nogs

Notice Schneiderlin has been moaned about even though he was played into danger. Yet Gana under no pressure nearly gave them an assist without mention. 

💩🙈

In these uncertain times its nice to know there are still some certainties in life. 

Been enjoying a warm weather midwinter break away from the forum... As @markjazzbassist says, very happy at this rumour! Exactly where we should be investing, young talent with bags of potential to get better.
As for the 'it's only the Championship' naysayers... I saw him score twice off the bench against Spurs in the League Cup when Sheff Utd were still in League 1 and he was about 19. He terrified the Spurs defence, fast, direct and clinical in front of goal. 

We'd still face the same problems we're seeing this season imo, other teams playing three in midfield and overrunning our two. Bernard is hardly going to de an improvement on Sigurdsson when we don't have the ball. 

No you never, you've added the pep stuff yesterday. Now you're putting 5 points, those 5 points could've been said straight away if it wasn't half said in your head instead. Likewise you've added to this with your point 4 and 5.
Regarding point 2 and 3 you've not explained why these players need more time considering they are all better and playing better than the players they come into replace. Or why it's exceptable for Silva to hide behind the 'mess' when the last manager done a better job with a more disjointed squad. 
Point 1 isn'ttt really an argument. I can't remember you saying the same for Sam Allardyce. Plus the question is why should he get more time, there's no answer to the why. 
Point 5 is a fair reason you don't want to be a sacking club. I don't agree with it as he's underperforming I'd rather have a new manager come in but that's how a forum works, someone says I believe this because and another says I'd prefer or adds why they agree too. No need to throw insults and in general just be an arse about it. If it gets heated fair enough but from my posts and yours, you've just been an idiot for no reason. 
Nothing to do with my view I was simply trying to comprehend yours. Seriously get a friend to read back all the posts with you because I give up trying to explain/discuss as its like pulling teeth. 
BTW you started this off with a condescending "It's almost touching how much you cling to this 'massive upgrade' bollocks." so to then call me condescending and throw insults because I've asked you to explain your argument is fucking brilliant. 

He's not exactly done anything since he joined us. The club has paid him more than any other, even gave him a payrise without merit, and raised his profile. What has he done in return? He's not earned his move like say Lukaku who scored shed loads of goals and helped raise our profile and contributed to our highest points total in over two decades. If anything he's been the main stay in a team that is now getting referred to as a nothing team. 
Agree wholeheartedly with that last bit. 

Oh come on Pete , first you say he’s crap and non of the big boys would be interested in him, in come PSG and you say it’s all paper talk, then they put 2 bids in and so you question his attitude , intimating that he would throw his toys out of the pram and sulk, because he wanted to go. He comes out says he will knuckle down and work even harder in the hope they come back in and you are now trying to make that into a negative 
 

The Pep point is a good one. They went on a winning run at the end of the season but there was a point (around now) when people thought his style of play wouldnt work in the league. His signings had gone a bit cold and they werent at the level that many people were expecting. If I remember rightly he even changed to 5 at the back which was almost unheard of at the time.
He gradually started changing things, results started to come in the spring and the team gained confidence. They replaced the dead wood with players they needed to make his tactics work and they havent looked back since. If the best manager in the world with one of the best squads in the world can have a bit of a wobble then I am sure we can be a bit patient ourselves and give time to Silva to see if he can go on a winning run of his own. 

Exactly. Saying 'the manager should be doing better, let's sack him' is just the easy reaction. The harder conclusion is that we have spent a lot of money on players who either aren't good enough, don't have the right mentality or don't fit together as a team. That's a tough one for fans to take coz that takes time to sort out. 
I don't know if Silva is the man to lead that job yet. I'm not going to give pretend positives, but I firmly believe any manager deserves more than two thirds of a season before they are judged. And I do not buy for one moment the 'he brought in 6 players, he's responsible' argument. Last summer was a very rushed transfer market for him and Brands to work in, they hardly had any time to assess the squad. He didn't bring in Walcott, Tosun, Keane, Schneiderlin and all the other waste of money crap that got sent out on loan, he didn't spend £45m on a playmaker who doesn't seem to fit into any tactical system. 
Again, I'm not arguing that Silva will be the answer. But the 'we' re losing games, sack the manager' equation is far too simplistic in this case, not to mention premature. 

