirallas has done brilliantly, but was rated highly before joining us. Anichibe has also improved, but has still has a lot to go yet in my opinion.

I disagree that the model is unacceptable. I'd agree it's barely sustainable (but it is just) and the likelyhood of it producing a consistant Top 4 finish is a remote one. However, In my opinion, it is better this way than beting everything on "black" and seeing what happens. I also disagree that a New Stadium on its own is the solution. It would need a strategic investment across playing staff, improved infrastructure and a fully funded commercial/marketing plan around generating greater income internationally. This can only be done with "sugar daddy" investor who doesn't mind too much if it doesn't work. QPR and Fernandes come to mind, although who knows in another few years. And talking of FACTS there is absolutely no way on this earth you can state that a New Stadium can be guarenteed to make EFC more successful unless you can guarentee the forecasted revenues it would produce (which you can't because no one can). I would argue that if any money at all got diverted at all from player or staff wage budgets to in any way to fund or end up filling a funding void should forecasted tickets or marketing sales fall short then we would fall out of the premiership.

I just don't see a "right" or "only" way forward here. It's simply a matter of what we are willing to risk as a club to potentially gain further success and move us on. Clubs fit in to sort of 4 models to me. 1) Run your club on a "Championship League" cost base, make money while you're in the premiership, make less or break even if you're in the championship. Player Wages are generally low, very little if any transfer spending over £5m,most players brought up through lower leagues, loans or youth system. I'd view WBA as opperating under this model. There is very little risk your club is going to go into administration, but then again there's a VERY SMALL chance you're ever going to get in to the Top 4. 2) Sell your club (and usually it's soul) to a mega-rich bazillionaire who got bored of racing his ferrari's with the other rich folks and wants a new challenge and to show that he/she can manage his/her toy better than his mega-rich peers. Great way to get success in the short term, we've yet to see what happens in 20 years+ when they all get bored of their "football club toys" and move on and take their money elsewhere. I'd view Man City and Chelsea in this model. 3) Live within your means model. The model we pretty much operate in today. We try to control costs as best we can, buy great players when we have the financial resources. Sell our better players at huge profit when it's right. We look to move stadium if we can do it at relatively low risk with as much funding provided risk free by other parties who may also benefit e.g. a Tesco, Council/Government Grants etc. We only move forward if we believe we can do so without signing up to a funding model where if the forecasted gates and marketing revenues are not met, we don't go into administration and turn in to the next Portsmouth. 4) Raise your own capital based upon the forecast of success. Build a new stadium, buy expensive great players all based upon funding from investors/banks on the promise that your forecast business case says you'll get bigger crowds who will pay more for the better facilities (Arsenal I believe are the most expensive season ticket club in the premiership) and the forecast success with better players will meen more overseas marketing income as well as European Football revenues. I'd view Arsenal in this Model, but also Leeds which means it's a major risk. You're shooting for the moon here, where if verything goes as it should, you could have your next Man Utd being developed. If it goes wrong then you we will be the next Leeds. Since there are no guarentees of success and we don't have a bazillionaire ready to buy us. I'm happy with the model we have. I want us to break in to the top 4 with what we have now as I believe if we get the right manager we can do this. Then if we can get even a half-decent run in Europe we can probably look at funding a new stadium in a viable way. To me John Burns proposes an Option 4) model that I think is too risky for us.

I was writing a response, but just deleted it as Steve_E has covered everything I wanted to say. Thanks

One Question: 11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist? - no premiership experience - some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better. - no european experience He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though! I think Martinez is a similar mould and he would be my choice. If we selceted an experienced (top division and european) and successful with a large transfer/wage budget and European I think it would be a very expensive mistake with us probablyt ending up the next Leeds Utd.

Kone? Really? He's never struck me as the 20 goals a season striker we need.

Transitions of managers from a club doing relatively well never go smoothly. I'd personally like Martinez, but fully expect a dip in league position next year while he builds the team and type of play he wants. Undoubtedly we'll lose Felli and Baines as well. I just hope we get the top end of the money spectrum from them for the new manager to rebuild with.

Voted for Coleman. I don't think Pienaar was outstanding today. This is the standard of performance he should be displaying consistantly

I don't reckon they will. From what I've read they have a lot of high wage earners. I think they have too many players where the money is more important than their career that will not move unless their wages are kept at a similar rate.

Absolute class!

One thing is for sure. Now the media know we can even vaguely possibly spend £8.5m, we're going to be linked with every available player between now and the end of the window. Then probably ongoing in to the summer as well!

Of course they wouldn't take their word, hence the medical. but seriously, Wiggle Room? In a multimillion pound negotiation? Twente would be expected to negotiate at that point what if the medical fails? Good Luck with that.

Isn't that what we're doing? Twente say: "yeah the young lad Fer has a bit of a knee problem, but it's nothing serious our medical staff have full confidence it will not affect him long term, we're happy for your medical chaps to have a look at confirm." Everton say: "ok we'll provisionally sign off on the commercials discussed, subject to the medical and personal terms." then we do the medical... oh look! Everton say: " we do not agree with your medical assessment, we belive based on facts x,y,z etc. that we need to safeguard our investment based upon these new payment terms to mitigate the risk of the player having knee problems later in his career." the problem in the way we handle this is what?

How anybody thinks the club is at fault in any way is simply beyond me on this. The knee problem may or not have been known about. His medical records on the subject will be confidential and unavailable till the fee is agreed, so the true factual extent of the problem will not be fully understood until the medical. Lots of transfers at lots of major clubs have fallen down at this stage before. Everyone knew Lescott had dodgy legs at the time, so should we have not put in a bid for him?

What does "signed" mean in the column we sold? We got Per Kroldrop in for £5M and then it says he was "signed" when we sold him on in the same season? I can't believe for one second we would have paid the £5M and got nothing back at all.

I'm sure Bracewell was in the Pannini Sticker album England squad for Mexico 86

In Mexico 86 didn't Bracewell have to pull out because of a broken leg or something and only 4 went in the end?

Hmmmmm.... Sounds to me like he could well be just using us to get better Arsenal Personal Terms. I hope not, but it wouldn't be the first time we've been used like this.

Yup, just a few things.... The price, term of contract, signing on fee, medical and Agent's 30% nearly there.....