@pete0 made it easy for you in return. I shouldn't have to say any more than the above, but I'll even give you some notable examples.
Pep Guardiola in his first season at Man City, who you might recall oversaw the previous season's champions thumped 4-0 by Ronald Koeman's side. 
Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool, who for a couple of seasons oversaw an absolute shambles of a defence. 
Ferguson at Man Utd, who took four years to win a trophy at Man Utd and was famously reported to be close to getting the sack the season they won the Cup their league form was so bad. 
Our very own Howard Kendall, who was in a similar position months before we won the cup in 1984.
To draw a line under this, I completely understand your argument - we've seen no improvement this season from a manager who has had the benefit of several summer signings, and from what you've seen of the way we're playing you think it's enough to pull the trigger and sack him. I just don't agree. 
Now you are perfectly entitled to disagree with my opinion. But for you to come out with shit like 'it's half an argument' and 'you're not being clear', I think you're just being a twat. It's an opinion anyway, why would I need to back it up with any sort of evidence? 
What is more, despite what you claim, the fact that you keep coming back to this like a dog to a shitty stick suggests you very much are trying to 'win' the argument. So you know what - you have this one, give yourself a pat on the back, write a note in the little diary of online forum victories you keep for yourself, celebrate with a wank if you like. Whatever you need to make yourself feel good pal. 
Now can we give this thread back for what it is intended for, please? 

Exactly. Saying 'the manager should be doing better, let's sack him' is just the easy reaction. The harder conclusion is that we have spent a lot of money on players who either aren't good enough, don't have the right mentality or don't fit together as a team. That's a tough one for fans to take coz that takes time to sort out. 
I don't know if Silva is the man to lead that job yet. I'm not going to give pretend positives, but I firmly believe any manager deserves more than two thirds of a season before they are judged. And I do not buy for one moment the 'he brought in 6 players, he's responsible' argument. Last summer was a very rushed transfer market for him and Brands to work in, they hardly had any time to assess the squad. He didn't bring in Walcott, Tosun, Keane, Schneiderlin and all the other waste of money crap that got sent out on loan, he didn't spend £45m on a playmaker who doesn't seem to fit into any tactical system. 
Again, I'm not arguing that Silva will be the answer. But the 'we' re losing games, sack the manager' equation is far too simplistic in this case, not to mention premature. 

Exactly. Saying 'the manager should be doing better, let's sack him' is just the easy reaction. The harder conclusion is that we have spent a lot of money on players who either aren't good enough, don't have the right mentality or don't fit together as a team. That's a tough one for fans to take coz that takes time to sort out. 
I don't know if Silva is the man to lead that job yet. I'm not going to give pretend positives, but I firmly believe any manager deserves more than two thirds of a season before they are judged. And I do not buy for one moment the 'he brought in 6 players, he's responsible' argument. Last summer was a very rushed transfer market for him and Brands to work in, they hardly had any time to assess the squad. He didn't bring in Walcott, Tosun, Keane, Schneiderlin and all the other waste of money crap that got sent out on loan, he didn't spend £45m on a playmaker who doesn't seem to fit into any tactical system. 
Again, I'm not arguing that Silva will be the answer. But the 'we' re losing games, sack the manager' equation is far too simplistic in this case, not to mention premature. 

All these calls that Silva hasn’t got the experience to get us out of this rot and then followed with “get arteta in” are ridiculous.

You've proven my point perfectly. Because we've spent £250m in 3 years, fans are falling into the trap of thinking our squad has to be top class and it must be the manager. 
Go look at the squad we had in 03/04 - we had better centre backs, better central midfielders and better strikers than we do now. We were awful that season, and yeah, Moyes was getting panned. We finished fourth the season after. 
All this 'Silva out' stuff, sorry its just knnejerk rubbish from fans that need to blame someone for their club going through the wringer. If after another summer of rebuilding what I see as a rubbish squad we are still in this position come November, I'll be joining the calls for his head. But 7 months in I find calling for him to be sacked fucking ridiculous. 

You've proven my point perfectly. Because we've spent £250m in 3 years, fans are falling into the trap of thinking our squad has to be top class and it must be the manager. 
Go look at the squad we had in 03/04 - we had better centre backs, better central midfielders and better strikers than we do now. We were awful that season, and yeah, Moyes was getting panned. We finished fourth the season after. 
All this 'Silva out' stuff, sorry its just knnejerk rubbish from fans that need to blame someone for their club going through the wringer. If after another summer of rebuilding what I see as a rubbish squad we are still in this position come November, I'll be joining the calls for his head. But 7 months in I find calling for him to be sacked fucking ridiculous. 

I don’t get how you can slam Gana for being a shit footballer ( technically ) and yet praise Walcott?

At the moment, it's absolutely ambition rather than reality. We've lost ground on where we were 5 years ago. 

Where the fuck do you start... 
From where I'm sat we're a big standard midtable squad. As Bailey says, we can't even put out a first XI of genuine top 10 Premiership players. It's the kind of squad which, if things started to slide, you could easily see us getting dragged into a relegation battle. 
I'd be gutted if we only make one or two signings in the summer. But I also understand another summer of huge upheaval would be dangerous, and besides, there doesn't seem to be any more cash forthcoming. I think Brands first job will be clearing all the crap on loan, trying to recoup what he can for the likes of Schneiderlin and Bolasie and getting them off the wage bill. 
I think we have to focus on the spine of the team. Kenny deserves a chance at RB and can at least do a job until Jan or summer 2020. We're overloaded with wingers/forwards without having a main striker, especially if Vlasic gets rehabilitated and we finally sort Onyekuru's visa. So I'd be looking:
CB: Pass on Zouma and go all out for a real leader in there, potential captain material. I don't like Keane and Mina could yet prove another huge mistake, but I think with a proper organiser and Holgate/one of the U23 CBs who are getting good reviews as back up we'd see an improvement. 
CM: I'd take up the Gomes option as I do think he's a very good footballer, just been inconsistent. I like him but I'd take the PSG money for Gana if it's still there, then reinvest it into more of an all rounder, someone physical and mobile who can still pass. Ideally I'd sign a third CM as I think we're really weak there but I doubt there'd be money for that. 
CF: Well that's the easiest one, we just need a proper goalscorer. I still think DCL is good enough as back up, but I'd sell Tosun and reinvest in a cheaper, younger prospect. 
If money was an issue I'd consider selling Walcott to fund the above. I also think the elephant in the room is Sigurdsson, he's too much of a luxury player for our needs right now and doesn't seem to fit any system other than the old fashioned 4-4-2 Iceland play (OK he did well at Swansea too but they built a team around letting him play). If we could get £30m+ for him from Germany or somewhere I'd consider selling. But that's maybe one for a future transfer window. Realistically, I don't see the full turn around of this squad to be complete until August 2020.

Where the fuck do you start... 
From where I'm sat we're a big standard midtable squad. As Bailey says, we can't even put out a first XI of genuine top 10 Premiership players. It's the kind of squad which, if things started to slide, you could easily see us getting dragged into a relegation battle. 
I'd be gutted if we only make one or two signings in the summer. But I also understand another summer of huge upheaval would be dangerous, and besides, there doesn't seem to be any more cash forthcoming. I think Brands first job will be clearing all the crap on loan, trying to recoup what he can for the likes of Schneiderlin and Bolasie and getting them off the wage bill. 
I think we have to focus on the spine of the team. Kenny deserves a chance at RB and can at least do a job until Jan or summer 2020. We're overloaded with wingers/forwards without having a main striker, especially if Vlasic gets rehabilitated and we finally sort Onyekuru's visa. So I'd be looking:
CB: Pass on Zouma and go all out for a real leader in there, potential captain material. I don't like Keane and Mina could yet prove another huge mistake, but I think with a proper organiser and Holgate/one of the U23 CBs who are getting good reviews as back up we'd see an improvement. 
CM: I'd take up the Gomes option as I do think he's a very good footballer, just been inconsistent. I like him but I'd take the PSG money for Gana if it's still there, then reinvest it into more of an all rounder, someone physical and mobile who can still pass. Ideally I'd sign a third CM as I think we're really weak there but I doubt there'd be money for that. 
CF: Well that's the easiest one, we just need a proper goalscorer. I still think DCL is good enough as back up, but I'd sell Tosun and reinvest in a cheaper, younger prospect. 
If money was an issue I'd consider selling Walcott to fund the above. I also think the elephant in the room is Sigurdsson, he's too much of a luxury player for our needs right now and doesn't seem to fit any system other than the old fashioned 4-4-2 Iceland play (OK he did well at Swansea too but they built a team around letting him play). If we could get £30m+ for him from Germany or somewhere I'd consider selling. But that's maybe one for a future transfer window. Realistically, I don't see the full turn around of this squad to be complete until August 2020.

Managers cannot control what players actually do on the pitch. They can coach them, explain tactics to them to get them playing together in a certain way, motivate them and so on. But when it comes to a ball being flung into the box, a manager can't do anything about a player not tracking a runner, or being a split second too late in their decision making, or not fancying getting an arm in the face from the big centre half with a run on them. And so what if 50% of the defence and midfield were Silva signings? (it was only two v Wolves actually). That doesn't stop the players we saw being shite last season not being good enough, and imo Zouma was a bit of a last gasp stop gap because Silva and Brands had nowhere near long enough to make the changes to the squad that are really needed. 
But I get it Palf, your agenda is Silva out and you believe a new man at the helm will result in some miraculous up turn in fortunes. I'll be gutted if this same set of players are turning out for us in a year's time, whoever the manager is. 

But when some of the players haven't performed great under two, three, even four managers, it makes sense to start questioning whether they might not be the problem. 

Its the players attitude that is the problem. They dont attack the ball and its incredibly naive to think man marking would change anything. Its not a difficult concept, they just have to attack the ball when it comes in their zone, exactly the same way they should if the ball comes near their man in a man-marking system. 
Its the same attitude from set pieces that led to Coleman rolling a timid pass to Lookman on his heels leading to the 3rd goal.

We have far bigger problems than a 20 year old who should really only be playing off the bench at this stage of his career. 

We have far bigger problems than a 20 year old who should really only be playing off the bench at this stage of his career.